The Wealthiest Civs
- Thread starter troc
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thegingerninja
Warlord
Carthage on archipelago. No argument
How about Carthage on Tiny Islands?
Or Carthage on Large Islands?
Carthage's cash advantage though is largest about 1/3rd of the way thru: Right before as any other civ you just discovered the tech for Harbors. It does however still retain a small GPT bonus even after all Harbors would have been built since Harbors normally have a small maintenance cost.
How about Carthage on Tiny Islands?
Or Carthage on Large Islands?
Carthage's cash advantage though is largest about 1/3rd of the way thru: Right before as any other civ you just discovered the tech for Harbors. It does however still retain a small GPT bonus even after all Harbors would have been built since Harbors normally have a small maintenance cost.
even on pangea is still great
Fractal.
What? There certainly is an argument. Harbors are only three maintenance. Carthage gets an effective +3gpt from every city that would normally have a harbor in it, which is the same as a Paper Maker and 1g more than a Mud Pyramid Mosque. Except a Paper Maker actually generates gold whereas Phoenician Heritage only saves you gold.
Considering River Warlord, Polders, and Achaemenid Legacy among others have a somewhat imprecise gpt, I'm not sure if Carthage is even in the top 5. I'd rather have 50+ turn Golden Ages and +2 Gold to every flood plains yield than a free building.
The main advantage of Carthage isn't the 3gpt per savings. It's that they get Harbors from turn 1. Plant each and every city; instant trade connection. No waiting for a road (if on the same landmass.) No waiting to discover the tech for Harbors if on a different landmass. (Water based maps)
I'm playing the Dutch right now: Polders isn't the source of their extra cash. (There were no marsh tiles on my entire landmass), it's instead being able to trade away the last copy of their luxury thanks to the UA.
Flood plains: It's been 3 or 4 games since I've had flood plains on my starting landmass at all.
Edit: Actually with the Wheel; chances are very high as Carthage you'll either have this tech or at least only be a few turns away from it when your second city is founded. For anybody else, they not only need this tech, but they actually need to spend a few worker turns building the road.
Gort
Emperor
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Not so - you need to get the wheel before trade enables.
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Correct. You get the building and the bonus to sea resources, but you only get trade routes at the Wheel. It's exactly at the Wheel though, no need to wait X number of turns to build the Harbors.
So you're arguing that an ideal start with Carthage will be be more profitable than a crappy start with Netherlands? Doesn't that go without saying?
You can't assume a perfect situation for one civ and not for the others. On most maps, you won't spawn near Flood Plains or Marsh tiles. On most maps, you also won't have the luxury of settling all your cities near coast. You say "each and every city" when the reality is that you'll get handful at best. I build roads half the time as Carthage anyways for strategic reasons.
What about an endless chain of hills connecting all your cities for the Inca? Or a string of forest for the Iroquois? Practically, you will make more money as the Netherlands or Songhai or China than you will as Carthage. You could make a situation for any gold-generating civ where they come out on top.
As long as the map size is standard (or below), even on regular contentants most city sites can be coastal.
It's only on Pangena & the regional maps that inland cities outnumber coastal ones on standard size. (Also a few places on the real earth map)
Schwartzenheim
Chieftain
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- Feb 22, 2013
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As it happens, I was working on an Austria game where I was trying to get as rich as possible. Pic below is why I think you are incorrect.
Spoiler :
Played it on archipelago, 20 city states, 10 civs, prince difficulty for richest richness.
The idea with Austria that makes them better than alternatives on these maps is because diplo marriage is a method of investing that other civs don't have. I.E. you don't have to pay maintenance on giant military to have a source of puppets for gold/culture/science. This is a picture of my gpt after I set all the cities to gold production and gold focus during a golden age.
Other critical things are an emphasis on GMs and the ludicrous start that I managed to roll: coastal, marble, mountain, on a hill. The only better start is if I'd managed to start next to the river too in order to make a garden.
It's also not optimized because I got cruddy religious beliefs and didn't spread religion very effectively. +2 per city could have generated 100 more gpt maybe. It also seems like the Strat has nice potential for doing a diplomatic win on archipelago, because that 40,000 gold was gold I couldn't use and could potentially go toward bribing other civs. Just have to not marry the votes that you need. The massive gpt means you probably don't even need to go down the patronage tree.
Edit: I almost forgot to say that I turned spies off. Just wanted to lower the noise for a rough run, it needs some more work D:
Spies as Austria: If anything, you would have had even more money as Austria if that had been on.
(Use rigging of an election to bring yourself slightly above threshold for ally and marry 5 turns later; and also coup & and marry five turns later.)
(Use rigging of an election to bring yourself slightly above threshold for ally and marry 5 turns later; and also coup & and marry five turns later.)
