How to get better? Help wanted

Thank you for all of the tips! Any advice for building on Tundra and Desert tiles?

TearsasLube said:

Thank you for all of the tips! Any advice for building on Tundra and Desert tiles?

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Tundra is terrible avoid it (hills and forests are okay). You will want to avoid tundra at all cost but if your only tundra tiles are hills or forest you can use these just fine with mines and lumber mill. Obviously you just want a few of these at most since you will have to grab food from farms on grass or plains.

Desert is a special case, food plains are good and hills are okay. Flat desert is terrible unless you get petra. With petra you also make desert hills incredible. Desert folklore is also a very good pantheon. Finally oasis are also good tiles and provide fresh water.

Wow guys - your advice has almost turned me into a good player (albeit still at Warlord level).

I started a game as the Shoshone and stuck as closely as I could to the advice from Undefeatable and Dave Hartwick and it is now 150AD and I am in the lead with 3 cities and 330 points (Arabia is second with 257)

I reckon there is only room for two more cities on the continent I am on so I am thinking that I should go for Navigation/Frigates next - but this means not going for Guilds, Masonry and Iron Working (no iron near me anyway). Is that foolish?

pinkishkittny said:

I reckon there is only room for two more cities on the continent I am on so I am thinking that I should go for Navigation/Frigates next - but this means not going for Guilds, Masonry and Iron Working (no iron near me anyway). Is that foolish?

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Frigates are a good way to expand your empire mid-game, but they do require Iron, so make sure you can secure some before you plan on building Frigates or upgrading Galleass.

Just my 2 cents... I played alot of Civ IV and Civ Rev (on the PS3) before buying this game when it first came out. Now you and others might not agree but I started the game as I do most games on the hardest difficulty level (deity). I would get smashed all day and all night for awhile. What put me over the top? LPs... I think Pilgrim hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't just watch 10mins or so I would watch every min of them. These can be very long, over 10hrs at times. Try to watch 30-60mins of video a day or so and go in the game and try what they are doing. That way you get the best of both worlds, some learning and some playing. I would learn Build Orders and read up on strategy guides on this site. Information along with experience is the best way for me to learn. I can't say it would work for you but it made me learn fast as in just about everything in my life. I've always been a firm believer in learning via the school of Hard Knocks. The reason being is if you struggle at warlord and get to the point where you beat warlord easy you will find that things won't work the same as you move up in levels. Ofcourse this depends on how much time you have to invest in this game. You need hours and hours of practice and study and I still find that I learn more and more every day at this game from these gifted players on this site. Hang in there and keep trying, you'll get the hang of it for sure! Im not 100% sure but I think it was Cromagnus who said "treat this game like chess." this means you work on your opening for hours and hours. Play out the first 50 turns or so trying to do what you want via whatever strategy guide you are learning. Get that opening down pat till you move past the first 50 turns. Once you got that going you can move on to more of your middle game. Don't be like me and try to play every game out to the bitter end. Get that opening solid and after that move on to the middle and end games. Use Poland and learn the opening with them. If you can try to follow a little of Tommynts Poland Strategy Guide. (IMO) They are one of the most forgiving Civs out there. You can make alot of mistakes with them and still have a strong game!

Edit: No doubt Uzael36! My way of learning is not for everyone. That is why I said it may or may not be for some of you and that all of you might not agree with this method or style of learning. The most important thing is having "fun." It is only a game after all and is pretty meaningless in the total aspect of life. This was just a suggestion on how to get better as the post's title suggests. It all depends on what you want from this game. I also have a very relaxed style that I play on Deity and you will see my finish times are nowhere near as close as the experts.

To Mattzey: That is a good question! Im not sure if I recall one of these on youtube, however I know that if this is something you want to achieve it might be better to follow one of the strategy guides on this forum. Always remember these guides are just that... guidelines. Each game will change things a bit and you will most likely form your own style mixing the two of them together. LPs, in general, seem to be one part instructional and one part entertainment. You can learn alot from them but I think for faster win times... strategy guides are better to follow. Im sure you can achieve this turn time victory with Tommynt's Poland Guide. I forgot who said that the Liberty/Warmonger approach was a way to achieve a very fast SV having 10 cities. Im thinking your best chance is with Civs like Korea, Babylon and Maya but we all know that Poland is pretty much broken and (IMO) is the easiest civ to win any VC you desire! All of the youtube LPs seem to play a more relaxed approach as well, even say all of Madjinns videos. He and the others I have watched seem to play a style that finish slower because they do not want to take advantage of the AI as much as they could. This does not suggest that you can not achieve your goal if you do not manipulate the AI. I believe even if you play with alot of restrictions you still can achieve your turn time goal! They seem to handicap the AI a bit for a closer game even though they pretty much smash the AI every time. I find in my games I do this alot. I will experiment all the time saying I know I will win eventually so let's see how far I can push it. I was messing about on an Imm Challenge the other day and doing all sorts of wild things. I never got over 225 spt till after turn 315. It was amazing to see that I was teching even with the AI and in that game Im almost to turn 400 and only 5% behind. The AI has alot of Nukes but refuses to use them. I really do not understand that. Im in perma war with all AI because I wanted to see if I could still win in the late eras being in constant war. The AI should of nuked me long ago winning the game easy. Even if I was at war with only 1 civ it would seem the AI does not like to use nukes. I have been nuked by the AI before but it is rare in my games. I wonder how far on Imm can I push it and still win? Can I still win at turn 475? It is a bit sad to be able to push the game this far. (IMO) On Imm and Deity the AI should be able to win faster like turn 275-325 like it used to back in G&K at times. When the AI could runaway with a SV or DV I used to have to play a more percise style of game. Nowadays I can pretty much do whatever I want, even on Deity, and still get an SV or DV (the AI would Coup every turn and hardly get killed while when you would Coup you had no chance ) and sometimes a Dom VC. CV is a bit foreign to me and will depend on if you want a Peaceful CV or a Warmonger CV. Both seem to require a more percise style of gameplay (IMO). The only times I have won CVs (in the new BNW) is when I took over 90% of the map and won the CV through Domination. I used to win CVs all the time back in G&K but things have changed to the point that I do not even bother with CVs unless it is a condition. Archaeology you say?! Antiquity Sites... Hidden Antiquity Sites you ask?! My empire never has this knowledge till the end of the game and hardly can find one of these sites still on the map! The only Archaeologists I usually have are the ones that we capture through War and we make them wait in prison till we see fit to research or steal Archaeology! Ofcourse,usually we use these chaps for baiting the AI. (See KB and his "magic button" approach for CVs!)

Side Note: Now I know this thought is going to get some backlash but that is ok. If you want to fool around with the "Science Overflow Bug" (Most people call this a bug but I do not see it as such... even though I never use it in my current games unless Im testing something or I just want to play a game by myself having fun with it) I have seen SVs in my own games under turn 240. Remember this is a game and if your not playing under any rules or conditions you can do whatever you like. Also since Fallen_Kings has posted this "Overflow Problem" which has been around since the game came out, it can be fun to play a few games messing about with it. Ofcourse that is only my opinion but you will find even the top players have posted games trying it out and showing what can be done with it. The only exploit I really frown upon is reloads. However it is your game and you can do whatever you darn well choose with it!

Fluphen Azine said:

Just my 2 cents. I played alot of Civ IV and Civ Rev (on the PS3) before buying this game when it first came out. Now you and others might not agree but I started the game as I do most games on the hardest difficulty level (deity). I would get smashed all day and all night for awhile. What put me over the top? LPs... I think Pilgrim hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't just watch 10mins or so I would watch every min of them. I would learn Build Orders and read up on strategy guides on this site. Information along with experience is the best way for me to learn. I can't say it would work for you but it made me learn fast as in just about everything in my life. I've always been a firm believer in learning via the school of Hard Knocks. The reason being is if you struggle at warlord and get to the point where you beat warlord easy you will find things won't work the same as you move up in levels. Ofcourse this depends on how much time you have to invest in this game. You need hours and hours of practice and study and I still find out that I learn more and more every day at this game from these gifted players on this site. Hang in there and keep trying, you'll get the hang of it for sure! Im not 100% sure but I think it was Cromagnus who said "treat this game like chess." this means you work on your opening for hours and hours. Play out the first 50 turns or so trying to do what you want via whatever strategy guide you are learning. Get that opening down pat till you move past the first 50 turns. Once you got that going you can move on to more of your middle game. Don't be like me and try to play every game out to the bitter end. Get that opening solid and after that move on to the middle and end games. Use Poland and learn the opening with them. If you can try to follow a little of Tommynts Poland Strategy Guide. (IMO) They are one of the most forgiving Civs out there. You can make alot of mistakes with them and still have a strong game!

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What ever makes the game fun is what I'd recommend, when you are first starting out. Your way probably does get you to higher difficulties faster, but I personally would not have fun getting beat down so much, but at the same time I did start at Prince, which gave me a chance to learn and have fun. I also prefer to avoid the forums and videos when I'm learning, as I find that figuring things out on my own is more fun than learning it from someone else.

Then when I'm tired of going at it alone, I find the forums for more expert help, and go from there. There is a point that you've exhausted your learning curve and need a bit of outside assistance.

But in the end, it is all about what you find fun.

has anyone got a link to a youtuber who has won a science victory at turn 240 or less on immortal/diety? standard game pace also? looking to improve my mid/late game as i cant win a science win until 270 ish normally

Play small maps. That's how I say you get better.

Mattzey said:

has anyone got a link to a youtuber who has won a science victory at turn 240 or less on immortal/diety? standard game pace also? looking to improve my mid/late game as i cant win a science win until 270 ish normally

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I wish thorak would make some videos. He's got some amazing HoF(no mods and no reloads allowed) diety science wins especially his 221 one. I've managed a few diety/standard sub 250 SV(poland and netherlands) but not under HoF rules, best so far with HoF rules is 283 which won't show up till July. I did have a really good one going that I could have finished at turn 265 with Sweden but I got pile drived by my good "friends" Gandhi, Harun and Maria. That was brutal and after losing two cities and cap about to fall I had to quit.

thanks to the two people who replied to my question, i searched for the person called Thorak on youtube but couldn't find his channel or any videos unfortunately. and the reason i asked my question was that i cant seem to get a very quick win, but saying that I've only been on immortal for 3 weeks and before that I hadn't been playing civ 5 for about 8 months.

Had a little try on diety earlier (my first attempt on diety) got a bad spawn, had a river and 3 mountains around my cap with the rest of the tiles just plains) had little to none lux resources and the ai quickly settled the only decent spot i saw so kind of just gave up aha

Here is a sub 220 video: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=527160&page=2

This is a cultural victory, but shares many of the same principles you need for science.

It's in parts, and with an incredible start. Keep in mind, these fast victories are in part possible due to a good start. The one above has 4 great features for a great game. Russia's extra production on horses, salt, 500 extra gold from a natural wonder and Petra. All that adds up to an incredible start.

Just seen the first video and yeh that starting position is very very good, desert flood plains,mountain hills for production,river and the salt is a very very strong start, and the wonder been that close was also very lucky, thanks for sending me the videos

Thanks for welcoming me to the forums and all the great help. I havent played as much as I would like to over the past few days, but when I need help I know I can come here. You're all awesome!