LowtherCastle
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- Joined
- May 18, 2005
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My calcs were that Gems is about 45 beakers ahead of Gold, because of the delayed gold mine and because of not connecting TRs. But I also used Gems at D=5 instead D=4, so that might add 4 beakers. They would be the same if Gold works the gold from the beginning, as in settling Gold1E.
How about a construction bee-line as the primary goal? Is there a way to safely risk going for a Construction slingshot? Probably using a Math bulb? By safely, I mean, if we miss on the Oracle, we're still in position to research Construction relatively quickly.Testing/spreadsheets help to see which options come out how far ahead in terms of beakers, etc (and almost certainly the best beaker option is gems first).
We also need to work out our goals.
Is it "maximize use of the walled-in resources"?
Is it "establish a core and then capture Kyoto ASAP"?
Both? Something else?
That's the standard view to take. But does the pig farm help us settle faster? Not sure it does, but it would have to be tested. If our research is kicking ass then maybe TW-AH-BW is fast enough to get the best of both worlds.With the pigs, wouldn't TW -> AH be better then TW -> BW for Gems?
Do we really want to block our chances from settling that deer/cows city? How many nice sites do we even have in Toku Prison? If we're prioritizing research and claiming the land, then this is one option. In other words, we can grow Gold to pop2 now or do it later, depending on when we need the beakers. I also really like the idea of building SH there. That would expand the borders quickly, fogbust, and discourage Toku from settling there.Regarding Gold, the biggest reason I would consider settling it next is to work the early pre-improved deer. Since Gold-1E can't do that, I don't see the benefit. At gold-1E, you'd have to research AH next, improve the sheep on the turn it's settled and then work the gold after growing to 2 pops. This would put gold-1E way behind gems.
Do we really want to block our chances from settling that deer/cows city?
How many city sites do we really need to be able to break out of said prison?How many nice sites do we even have in Toku Prison?
Got it. If we need beakers, we work the gold mine at 1 pop. If not, we grow. We could do the same with Gold-1N too, right? The benefit of Gold-1N is that it can work the powerful pre-improved deer resource while waiting for the gold mine to be done! Then, if we need commerce for our Construction beeline, we can stop working the dear for a turn or twenty.In other words, we can grow Gold to pop2 now or do it later, depending on when we need the beakers.
This applies equally to both Gold-1N and Gold-1E. Gold-1E does claim more new land, but the concept is the same.I also really like the idea of building SH there. That would expand the borders quickly, fogbust, and discourage Toku from settling there.
Exploratory thinking. But not settling near the deer is not taking advantage of a powerful early-game tile. Not researching hunting before AH costs us 20+ beakers. Neil did a good job on creating an MM nightmare for those who hate it...
First of all, the Oracle is (mostly) absolutely safe until someone founds a religion. The chances of an AI researching Medi-PH when the Poly religion is still open are small.
How many axes would be needed for two protective archers on a hill? My guess is that Toku may have 2 archers to start but could/would whip 1 or 2 more while we march closer, making axes a tough road.Do we need cats to take down Kyoto? If there are only 2 archers there, then they're costly and excessive. If there's anything more than that, then they're just the ticket.
There's no point bombarding at 2%/turn for 50 cat-turns though - we'll just have to grin and bear it.
Good call.Two marble-enhanced chops with maths means we can put the Oracle and its culture anywhere we like
Finally there's the other stuff we could get:
Hunting/AH.
Pottery
Iron Working if we have no horses/copper.
Should we be satisfied with four cities, or go for even more if we can afford them?
EDIT: The Poly religion is still available. That means: 1) agri first is a viable gambit for PDs/Kakus (which means Neil fkdup, abandon SG15, wait for SG16, in my books)
I didn't expect you to respond, but the point I'm making is that my impression is that the point of this scenario was to beeline Hinduism, then continue on with the game. Sticking agriculture before Poly(/Medit) was supposed to be discouraged and risky. Sure enough, normal testing shows that even starting without Mysticism, AIs easily get Poly or Meditation by 3280BC so that there was no point in risking it.
so I assume we have nothing to worry about...I think it's:
1-settle Delhi
2-select Polytheism as first tech
3-...wait...
4-found Hinduism
5-convert to Hinduism and stick with it all game long.
6-???
7-Profit
I had a few extra paragraphs written down but they might be considered spoilerish so I removed them.
Yes, exactly. We also need horses, which could be anywhere. I don't buy the need for marble, since it only saves 75h for a big investment, but that's also an optional city. As you point out, also a potential Hammy block. Since we're constrained here, blocking land is paramount. In my experience, Toku can expand surprisingly fast. I think it's because he only really invests in units and expansion.For me, the kicker isn't comparing food, hammers, commerce. It's more about sealing off as much land as possible. We can settle gems at any time. We may even need to settle our third city to the north to block off Hamb. We haven't even explored up there yet...