Polynesia naval units can cross oceans at start?

Question · Sep 22, 2014

I thought their UA was pretty lackluster because it specifically said "embark" so i thought that meant embarked units only...i just tried it out and i noticed triremes could cross oceans, which was really good.

Moais are terrible though. And -10% enemy strength is terrible compared to what other UUs get.

TLHeart · Sep 22, 2014

the moais, in a chain, are very powerful for culture, and tourism.

use the moia, with their unique unit, and you have great defense of your cities.

Question · Sep 22, 2014

They arent good for culture at all when you consider that realistically speaking, you are only going to get a few moais and you are only going to get bonuses from 2 moai at max. So you might get three moais in a line, with one moai at 3 culture and the other two at 2 culture each.

You lose out a ton of food/production/etc by building moais though.

Brazilian camps are much better.

beetle · Sep 22, 2014

If you have a long coast line, you are getting 3 culture on most of them. But look for 1 or 2 tile thick peninsula, which should not be that uncommon on most maps. I was skeptical about moai at first, but they really can stack.

Question · Sep 22, 2014

Even though i had a long coastline, i couldnt build moais on most of the tiles because they were taken up by special resources.

I also find one or two tile thick penisulars to be -extremely- rare.

Brazilwood camps are still better, its +1G +1C over normal trading posts in jungle. Thats a substantial improvement. Moai have too many restrictios (same with chataeaus).

beetle · Sep 23, 2014

It is hard to begrudge specials. The peninsulas do not have to be long, just 4/5 hex stubs. Three coastal tiles touching instead of lines. I agree that Brazilwood camps are better, since with Jungle start bias, one usually has plenty.

Anarchist · Sep 24, 2014

beetle said:
It is hard to begrudge specials. The peninsulas do not have to be long, just 4/5 hex stubs. Three coastal tiles touching instead of lines. I agree that Brazilwood camps are better, since with Jungle start bias, one usually has plenty.

And when you get Universities - Wow!

Trackmaster · Sep 24, 2014

Question said:
They arent good for culture at all when you consider that realistically speaking, you are only going to get a few moais and you are only going to get bonuses from 2 moai at max. So you might get three moais in a line, with one moai at 3 culture and the other two at 2 culture each.

You lose out a ton of food/production/etc by building moais though.

Brazilian camps are much better.

That's an unfair comparison. Are you going to use Brazil instead of Polynesia because of it? Personally, I find both Civilizations to be pretty lackluster. Especially for Polynesia because I have a rule that I always use Continents or Continents Plus, as opposed to cherry picking the map based on the Civ's strengths. I'd imagine that on a archipelago map, Polynesia would dominate though. I find Brazil to be a challenge because it requires you to work on land that vast territories of jungle and have the discipline not to work them until you get machinery. It's also tricky because the Jungle tiles with the Camp provide no production, so you'll still struggle with production for Brazil.

LoneRebel · Sep 24, 2014

Question said:
They arent good for culture at all when you consider that realistically speaking, you are only going to get a few moais and you are only going to get bonuses from 2 moai at max. So you might get three moais in a line, with one moai at 3 culture and the other two at 2 culture each.

You lose out a ton of food/production/etc by building moais though.

Brazilian camps are much better.

Well, I thought so too, but Polynesia can be used to get a sub-200 turn cultural victory on Deity (it's been done, look for it). So...

TheGrumpyBuddha · Sep 24, 2014

Question said:
They arent good for culture at all when you consider that realistically speaking, you are only going to get a few moais and you are only going to get bonuses from 2 moai at max. So you might get three moais in a line, with one moai at 3 culture and the other two at 2 culture each.

You lose out a ton of food/production/etc by building moais though.

Brazilian camps are much better.

Camps suck compared to Moia. If you're only getting 2-3 culture per Moia you're Doing It Wrong. (Or Playing Pangea.) On an Archipelago map it's not uncommon to have spots where you have blocks of Moia generating 4-6 culture each, so around ~30 culture for just 6 spaces.

Even on a continents map you'll find areas where you can get 3-4 culture per Moia for multiple Moia. But yeah, obviously best on Archipelago. Shocking, the island Civ is best with islands ...

johnny_rudeboy · Sep 25, 2014

Trackmaster said:
That's an unfair comparison. Are you going to use Brazil instead of Polynesia because of it? Personally, I find both Civilizations to be pretty lackluster. Especially for Polynesia because I have a rule that I always use Continents or Continents Plus, as opposed to cherry picking the map based on the Civ's strengths. I'd imagine that on a archipelago map, Polynesia would dominate though. I find Brazil to be a challenge because it requires you to work on land that vast territories of jungle and have the discipline not to work them until you get machinery. It's also tricky because the Jungle tiles with the Camp provide no production, so you'll still struggle with production for Brazil.

Polynesia should be really good on a continents plus map. Lots of one and two hex peninsulas on those maps and also lots of small islands around the continents. And since they can cross ocean water from the get go they can meet all the CS first for gold and influence since they are always placed on small islands surrounding the continents.

Xiao Xiong · Sep 28, 2014

Question said:
I also find one or two tile thick penisulars to be -extremely- rare.

Yes, but you get triremes that can cross the ocean so you are going to find them before anyone else and settle them. And because you do have moai you are going to have an eagle eye out for that perfect spot on that peninsula or island where you can build a massively stacked easter island.

MarauderCH · Sep 28, 2014

I had a game with Polynesia where I had a good size island that fit three cities on it with a small island for a fourth city. I ringed that entire island with Maois. The best part was it had a lot of desert around the capital so I picked the desert pantheon and the built Petra. The tiles around the capital had good tile output because of it. I will have to see if I can get a screenshot from an old file...

LoneRebel · Sep 29, 2014

Xiao Xiong said:
Yes, but you get triremes that can cross the ocean so you are going to find them before anyone else and settle them. And because you do have moai you are going to have an eagle eye out for that perfect spot on that peninsula or island where you can build a massively stacked easter island.

Oh, that just reminded me of something. Since both Polynesian embarked land units and Polynesian naval units can cross the oceans right from the start, can Polynesian city connections and trade routes cross oceans right from the start too?

Sharples · Sep 29, 2014

The stupid thing with Polynesia is that you can't trade across Oceans until you research Astronomy.

Polynesia naval units can cross oceans at start?

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