Religion: Are you getting spammed with GPPs and Missionaries?

Muaziz · Jul 31, 2013

I've played about a dozen BNW games and they have had a common theme: my cities were constantly bombarded by foreign Great Prophets and Missionaries.

In at least three games, I founded a religion pretty early, but that did not stop the onslaught. The only way to protect my Capitol was to station units all around it to prevent the foreign preachers from getting next to the city.

In one game, one of my cities got converted back and forth at least a dozen times in a 20 turn span by three different civs.

I still think an early Pantheon can be a very good thing if you can really take advantage of one of the early tenets. But beyond that, it seems like maintaining your own religion will often be a challenge.

The other problem is that you often can't know if you will be stuck in a religious quagmire until after you have decided whether to invest in Faith buildings and/or the Hagia Sophia.

VainoValkea · Jul 31, 2013

Ethiopia did this to me in an earlier game, but it's not usually that much of a problem - some AIs are very fervent when it comes to religion, but typically in investing there they remain vulnerable in other areas. By far the worst religious storm I've had to weather was yesterday. I was playing Byzantines, with both religious texts and itinerant preachers for a super fast religious spread - Askia, my Muslim neighbor, had Evangelism reformation belief and Borobudur. It was horrible, but I managed to deal with it using the ancient art of violence.

Quineloe · Jul 31, 2013

I completely dropped the religion aspect of the game now because it just doesn't seem to be worth the effort to stop that missionary spam.

If only the AI were this persistant with actual army units.

NukeAJS · Jul 31, 2013

The mandate of heaven SP and the -% for purchasing missionaries/inquisitors enhancer can send the AI into a frenzy of missionaries. It is annoying, but it's a completely legit strategy. I wish the AI would abuse other strats as much as they do this strat.

azzaman333 · Jul 31, 2013

The only times I've had trouble with missionaries is when I haven't generated enough faith to properly establish my religion and get an Inquisitor in my capital. Trying to establish a religion without Piety or a powerful +faith bonus is a risky proposition.

Volapyk · Jul 31, 2013

Anyone know exactly how big a faith bonus the AI actually gets?

I've seen them spawn over 17 great prophets in a single game, given it was a wide Ethiopia so they do generate more faith than your average civ, but doing the calculations they would have had to generate over 115 faith per turn in average from turn 1. Which does seem rather unlikely :\

fuzzatron717 · Jul 31, 2013

I use the reformation belief unity of the prophets it really helps against the enemy prophets and missionaries. Plus religious texts helps as well as inquisitors.

The QC · Jul 31, 2013

Yeah, I see missionary spam constantly. It's quite hard to stop in some instances, it makes me want to declare war and have them all executed

.

NukeAJS · Jul 31, 2013

Volapyk said:
Anyone know exactly how big a faith bonus the AI actually gets?

I've seen them spawn over 17 great prophets in a single game, given it was a wide Ethiopia so they do generate more faith than your average civ, but doing the calculations they would have had to generate over 115 faith per turn in average from turn 1. Which does seem rather unlikely :\

As I mentioned before, if you get the right beliefs, especially a pantheon, it's pretty easy to steam-roll faith. I think the most I ever generated was close to +200 a turn in the atomic era which is absolutely insane. If you add in the -% stuff, that's a missionary every turn or every other turn.

wigwam · Jul 31, 2013

NukeAJS said:
As I mentioned before, if you get the right beliefs, especially a pantheon, it's pretty easy to steam-roll faith. I think the most I ever generated was close to +200 a turn in the atomic era which is absolutely insane. If you add in the -% stuff, that's a missionary every turn or every other turn.

I had over 200 a turn in the Renaissance once. As China. On a Small map. On Immortal.

Started in the desert, plopped my second city down near Mt. Sinai, started raking it in. I took Pilgrimage (for the first and only time), figuring I'd be able to spread my religion to every city on my continent before anybody else even founded oneI ended up spreading it to every city-state, every city of my three closest neighbors, and almost all the cities of my fourth rival before my fifth rival finally founded the second religion. I also took Holy WarriorsI was buying a new Cho-Ko-Nu with faith every two turns.

So a wide Ethiopian empireespecially controlled by the AI on a high difficulty, especially on a bigger mapcan probably get something completely insane by the end of the game. 1000+ per turn wouldn't really surprise me.

Xiao Xiong · Jul 31, 2013

Desert folklore + henge + faith wonder + petra + djenne = religious victory.

Roxlimn · Jul 31, 2013

Hm. I stop religious invasion cold with the simple expedient of posting an Inquisitor in every city. I'm not sure if it's a mechanic or an AI weakness, but they don't seem to want to convert cities with Inquisitors in them.

I have fought religious conversion wars on a worldwide scale before. I took Evangelism and Orders for it, too. Korea and I battled religiously for over a century before I finally just stockpiled for a pair of GPs and aimed at his core faith-producers (he took Pilgrimage). Once I gutted those, my religion reigned supreme. Fun.

wigwam · Jul 31, 2013

Roxlimn said:
Hm. I stop religious invasion cold with the simple expedient of posting an Inquisitor in every city. I'm not sure if it's a mechanic or an AI weakness, but they don't seem to want to convert cities with Inquisitors in them.

It's a mechaniccities with Inquisitors in them are immune to conversion.

VainoValkea · Jul 31, 2013

With a few inquisitors, you can cover fairly well against Great Prophets (they're slow!) but missionaries are tougher catches. Luckily, they aren't much of a danger if they don't have that cursed belief, Evangelism.

RealHuhn · Jul 31, 2013

Don't sign open borders and their missionaries quickly lose their strength. Some AIs spam missionaries but not very effectively.
Usually, it's only a battle for city states and cities that already have another religion don't seem to be a desirable target for them.

Prophets are another story though. 1-2 inquisitors are a must have to counter them.

By the way, you should try missionary spam. Take Piety and the enhancer belief for cheaper missionaries and the reformation belief that lets missionaries erode existing religions.
This combination is just brutal. Even on immortal continents, you can convert the whole world to your religion before the modern era.
As Byzantium, pick two founder beliefs and have fun. ^^

Chiatroll · Jul 31, 2013

I tend to notice that if an AI gets Pilgrimage they will go missionary crazy. In my last game as korea I ended up with a religion because of hut popping. and my neighbor was ethiopia with uluru. I gave up on spreading the religion quick and went to Interfaith dialogue + Holy order on his coat tails for a little science boosting early game.

it still worked out.

Also in my experience I feel

Evangelism + MOD + Missionary zeal + Mandate of heaven

can't be underestimated if you want your missionaries to destroy everything they spread.

Also it's not unusual i'll buy open borders instead of spread them so I can missionary spam without problems and they can't.

uncle bulgaria · Jul 31, 2013

Got this in my current game, Carthage to the south and Sweden to the north. Several requests to stop plus 2 denouncements to Carthage and she carried on, even nicked a few techs spying so I resorted to violence.

As she had annexed a city state Milan i liberated that first and have captured one and razed another of her cities. Going to raze the only other one she has left apart from her capital. I've killed every military unit she has, have pillaged every workable tile around Carthage and plan to embargo her in the next world congress as I control most of the votes.

A good old fashioned Civ shafting. As I liberated Milan I've got no warmonger penalty and I'm still largely popular with the other civs exept Sweden who were an ally of Carthage.

Scott Jegg · Jul 31, 2013

Sometimes it's absolutely convient.

Siam was spamming my whole continent with Buddhism, but it meant I was getting +1 faith from deserts (suits me), mosques (suits me), buy science buildings with faith (suits me), without me having to spend any of my time setting up that religion at all.

When I did eventually invade him, he had 4 great prophets that I captured (2 could still be used for holy sites), and a shed load of missionaries just ambling about the countryside.

It's not always bad.

danieladler · Jul 31, 2013

I have played a dozen games with BNW and i have never experienced what you have experienced. Sometimes i have seen a pack of missionairies going a across my lands probably in order to do their dirty job in another civ, though. So i guess its again proof of how much civ-players experiences differ.

Randall_Flagg · Jul 31, 2013

I really do enjoy the religous wars in BNW. Even if you grab the 25%/50% spread you cannot take over the world with it. It is something that keeps you busy, and that to me is just great.

Religion: Are you getting spammed with GPPs and Missionaries?

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