TSG90 After Actions

Welcome to the TSG90 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.

Please use the Civ5 game submission page to submit your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.).

- How did the AI civs factor into your game?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- Did Greece's unique traits factor into your Culture game plan? If so, how?
- How did you adjust your strategy to account for the map type in this Culture game?

Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences (please state if the game is a replay). Please refrain from posting videos until the deadline for submission is over.

Would be interested to hear any thoughts on game setup.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-15 19:46:26
Reference number: 31403
Your name: glory7
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1270AD
Turns played: 187
Base score: 1104
Final score: 2983
Time played: 3:00:00
Submitted save: glory7_gotm90_0187 AD-1270.Civ5Save
Renamed file: glory7_C509001.Civ5Save

details will be added later.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-15 22:11:32
Reference number: 31405
Your name: Monthar
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1914AD
Turns played: 334
Base score: 1627
Final score: 2465
Time played: 6:37:00
Submitted save: TSG90_Cultural_Victory.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Monthar_C509001.Civ5Save

After getting screwed on both SS and buy any GP reformations, I probably should have just geared up for war and killed all but the lowest culture civ, then I probably would have finished closer to 200.

cannot upload SS for unknown reason - will try again tomorrow.

I replayed map with tradition 3 cities approach - and the result was surprisingly similar: t190.

glory7 said:

Game: Civ5 GOTM
Your name: glory7
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1270AD
Turns played: 187

details will be added later.

Click to expand...

Wow. Looking forward to the details.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-16 01:47:54
Reference number: 31407
Your name: Mutineer
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1800AD
Turns played: 270
Base score: 1999
Final score: 3701
Time played: 9:16:00
Submitted save: Alexander_0270 AD-1800.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Mutineer_C509001.Civ5Save


Continent domination tradition-aesthetic-freedom

I did follow my predesignate plan, but I wander it straight domination was fastest way... One cal always win culturally with last civ on 1 city Ai sims suck on this map, in my test games Ai was more resilient by some reason.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-16 06:10:00
Reference number: 31410
Your name: uralis
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1410AD
Turns played: 201
Base score: 1256
Final score: 3140
Time played: 5:18:00

Archaeologists were not needed here. I think because of Archaeology I lost 10-15t.

glory7 said:

cannot upload SS for unknown reason - will try again tomorrow.

I replayed map with tradition 3 cities approach - and the result was surprisingly similar: t190.

Click to expand...

Seems you got the submission screen in your prior post so I'm curious if you were having submission issues. When you say 'SS' do you mean some screenshots or the Sacred Sites finish?

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-16 12:35:32
Reference number: 31411
Your name: geolawyerman
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1854AD
Turns played: 297
Base score: 1045
Final score: 1771
Time played: 3:40:00
Submitted save: Alexander_0297 AD-1854.Civ5Save
Renamed file: geolawyerman_C509001.Civ5Save

I should've focused on tech more-I had hotels by t250. 2 city tradition, aesthetics, rationalism, autocracy. I played peaceful except for using the autocracy tourism boost with civs at war with a common foe.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-16 17:35:37
Reference number: 31413
Your name: Olodune
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1625AD
Turns played: 235

Awkward game -- learned some lessons here


Edit: Based on the glory & uralis (unless SS?) I think I am probably going too deep into the tech tree. Curious to learn more. Just focus on early guilds and Great Work generation with Theming bonus, perhaps? 2-3 City Trad makes more sense in this context. I'm guessing for pre-200 wins you need less than 80 base Tourism ...

I went back to look at my game and see that I did go the Steel -> Fertilizer line before Refrigeration. With a cleaner opening and better tech prioritization I think you can reach Refrigeration much earlier, t170ish maybe? So maybe I just played poorly

Finished T181 with SS

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-16 19:08:43
Reference number: 31415
Your name: Acken
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1210AD
Turns played: 181
Base score: 1098
Final score: 3050
Time played: 2:13:00
Submitted save: TSG90_Win.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Acken_C509001.Civ5Save

Click to expand...

Screenshots:


World at victory 1/4

World at victory 2/4

World at victory 3/4

World at victory 4/4

Culture progress, highest is Ethiopia at 3376

As I said on announcement I'm fairly convinced fastest strategy is SS. You just have to do a slow detour through NC because astronomy to make it work and I guess hoping to not get your stuff picked before you. King also allows for early wonders.

Opening:
Capital went scout monument shrine worker granary GL StoneHenge NC Settlers x2 Caravan x2 (bought archer)
First expo went Library Monment Shrine Granary Oracle
2nd expo went Monument Shrine Temple (bought granary) 2x Trireme
Every other cities will go Shrine Temple Monument, Monument first until reformation

Techs(obvious): Potery, Writing (free Mining), Masonry, Archery, Calendar (free Philosophy), AH, Wheel, Education, Astronomy

Ruins gave me: Tech(mining), Pop, Gold, Map. I delayed the south ruin at T20 in hopes I get faith but I got a stupid map.


T24 Steal a Moroccan worker

This is continent so only one scout and I want fast shrine anyway. Like most SS strategy I aim for Liberty first then into Piety up to reformation. Map is full of cultural CS and we play Alexander so I expect good timing for reformation. If no cultural CS I might have delayed collective rule/republic and went first into Piety. One is usually enough and we have 3 on this map, so yay. Oracle is an obvious must have. I got Reformation T100, only one AI had already taken it and lucky me it was Jesuit Education.

So since its King GL is usually available. I finished it T47, grabbed philosophy and while Liberty free expansion was finishing library I grabbed Stonehenge. After a few tests grabbing both these wonders on King felt a distinct possibility. GL goes away fast on King but stonehenge not as much and I got it T60 after GL.



T47 and T60 GL and Stonehenge

Religion:
A quick shrine allowed for an early enough pantheon and Stone circle was the obvious choice: 4 faith in capital, 6 faith in first expo, 2 in second expo.

I was able to grab a worker from Morroco which I used with mine to improve quarry as fast as possible. With Stonehenge this quickly made me rise in the 13-15 fpt area and I got a prophet fast enough. Since my Fpt was good, I then generated a second to be sure to grab the beliefs I wanted. Mosques first (probably best building for this strategy) and then Pagoda (other very good choice is Monastery which may even be superior if you can handle happiness). I took the 100gold founder belief and religious texts.


1st Prophet

2nd Prophet

After that I generated a mosque and then a missionary. From there religion spread almost naturally and I just spam mosques and pagoda (mosque first).

At T110 I grabbed Borobodur to give the needed boost and free gold I needed just before I start spamming cities.


T100 Reformation

T110 Borobodur

Other civ strategy:

T130 Astronomy

I got Astronomy T130. I rushed a university in Athens (only univ I'll build) and worked the 2 slots, with the already accumulated points from GL I got a fast first GS which I used to bulb Astronomy (or half of it rather since my bpt was really low and I was already getting hurt hard by the tech cost penatly from extra cities).

I upgraded my 2 triremes and rush bought a 3rd Caravel. These went in opposite directions unveiling the 5 other civs. As soon as I met them I got open borders (I also OB with the 2 at home). Highest cultural ended up being Sejong, Genghis and Haile. Gengis probably was high due to having conquered Sweden.

I rush bought a cargo toward Sejong, planted a city near gengis and near Haile and sent both a Caravan. I made sure no AI was allied to a cultural CS.

Sejong and Haile will be the last 2 AI to be influenced at T180 and T181 respectively.

Spamming cities:
I stayed at 4 cities up to around education. After Borobodur and Oracle my 2 main cities started spamming settlers (until end of game) and I started to plant some between education and astronomy. Strong pressure and Morocco being completely converted (borobodur) insured all cities were quickly converted to my religion.

I planted a total of 25 cities over the game. 3 of them being useless. I lost one of those 3 to Babylon angry for my forward settle. Anyway, none of these 3 got my religion (they were there just in case I needed them in which case I'd have created a missionary). 1 other didn't get my religion but it was useful for a route toward Gengis.

Obviously you'll want to save space to plant as much as possible and I used the little east islands to make 4 or 5 cities there. Planting on luxuries also help happiness.

Being able to ally my neighbour CS I was in positive happiness most of the game. Capial will also build writer guild and artist guild for extra tourism. I basically stopped growing after 10pop.

Errors:
I made a large mistake at the end. Should have researched acoustics instead of guilds. This would have allowed me to generate a musician (or 2 ???) for a faster finish, cutting some turns. I stupidly made an artist for the work of art, which is clearly inferior.

Also I should probably have invested into Aesthetics to try to reach the bonus to routes/OB. Doubt I would have reached those but at least I would have gotten faster GW/GA. I instead went Exploration and right Liberty... meh. Exploration helped meeting civs but it was probably overkill and I doubt I really needed the 5 happiness I got from lib.

I thought upgrading to caravel cost more than that. Should have just made a third trireme.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-17 01:29:20
Reference number: 31418
Your name: Bleidraner
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1924AD
Turns played: 344
Base score: 2158
Final score: 3173
Time played: 11:28:00
Submitted save: GOTMJulyAlex_0344 AD-1924.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Bleidraner_C509001.Civ5Save

I have created a veritable piece of dung of a game. And on my VERY FIRST GOTM submission, just great.

Tried for SS, failed to get the second faith building due to late second prophet.

Unfortunately by that time I had already city spammed as got the SS reformation belief from piety (Alex is awesome at allying cult CSs) BEFORE the second prophet. Thinking back, my mistake was build order, did not include shrines early enough, had zero faith by turn 60, not even a pantheon, so late religion and follower belief with the logical consequences.

After that - with poor tech and a LOT of small cities, including cap - I tried to recover but changed plans too many times and that led to the 344 turn time.

The multiple strategies after SS failure:

1. Delayed Astro so I could clean my continent without diplo hits (really bad idea). This included DoWing friends. I was 1 turn away from killing Haille's cap, last city in the continent, when Indonesia discovered me. Peace treaty to avoid the warmonger hit and that's when I discovered that the diplo hit of DoWing a friend does carries over. Just great. 100 trying to become friends with the other guys. Should have taken Haille out and dealt with the consequences.

2. Tried to tech hard then, but by then it was way too late, with a crap capital and too many cities, and of course no friends and RAs. Korea was running away and wonder spamming, my spies kept getting killed and it took me another 150 turns to catch up with them in tech, which I achieved at airports. Won a couple of turns later, gifting one of my useless cities near the cap to Korea to save myself the trip and bombing with three faith bought musicians.
Anyway, many lessons learned. I'll do better next time.

Acken said:

Finished T181 with SS

Click to expand...

Your UI looks way different. What mod are you running?

Game: Civ5 GOTM 90
Date submitted: 2014-07-17 20:10:37
Reference number: 31420
Your name: erisiamk
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1680AD
Turns played: 246
Base score: 1330
Final score: 2714
Time played: 2:51:00
Submitted save: TSG90_Start.Civ5Save
Renamed file: erisiamk_C509001.Civ5Save

Not the absolute quickest victory in the world, but I'm still very proud of it. This is easily 100 turns earlier than any of my other Culture Victories...

Eventually settled a third city to the south of Athens as the spot up north got ruined by troll city state growth and I didn't fancy conquering one due to the increased Policy costs. Needed the city for coastal Trade Routes regardless of how crap it was. Policy wise I ended up going to Scholasticism, which didn't really pay off on this difficulty, providing about the same as Rationalism opener at the finish. If I avoided the Patronage tree I could have reached Media Culture and Aesthetics finisher much more quickly I reckon...

Got World Religion at the second session around turn 230, just in time for about 4 Great Musicians from Guilds/Faith/Broadway. Divine Inspiration proved an okay choice, giving me enough Faith for two Great Musicians due to Wonder spam + Stone Circles alone. I get the feeling I should have started the Musician's Guild earlier, as I only had one natural Musician before the finish and I could have used the extra Great Works to get my Tourism machine going earlier. If I pushed World Religion at the first session, I would have been able to pull it off due to Oxfording Radio before the vote... will definitely have to play this again to avoid making all these mistakes.

Monthar said:

Your UI looks way different. What mod are you running?

Click to expand...

Hello its an UI developed by bc1, you can find it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=512263

It is 100% save game compatible (since it doesn't make modification to them) and only changes the UI. It's mostly a try at condensing all the information available in other menus right on the main screen.
-Mostly useful for stuff from the diplomacy menus, displaying on screen what AI has to sell and how much gold they have.
-It also has some other neat additional information displayed, like the number of turns before Policy, faith buy and displaying what luxuries are required for WLTKD without entering city screen. You can also just mouseover a city to see border expansions, again reducing the need to go into the city screen
-Production queues use a different design with everything in 1 menu. No more faith/gold menu, it uses a small button when you want to rush buy something. Everything is also smaller reducing the length of the list of available constructions.

It should get some other improvements in the future. I've been using it for a few months and will never look back. Not having to click through the diplomacy menu 2 times per turn is a deliverance for me.

@Acken

To me, that looks like a clinic on how to go about a sacred sites culture victory on continents. Nice. My preconception was that King might be a crossover point where SS starts to fail/struggle. Now I think differently. If you can get the Reformation belief how high can this work? Is getting SS & Pagodas/Mosques the main "problem" with this approach on Emp/Imm? I suppose finding city spots gets harder too ...

Nope it is still risky, I try to have similar game by replaying map. I made 2 attempts, in first, the only AI who got reformation before me took SS (in his game that ai take education), IN second game Ai clean up all failt buildings before I got second prophet.

He just got very lucky.

Mutineer said:

Nope it is still risky, I try to have similar game by replaying map. [...]

Click to expand...

Maybe. Unlike myself, Acken has the base knowledge and mechanics to compete for the win. Beating glory, etc, necessarily requires a few gambles when going for a single fastest finish, imho. SS viability increases the likelihood that the winner will flip a few "heads" AND play a rock solid game.

Good & robust gameplay is harder to measure.

Well I've replayed the map once since then and SS was again available after T100, it was also available for glory7. So I wouldn't say I was "very" lucky. Sure there's some amount of luck involved but it's not like it's exceptional. Taking 2 faith buildings out of 4 by turn 84 while also involving some luck, is not exceptional. And in another TSG there was someone getting great library very late, etc, etc.

But the thing is that if you want a fast finish on culture King you are forced to go SS. If it fails I'd just rage quit because there's no coming back (in a competitive way). And if I want a competitive rank I just have to try it because I'm convinced it's the fastest way (can probably reach T170 on this map).
A discussion in another thread should prove that I don't particularly like random elements either (which is why I'm against ancient ruins for example) but when the choice is Culture-King that's just the game we're going to play and the gamble I'm forced to take. I'd be all happy to play a "no-SS" game but I think the gotm mods have spoken against artificial rules and this map is probably an attempt by them to reduce the likelihood of it happening (continents) through the map rather than rules. If we were playing at Emperor or Immortal, hotels is probably a better bet.

Playing tradition + hotels is certainly safer but you'll have trouble getting below T190 so that means you then hope other people trying SS are not lucky... So in a sense you're just making the other part of the gamble, you're gambling that SS doesn't work for others (if you're interest is in getting a top3).

Olodune said:

@Acken

To me, that looks like a clinic on how to go about a sacred sites culture victory on continents. Nice. My preconception was that King might be a crossover point where SS starts to fail/struggle. Now I think differently. If you can get the Reformation belief how high can this work? Is getting SS & Pagodas/Mosques the main "problem" with this approach on Emp/Imm? I suppose finding city spots gets harder too ...

Click to expand...

City spots shouldn't be too much of an issue. The biggest problem at higher difficulty is that you don't get the beliefs yes but with very good pantheon and or natural wonder you should be able to get 2 buildings. Then you cross your fingers for SS.
After playing that game I also think you can skip collective rule for faster piety. It will take time before you spam settlers anyway due to needing astronomy so you can grab collective rule later and go 3 city at first. Like 1 or 2 into liberty, then reformation, then collective rule. Or even tradition maybe. Faster Piety should give reformation faster if needed. Pangea SS however most certainly needs fast collective rule.

Also AI make more culture on these levels. Emperor should be okay but I think I've seen some AI on immortal reaching 10K culture at T200.