Do you get a faster SV on Deity or Immortal?

J

Johnpecan

Warlord
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Jan 16, 2008
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I'm an immortal player. I've always been amazed by how early people are getting SV wins on deity. I recently got my first deity win and my SV was actually faster than my immortal.

I assume this is because on Immortal my RAs return less (slower ai tech rate) as well as espionage is near worthless for stealing techs later in the game when I have surpassed the AI in tech.

So my question is, was my fast SV deity win a fluke or do you generally get faster SV victories on deity compared to immortal for the reasons above?
 
As long as you're a good diplomat and don't start next to Shaka then Deity will be faster.

1. RA more worthwhile
2. Early external trade routes leaking beakers to human due to AI starting techs (+ extra city)
3. Discount on techs already researched (when you know someone who has it)
4. More likely for espionage to be worth while.
 
I think there's a good chance that Deity can be faster at the extremes, but Immortal is probably faster on average. On Immortal it's easier to expand (either through Settlers or taking cities), easier to bully the AI into giving you gold, easier to get wonders, and easier to win the World's Fair. Ideological unhappiness is also much less likely to be a factor.

If you get a Deity map where you can get all the expansion spots you want and the AIs don't attack you, then the things Joncunn mentions (plus more Workers to steal) could give the edge to Deity. But I think Immortal is faster under more common, non-optimal conditions.
 
Manpanzee said:
I think there's a good chance that Deity can be faster at the extremes, but Immortal is probably faster on average. On Immortal it's easier to expand (either through Settlers or taking cities), easier to bully the AI into giving you gold, easier to get wonders, and easier to win the World's Fair. Ideological unhappiness is also much less likely to be a factor.

If you get a Deity map where you can get all the expansion spots you want and the AIs don't attack you, then the things Joncunn mentions (plus more Workers to steal) could give the edge to Deity. But I think Immortal is faster under more common, non-optimal conditions.
Click to expand...

I believe the user ability level makes a big difference on a lot of these things. If you are winning faster than turn 220 with Science, you aren't going after world wonders (and you'd have a chance at the couple that matter), as most don't help much. Ideology pressure is far less if you are winning faster. Getting good city locations, is a matter of building them soon, which can promote a faster victory anyways.

I personally am not quite that fast, and from my point of view, you are right, but for the better players, I think he has a point.
 
I'm not really sure. Immortal allows easier time with wonders and religion and you don't have to deal with as much land denial by the AI. You will also have an easier time with CS quests. On the other hand the AI on deity hooks luxuries faster, has more gold and make better RA (though I'd estimate the difference to be of minor importance) and you'll easily steal a couple of techs.
 
joncnunn said:
As long as you're a good diplomat and don't start next to Shaka then Deity will be faster.

1. RA more worthwhile
2. Early external trade routes leaking beakers to human due to AI starting techs (+ extra city)
3. Discount on techs already researched (when you know someone who has it)
4. More likely for espionage to be worth while.
Click to expand...

Good points, 2 things I missed.

Also to clarify, I'm not claiming deity is easier to win than immortal (obviously), only talking about how when you do win you have more potential for a faster win on deity compared to immortal.
 
That Deity gold though can be used to practically buy your whole spaceship if you can stay friendly with 2 or 3 civs. If you hand pick some peaceful civs and throw in a Genghis to grab all the hate you can take a lot of gold from them.
 
If you do start next to Shaka on Diety what options do you have for keeping the peace? Is it best to give him a free luxury & send a trade route?
 
Redaxe said:
If you do start next to Shaka on Diety what options do you have for keeping the peace? Is it best to give him a free luxury & send a trade route?
Click to expand...

Against Shaka, none at all, he'd love to auto pillage your caravan / cargo ship. Just go early into Archery to build some Archers. Might be a good idea to cash rush walls in the border city as well.

If he had been around in G&K you'd sell all your luxuries to him for 240 gold upfront each knowing that he'll break the deal early.

And pretty much with him starting next to him, your new goal on Deity after survival would actually be to win before an AI on the other landmass launches the spaceship.
 
This is going off-topic somewhat, but I've had success against Shaka of late by DoW-ing him on sight (provided he is the first AI I meet), then just going full Honour and building units to take him down before he can get too many cities.

TLDR: You can still get a SV later if you war early on ;)
 
I think he meant turn 320(on standard pace), because 220 is pretty much impossible.
Generally the benchmark for Spaceship rush is around turn 300.
 
Yep, around 300 or later but sometimes science runaway AI can win around 270 or so. I haven't seen any faster than that.
 
sun8119 said:
Yep, around 300 or later but sometimes science runaway AI can win around 270 or so. I haven't seen any faster than that.
Click to expand...

I started a thread a few months ago inquiring into how quickly an AI had achieved a SV. Earliest I have encountered (albeit I don't play Diety that often) was Shaka of all people. He had 5 parts by turn 283, and while I rush bought with Freedom to win, I'm assuming he'd have won within a few turns.
 
Redaxe said:
If you do start next to Shaka on Diety what options do you have for keeping the peace? Is it best to give him a free luxury & send a trade route?
Click to expand...

Bribe him away. I don't see enough ppl talk about DoW bribing. A lot of players complain about having Shaka as their neighbour and having to build units and what not but you can always just bribe. There are some cases when he won't accept the deal but he will attack anyone for like 5gpt.
 
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