Top 5 best civs and why.

Shouldnt you pick a Civ and make it work?

But well, if you play on Marathon with that much enemys and no CS, either Huns or Mongolians are not the best to pick for you. Both of them have strength in other ways. Without any CS, Austria or Greece isn't a choice. But i think with both, you can have a nice game. With 45 CS, you can use their UA a lot. Greece can achieve a situation, they never drop any influence and that could be a cool thing.

With that much competitors, i think you need a Civ that isnt just strong as Warmongerer, but has another way to get you ahead. Either Science, Trading, Culture or Faith.

I personally would try a defensive strategy with Korea or Babylon. Try to get a tech advantage and then push out. I did it a few times with Babylon in Vanilla and it worked quite well. But with GnK Composite Bowman and GP changes, i don't know if they are that good anymore. Maybe Korea is a better Civ for that, because you can get better UU. But i haven't played them yet. But the increased strength of the Turtle Ship should do well, if you try a naval focus in that Era.

If you choose trading, i would recommend Netherlands. I really like that type of gameplay and they have an absurdly strong UA and UI. And Sea Beggars are great as well. Arabia would be another strong pick. With the moved Trading Posts, Bazaars got stronger, their Camel Archer got an huge buff and are now very good and their Desert Start Location thing works great with the new wonder Petra and that Desert Folk Belief.

But you asked for a List of five nations. Place 5 would be Babylon. Fourth would be Netherlands, third is China (i really like them a lot ), on second Place Arabia and my first pick would be Songhai.

Some may disagree but i hate playing without their unique features. Biggest problem with GnKs compared to Vanilla is, that Mud Pyramids give fewer culture now, but they have +2 faith instead. Its nice, if you can catch the Holy Warrior Follower Belief. Not that strong, but a nice touch that makes your life a little bit easier. Their UU Mandekalu Cavalery is by far not as strong as Keshiks or the new Camel Archer, but with the increased strength of citys, they doing fine. Songhai now have a bit different promotions as well, check them out!

The best thing about Songhai is River Warlord, which gives you 3x money from pillaging. On big maps on marathon with a lot of barbarians, nothing is better. If boosts your economy so much, that you can build a lot wonder and focus your production on Units, while buying new buildings. That may not be a working of Deity, but that's another story. If you are active, you can pop every 2-3 turns a Encampment. Another nice thing may be, that Africa isn't that full of Civs. Hadn't played it yet but picking a Europe Civ should feet strange, so much competition. Africa is like what, Egypt, Carthage, Ethiopia and Songhai compared to 13 Civs based in Europe?

Well, i don't know if my wall of text helps you in any way but maybe you got a little inspiration for your next game.

Inca is a really powerful Civ with the right terrain. Civ tiles always involve some kind of trade off. Max food, max trade or max production. With Terrace farms you can get max food and 2 hammers off hill tiles. Place those tiles next to river surrounded by a few mountains and it's just an insane amount of food with gold and production bonus.

If you spawn next to a floodplain with desert hill tiles hugging a mountain, throw in Petra as a priority and you just bult yourself a 1 city empire.

Wait there's more. Place your core next to mountains and you also get to build observatories. +1 if you go rationalism route, and insane that 50% science modifier from your capital and core is insanely powerful especially when stacked with National College, Uni, Public Schools.

The other half of their power is half priced roads and free roads on hills. They are a economic power for that reason alone. The units being able to move with no penalty through hills is just a bonus.

Haven't read the other replies, going from memory, in no particular order, and I'm not an uberlevel player like some of these people. That's all the disclaimers.

Austria, for the obvious reason. The greater number of quests and the increased amount of influence received for most of them makes it very easy to get to ally status without spending money, then for 500 gold you have a ready-made city plus units.

Spain. 500 gold per wonder for discovering it first, and with a heavy starting bias towards natural wonders you're usually going to be first to at least one of them...it's like the old Liberty tree but even easier. Then you add in the conquistadors right around the time you're looking for the next wave of expansion and it just gets silly (especially on a Terra map).

Carthage. People who don't like this civ don't understand how insanely powerful it is to have an automatic trading route with every coastal city immediately after founding/conquering. And that's not even taking into account having the best trireme unit in the game, getting an extra hammer from every ocean source immediately, being able to cross mountains...very powerful Civ and extremely well-rounded, too.

England. Two of the best UUs in the game got made even stronger by the new upgrade paths, and then they throw in an extra spy as well. And for anyone who doesn't think that extra spy is huge, count how often you wish you had an extra one in your next game.

Honestly, those are the only ones that I've put enough time into since G&K which I really like. I'm not as big on the Celts or Mayans as many people are (varying playing styles, I suppose) and my attempt with Ethiopia did not go well. I was always a big fan of the Iroquois in vanilla and didn't see any difference now, so I guess I'll make that my 5th one.

EDIT: okay, so for warmongering...I would leave Carthage, England, and (maybe) the Iroquois in there, but swap in the Celts and probably Songhai. But I hardly ever warmonger so there's a good chance I'm wrong.

Carthage is definitely one of the strongest. The UA gives free money all the time (except for a few maps), as well as the ability to cross mountains, allowing for a less tight wave around mountains. The AFE gets even faster GG production than the chinese, and the Quinquereme allows quick conquest of coastal cities. Early game blitzkrieg from the coast to the very center of the map. Your army will also never be too big to be payed.

All good responses guys and gals, thanks alot. It is good to know there is a community here, and valuable information on the game.

I just started a new marathon with England, but im probably going to drop that one. I wanted to try the longbow unit on Prince difficulty, but im just getting hammered. Love how i have been randomly put into africa 13/15 times lol.

I tried the desert pantheon, wondered why i didnt get automatic faith for desert tiles. Then I realized you have to WORK those tiles before getting the faith. When you start out and only have 1-3 citizens, and you dont have the time or money to develop blank desert tiles, it is just not worth it I dont think.

I will probably drop down to difficulty 3, as I cannot seem to maintain money, I Have been attacked by 3 civs before i even hit the classical era, and I probably picked wrong with england.

I think im going to try carthage and I like the inca idea, I might try them as well.

kindrik76 said:

I will probably drop down to difficulty 3, as I cannot seem to maintain money, I Have been attacked by 3 civs before i even hit the classical era, and I probably picked wrong with england.

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Carthage is what you want then. Try them on a sea-based map and you'll be amazed at how easily you can balance your budget.

No love here for Byzantium? Am surprised how badly this civ is underestimated.

And I think Austria is overrated.

No particular order:

Arabia
Songhai
Inca
Austria
England
Ottomans

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Really surprised no one has mentioned the Ottomans yet. You can take any ship on the seas, cheaper ships, Sipahi no longer have a defensive penalty, Janissary is still the best unit in the game and has been upgraded now that you can upgrade longswords into them.

Wow, no one mentioned Egypt?

20% wonder building bonus is huge... Basically allows me to build any wonder. If not every wonder.

And burial tombs gives 2 culture 2 happiness. Bad UU that I never use. If I want to spam wonders no one comes close to Egypt. And since this is Civ, I definitely feel like spamming wonders very often. I'd probably put them #1 for cultural victory potential.

I usually play on Emperor-Deity. On Deity warmongering is the easiest strategy so I like the Aztecs.

Also religion is a gimmicky joke and very hard to get on deity with not so many benefits. I have 22 opponents on going for religion so I really don't focus religion. It's not worth it unless I'm making religion my core strategy, in which case I'd use Byzantium. I'd say that building Pagodas and Mosques is the best effect of religion. Then the "Just war" makes is sort of worth it. You can also add that 34% spread speed as a bonus.

As for the best civ I have to say Aztecs. It's impossible to lose as the Aztecs. I rape all the computers every time and I don't even really need peace... ever. This is deity I'm talking about here.

It's really a joke how good the Aztecs are. I'm always at war and I just leech massive amounts of culture. I get the honor policy tree as soon as I can which is easy and takes almost no time. Then I get gold for all my kills as well as culture.

So right there... In one fell swoop all my economic and cultural issues gone. My only probably is I don't have enough enemies to kill and all the comps annoy the out of me begging me for peace every turn.

Basically the jaguar warriors are the first unit you get, easily spammable, moves easily through forests/jungles, and here is the kicker +25 hp after winning a battle. This upgrade stays through-out the game. So I spam jaguar warriors and just have an epic army which I upgrade at a 33% discount.

Since I'm always at war I don't really care about diplomacy and I make agreements I never honor. So I rob the computers every chance I get diplomatically. (Easy money)

So I basically the Aztecs have no comparison as far as I observed.

I can see how other civs can be better war-mongers like the mongols and the huns but they don't have the economy backing them up like the Aztecs. The Aztec special building give ridunculous (ridiculous) food bonuses which makes it GG. After my war mongering is done and my core cities are set up, I usually have the #1 spot.

Basically a typical game is over after the classical/medieval era when I rush and enemy capital with 4 jaguar warriors + 2-3 archers. I get two good cities fairly fast. I'm stealing workers the whole time while producing my military. I fall behind tech/economy but I quickly catch up as I have more cities/resources. And everyone around me is my feeding my culture.

No one has given me better results or comes close. My only complaint about the Aztecs is the lack or wonders and religion. Which is why I play Egypt/Byzantium. I really want to try the Arabs now after reading this thread, I never thought about their money making potential.

So my top civs:

Cultural - Egypt
War Mongering - Aztec

Religion - Byzantium - Only civ really viable with religion because of the bonus. I also really enjoyed their special units which are both monsters. I ripped everyone apart in my current immortal game and I'm getting like 100 faith a turn converting everyone

Civs I assume are really good:
Persia (Surprised I still haven't played them yet, guess I'm enjoying Egypt too much since they get everything... 150% golden ages? YES PLEASE.)
Mayans (Shrines give 2 science and faith? lol! Free great people? ROFL)
Carthage (Free harbor? Holy ...)
Huns (Battering Rams? Free husbandry and hammers? Holy crap...)
Arabia (Very well rounded, I want to try them)
Austria (Broken ability at the moment, but I still don't like them.)

@KevinJK:
Yes, Austria is a late bloomer, but since I am a builder, that is fine for me. For early conquests one should pick other civs.

Over the weekend I have been playing 2 games with Austria and been doing the following strategy for making insane amounts of cash:

1.Scout and find city states which share borders/are very close to the AI territory. These city states will almost always be allied with those AIs.

2.Have a spy rig a couple of elections and perform a coup. Spy needs to be level 3 and success rate needs to be over 66% - I did 10 coups with success rate of 66% or more and they all went through.

3.Marry off your princess to the rich nobleman (500 gold)

4.Wait 1 turn to get money from dismissing the units(or keep them) and sell the city to the nearby AI for sums of over 3000-4000 in instagold or GPT.

The whole point here is that AIs are willing to spend very large sums for cities that are close to them.

On another note - here is a trick for getting a super early level 3 spy - tech to renaissance without getting sailing and optics(not needed in early game on most land maps anyway). When you send your spy to any civ capital those two tech will almost always be available for stealing and will cost 5 turns each = level 3 spy in 10 turns after he starts stealing.

Harv72b said:

...And that's not even taking into account having the best trireme unit in the game...

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That nerdy kid said:

...and the Quinquereme allows quick conquest of coastal cities...

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Shameless cut-and-paste from my post in another thread:

I'm struggling with the Quinquereme though - it's supposed to be used to attack cities, but even in the ancient era they are getting virtually one-shotted by weak cities (even without garrisons) and by enemy Triremes. Am I missing something? Other than the fact that they are cheap to produce they seem weak.

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Seems it's just me then, perhaps I was just unlucky?

Damn these lists were not what I expected at all lmao. My top 5 are as follows

5) The Aztecs. Fast food, fast military start, and fast culture. With the Aztecs you can spam build Warr- I mean Jaguars just like you would a swordsman-UU Civ only your warriors move faster and heal, all while generating culture. Did I also mention that with the changes to Catapults you are able to rush mathmatics over iron for early siege? You go honor for bonus culture to stack with the UA and an Aztec rush on a late blooming Civ or one that isnt a military might and you can quickly snowball out of control.

4) Mongolia. I mean we call it the keshik rush for a reason. They domintate the open plains, with enough exp they can dominate the hills too. You literally cant touch them without another mounted unit and there is no saying that even with one you'll be able to touch them. Keshiks literally carry Mongolia into warmonger status.

3) The Huns. I only added them to the list because Battering rams are that damn strong, they hopefully will get nerfed. I mean when you can combine that much city siege damage with the horse archer you get quite the early game. Only problem is that with archers and walls a city can fend off a Hun Invasion leaving them to trash other tiles.

2) The Ottomans. Janissaries are so much more annoying then anything else in the game. The ability to heal not 10,20, or even 50 % hp but a full 100???? On a turn of the century unit like a musketmen makes Janissaries arguably the strongest unit in the game. Thanks to the new l.swords > muskets change an Ottoman neighbor HAS to be taken out before he can reach gunpowder or at least out teched. Also thanks to pikemen becoming lancers the sipahi will hopefully step out from the shadow of the Janissaries cast.

My number 1 Civ for Conquest is the Romans) Sorry Legions help improve trade networks while being strong ass swordsmen. The Balistas no longer requiring iron means we'll be seeing a lot more Legions. Early game Iron working rush works on nobody better then the romans and when they decided to move steel further (or at least what feels further) away from Iron working we'll be dealing with Legions being the dominate foot soldier for a lot longer.

StrideColossus said:

Seems it's just me then, perhaps I was just unlucky?

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Can't tell about attacking cities, but Quinqs saved my butt yesterday. They are dirt cheap (220 gold on standard speed, when an archer costs 200) and VERY quick to build and they are stronger than triremes on top of that. This helped me repel a Roman naval attack on coastal Utique. Augustus dropped three Triremes down there (only two could attack it though), but they quickly brought it down to 50%. One of my Quinqs was fighting them from the city (it was low on HP so not much damage was done), while the other one (rush-bought in Carthage) quickly sailed down, finished two triremes and chased the last one (full-health) down to Rome. If Ceasar sent the third trireme before I bought my second Quinq I'd lose the city.

Building a fleet of 5-6 Quinqs could take down a city I believe. And it's still affordable to build/buy and maintain as you have insta-trade routes.

janboruta said:

Building a fleet of 5-6 Quinqs could take down a city I believe. And it's still affordable to build/buy and maintain as you have insta-trade routes.

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Think you're probably right here - I'll try Carthage again and spam Quinqs this time since (as you say) they're dirt cheap to buy/build.

StrideColossus said:

Think you're probably right here - I'll try Carthage again and spam Quinqs this time since (as you say) they're dirt cheap to buy/build.

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That's it exactly. Kind of like an old school warrior rush, just with boats.

I'm not expert but I am surprised no one mentioned Japan or Germany.

The new combat rules makes Japan's UA much better and come on, Samurai!

Pikemen got a strength buff so Germany's UU is stronger and still half price so you can spam them with the UA's reduced military maintenance and a few brutes turned swordsmen don't hurt.

Yes? No? Why?

mystiqblackcat said:

I'm not expert but I am surprised no one mentioned Japan or Germany.

The new combat rules makes Japan's UA much better and come on, Samurai!

Pikemen got a strength buff so Germany's UU is stronger and still half price so you can spam them with the UA's reduced military maintenance and a few brutes turned swordsmen don't hurt.

Yes? No? Why?

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I don't play Japan so I don't know. But I do know their Zero seems next to useless (I almost never build fighters).

Germany's UU takes longer to get to, making them ill equipped for high diff conquests, no? Wouldn't LS be out by the time you get your Landshnecks? (however you spell em)

The Huns - Play a Duel map with 8 Civs (everyone's close-by), chances are you'll start off with horses and then there's nothing to it after that, you gain momentum extremely quickly and you can probably start another front if you need to. Barring more than two 1 tile passes that the AI punishes you for going through, you can take down all 7 other Civs.

In my recent game, I took down 6 Civs and then England stopped me because of massive tech lead, Longbows AND Great Wall. Barring a Great Wall you could probably finish without teching any further than Bronze Working and The Wheel.

mystiqblackcat said:

I'm not expert but I am surprised no one mentioned Japan or Germany.

The new combat rules makes Japan's UA much better and come on, Samurai!

Pikemen got a strength buff so Germany's UU is stronger and still half price so you can spam them with the UA's reduced military maintenance and a few brutes turned swordsmen don't hurt.

Yes? No? Why?

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I almost added Japan then i realized, with steel pushed further back (along with gunpowder) the time samurai run the field is shorter while taking longer to build up to.

Germany never made my list and the combat chance killed what was at best a bad UA in the barb conversion. landsknechts are ok in all yes but i never saw them as a battlefield running unit just a cheap unit