Walls

puglover · Dec 22, 2002

I think Walls stink in Civ 3. To make it more realistic, walls should be an object Workers build like in Age of Empires. It would take several turns for a unit to destroy a wall. And a unit defending across a wall would have a big, juicy defense bonus. What do you think? :confused:

dguichar · Dec 22, 2002

...this was already discussed in another thread.

Plus... i personally really got bored of AoE really quickly.

Keep civilized

David

Alpine Trooper · Dec 22, 2002

Sounds cool, but they'd only need be good for the first era. After that you start getting into gun powder. Tanks ignore walls. :nuke:

Willem · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by Alpine Trooper
Tanks ignore walls.

Not entirely, they would probably still slow them down. They'd either have to go around them, or stop and blast a hole to go through, which would probably create a lot of rubble to drive over.

That might make a nice addition to a wall's capabilities actually, Tanks, etc. lose one movement point when attacking a walled city.

puglover · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by Alpine Trooper
Sounds cool, but they'd only need be good for the first era. After that you start getting into gun powder. Tanks ignore walls.

Yeah. All walls would be obselete at the discovery of Meteurallegy. (the cannon tech)

fidelcastro · Dec 22, 2002

I think walls are useless because the whole fight system is...

GerrardCapashen · Dec 22, 2002

I feel the walls as they are are better than the way you would like to change them to. Although I do wish the Great Wall gave you walls in all your cities. Then it would actually be a moderately useful wonder instead of a totally worthless one.

Willem · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
Although I do wish the Great Wall gave you walls in all your cities.

If that's your wish, it's very easy to make it come true in the editor. I agree, as it is now the Great Wall is pretty much useless.

GerrardCapashen · Dec 22, 2002

I know, but I like to play the normal version because then I can discuss strategy with other players and have it make sense. Maybe soon I will find enough things I wish were changed that I will finally give up and mod my game. Can you have your modified version and standard PTW 1.14 exist on your computer simultaneously, or do you have to change everything back and forth in the editor every time you wish to change between game types?

farting bob · Dec 22, 2002

tanks do not slow down walls, like willem said.
have you seen goldeneye?

GerrardCapashen · Dec 22, 2002

I have seen Goldeneye, and it's pretty hard for a tank to climb over the ruins and rubble of a 15-foot high, 5 foot thick wall. It depends on the construction of the wall, modern ones could give tanks serious problems, while them would ram right through ancient walls. But I don't feel that walls are an important enough part of the game to merit such serious attention to detail.

gugalpm · Dec 22, 2002

The battle system sucks, the bonus for big cities sucks...
All should work like civ2... no bonus for cities' size. Only bonus from city walls...

WillJ · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by farting bob
tanks do not slow down walls

Of course not, walls don't even move!

And here's my proposal for walls: when a unit comes by one, it either has to wait one turn and then attack (simulating a delay caused by manuveuring around the wall), wait a few, maybe three, turns to destroy the wall and then attack, or just attack, with the defensive unit getting a 50% bonus.

Edit: And IMO walls shouldn't become obselete with the discovery of Meteurallegy; instead, artillery units should ignore them. Also, I don't think a wall's effects should vanish when the town becomes a city; instead, the defensive bonuses for cities and metropolises should be toned down.

Willem · Dec 23, 2002

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
I know, but I like to play the normal version because then I can discuss strategy with other players and have it make sense. Maybe soon I will find enough things I wish were changed that I will finally give up and mod my game. Can you have your modified version and standard PTW 1.14 exist on your computer simultaneously, or do you have to change everything back and forth in the editor every time you wish to change between game types?

Yes, you just save it as a scenario, then use the Load Scenario option on the start screen. It's highly recommended that you do it this way. Strange things can happen when you start modding.

Willem · Dec 23, 2002

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
But I don't feel that walls are an important enough part of the game to merit such serious attention to detail.

That's just the problem though, as they are now they're pretty much useless. I rarely bother with them, unless I have nothing else to build. It would be nice to make them a bit more useful.

Ozymandias · Dec 24, 2002

Gunpowder made ancient and medieval walls obsolete. Period. End of story. First of all, they were simply too thin -- and nobody over-built them in anticipation of cannons being invented.

-- HOWEVER, with other advancements in construction, you have the introduction of star-shaped citadels etc. whose origination is mainly associated with the French military engineer Vauban. It was against such walls that the English and French had such fun at Sevastopol during the Crimean War. Indeed, the epitome of the "Vauban Wall" was Verdun or one of its WWI contemporaries -- nice thick walls (although ultimately vulnerable to the very-limited availabilty Krupps 240mm seige guns, as amply demonstrated in Belgium in 1914), sophisticated overlapping fields of fire, etc.

So, two types of walls -- "ancient" and "Vauban".

Besiegingly Yours,

Oz

acjvanv · Dec 24, 2002

Why not make the wall upgradable through time.
Perhaps have the ability to add a moat.
That would justify another defense bonus on top of the 50%.

Just a thought

puglover · Dec 24, 2002

I got the idea by watching Masada on the History Channel. The Romans built a big stone wall around the Jewish fortress so the Jews could not get out.

Laser guided · Dec 26, 2002

Walls are good in the early game when cities (towns) are small, but the expense that would become associated with having a wall around a city let alone a metropolis makes it border on the ludicrous to even think about upgrading walls. They are realistic.

Walls

puglover

Disturber of Worldviews

dguichar

Warlord

Alpine Trooper

AllCiv

Willem

Deity

puglover

Disturber of Worldviews

fidelcastro

is going to be president

GerrardCapashen

Benalish Master-at-Arms

Willem

Deity

GerrardCapashen

Benalish Master-at-Arms

farting bob

ThEy MaDe Me Do iT.

GerrardCapashen

Benalish Master-at-Arms

gugalpm

Veteran of psychic wars

WillJ

Coolness Connoisseur

Willem

Deity

Willem

Deity

Ozymandias

In Terra Fantasia

acjvanv

Chieftain

puglover

Disturber of Worldviews

Laser guided

Warlord

Similar threads