Nukes and diplomacy...

Now that using nukes has diplomatic effects there are a few things I would like to know...

1. If you nuke someone often enough, will you basically permadamage your relations with that faction? For example, if you nuke someone 20 times then will there be a massive -20 relations related to nukes that makes that faction your sworn enemy forever?

2. Do diplomacy penalties from nukes go away with time like some other penalties?

3. Does the AI take the diplomatic penalties into account or does it just go completely crazy with nukes like in Civ 4 and ignores the fact that it is destroying its relations with the whole world?

Anyone?

EDIT: Nobody ?

I don't know, but I'd be very surprised if the game lasts long enough for it to make a difference whether it's temporary or permanent. By then, you're probably looking at last 30ish turns.

The AI considers nukes as standard military units, so if you're at war, I'd imagine it'll use them just the same.

If an AI civ nukes someone, it only gets a diplo hit with that country, not with any others. So it would be a limited restraint factor, if any.

Smokeybear said:

If an AI civ nukes someone, it only gets a diplo hit with that country, not with any others. So it would be a limited restraint factor, if any.

Click to expand...

So its not like Civ 4 where you would also get a penalty with the friends of the target thus making it possible to ruin your relation with the whole world if the target nation was loved and popular?

Also I don't think nukes are treated like normal units, wasn't there some number that decided how likely each civs are to use nukes with Ghandi having the highest one?

From what I can tell, Civs try not to use Nukes. I`ve had long wars with Civs who do have nukes that they just won`t use for ages, then suddenly- BAM. After that, they just use all they`ve got available and the war goes nuclear.

It does not appear to have any diplomatic effects, although I do remember being immediately denounced when I used a nuke first on someone.

hardcore_gamer said:

So its not like Civ 4 where you would also get a penalty with the friends of the target thus making it possible to ruin your relation with the whole world if the target nation was loved and popular?

Click to expand...

Well, if you do the normal things that earn you a warmonger tag with their friends, they will of course hate you. But I have only seen a -diplo note of "You nuked us!" in regards to the country I nuked- I have never seen one saying "You nuked my friend!", from any of their allies.

hardcore_gamer said:

So its not like Civ 4 where you would also get a penalty with the friends of the target thus making it possible to ruin your relation with the whole world if the target nation was loved and popular?

Also I don't think nukes are treated like normal units, wasn't there some number that decided how likely each civs are to use nukes with Ghandi having the highest one?

Click to expand...

You mean the civ flavour? Yeah I think this is just about how focused they are on producing them, to correspond with the flavour bias to mounted/ranged/naval/melee etc. Don't think it's about restraint on existing units due to diplo penalty.

Crafty Bison said:

The AI considers nukes as standard military units, so if you're at war, I'd imagine it'll use them just the same.

Click to expand...

If so, that's a shame. Nukes definitely need their own special set of rules for when they'd get used.

Louis XXIV said:

If so, that's a shame. Nukes definitely need their own special set of rules for when they'd get used.

Click to expand...

AI doesn't use them at the drop of a hat. Some AIs do, the ones with Nuke/Use Nuke at 8 or 10, but generally from what I've noticed is that they are very, very hesitant to escalate unless either one of them blinks or you start flinging at them!

smallfish said:

AI doesn't use them at the drop of a hat. Some AIs do, the ones with Nuke/Use Nuke at 8 or 10, but generally from what I've noticed is that they are very, very hesitant to escalate unless either one of them blinks or you start flinging at them!

Click to expand...

In that sense, the AI seems programmed to behave like real world leaders have behaved ever since the first bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Mutually assured destruction has served as a real deterrant to first use, but once nukes are used in anger, there's every reason to anticipate a retaliation cascade.

AI nuked me in one game (wiping out a handful of highly promoted stealth bombers), and I responded by nuking only the city from which his nuke was launched. Waited one turn, no further retaliation and I chose not to escalate -- no more nukes the rest of the game, even as I wiped him off the map (and he had three atomic bombs in his capital when I took it).