Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

Taxman66 said:

Why would animals you get from an advanced building like the biodome (or even trainers) be based (i.e. limited to) on prehistoric myths?

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Because you can only have animals in a zoo that you have captured or traded. The Myths are a good representation of that.

I was thinking of herds, pastures and hunting camps as well, which handle the more domesticated ones.

Faustmouse said:

Besides, as I stated earlier, there is a tag for buildings that reduce the costs of another building (or more then 1) ONLY in the city were the building IS.

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Limiting which cities you can build the wonder in, or more likely making it harder for the AI to get the wonder because it does not decide on which is the best city for a wonder just on if it is good to build that wonder in the city it is currently looking at.

Limiting which cities you can build the wonder in, or more likely making it harder for the AI to get the wonder because it does not decide on which is the best city for a wonder just on if it is good to build that wonder in the city it is currently looking at.

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A player can overthink this too though... trying to make sure you send them to the perfect city often gets them killed in transit unless you take the time to protect them on their journey. Besides, the AI does a generally overall poor job of determining where to build its wonders in the first place. And a small modifier to the build costs of other buildings would at least make the player feel like there's some justification for those things not ever going obsolete - which you have good reasons for but are hard to explain to the layman player. (Going by my pathetic attempts to explain it to my wife who finds it frustrating as well.)

I am sorry I don't understand.

Many Myth buildings give a reduced cost to some buildings built anywhere in your nation. Therefor only having one helps the AI.

Myth buildings are used to determine what tamed animals you can build or get free from the biodome because they demonstrate what animals you have gone out and caught or traded for. If you have never had a lion how do you expect to have them in your zoos etc? The only addition to this is the herd buildings and improved resource plots which work the same way as the Myth for determining what you can build.

Why would you expect to be able to build tiger units in a world where there are no tigers because there are no landmasses on your random map in the regions tigers spawn?

@DH

I am thinking of rethinking my Hunting Camps and Animal Traps. Instead of requiring vicinity resources I am thinking of just having them built by Subdued Animals. However I think some may overlap Herds.

What do you think about this?

It will take things out of the build queue and make it impossible for me to play with science above 60% for much of the ancient era as I rely on those cheap buildings for income.

At first glance it looks like a good idea.

Many myth buildings have no (expressed) benefits after Education so this leaves the player struggling to understand why the building isn't obsoleted then, which then also makes them think perhaps the building becomes a detriment as opposed to a benefit because the -1 at education makes it look like that could be what its switching to rather than a +1. Giving a small build benefit to ALL of them would help to insist there's justification without having to explain somewhere that they guide the spawns of the biodome.

When/if I ever get the Evolving Religions mod up and running it will become obvious that the Myths are important through out the game.

Hydromancerx said:

@DH

I am thinking of rethinking my Hunting Camps and Animal Traps. Instead of requiring vicinity resources I am thinking of just having them built by Subdued Animals. However I think some may overlap Herds.

What do you think about this?

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While your combination buildings (Hunter's Camp, Plantations, Farms, Mines...) are a cool concept in theory, they are kinda annyoing in game. The first few are cool, but after a while it's just annyoing to select them all and also the fact that you can't really put them in a queue makes it really frustrating to keep your cities up to date. So yeah, this sounds like a good idea!

Faustmouse said:

While your combination buildings (Hunter's Camp, Plantations, Farms, Mines...) are a cool concept in theory, they are kinda annyoing in game. The first few are cool, but after a while it's just annyoing to select them all and also the fact that you can't really put them in a queue makes it really frustrating to keep your cities up to date. So yeah, this sounds like a good idea!

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Hydro's suggestion does not affect your problem except to make those buildings all disappear from the city build list as you will only be able to build them with animals.

Faustmouse said:

While your combination buildings (Hunter's Camp, Plantations, Farms, Mines...) are a cool concept in theory, they are kinda annyoing in game. The first few are cool, but after a while it's just annyoing to select them all and also the fact that you can't really put them in a queue makes it really frustrating to keep your cities up to date. So yeah, this sounds like a good idea!

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I just want to say I don't find them annoying in the least... Any time I can get food or production is a woohoo moment for me

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Hydro's suggestion does not affect your problem except to make those buildings all disappear from the city build list as you will only be able to build them with animals.

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Actually I was thinking of removing the resource combo requirements and having them purely buildable on the animals.

This should mean that one could no longer get the Rhino Hunter's Camp just because they had Elephants and Pig resources nearby. They actually need to have subdued a Rhino.

Resources combos like Mines, Crops and Fish I would keep. And breeders/farms would still stay. So like Elephant Farm would still require elephant resource nearby, but the elephant hunter needs an elephant. The problem I see is it might step on the toes of the Herd buildings. Making them redundant.

Hydromancerx said:

The problem I see is it might step on the toes of the Herd buildings. Making them redundant.

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Why? They both currently exist. What is different just because animals can build them also.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Why? They both currently exist. What is different just because animals can build them also.

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Because with the combo resources you can get animals that don't belong in that area of the world.

Maybe you should keep those combo ones as they are unless you want to make them buildable by either of the animals that normally make up the combo and require both myths be present (that might make them even more fun to get actually.)

Hydromancerx said:

@DH



I noticed many of the Myths don't use the icon/buttons I provided you before. There are a lot you could use such as Sea Otter, Spider, etc.

If I find more I will post them. In the meantime here is a link to the old totems.

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I have used many of these already but going through trying to use them I discover there is no totem_fox in the files provided. There is an totem_ethowolf which is not in your list.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

I have used many of these already but going through trying to use them I discover there is no totem_fox in the files provided. There is an totem_ethowolf which is not in your list.

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When I tried to add this totems I saw that we need more of these buttons. Hydro, can you obtain more of them?

Dancing Hoskuld said:

I have used many of these already but going through trying to use them I discover there is no totem_fox in the files provided. There is an totem_ethowolf which is not in your list.

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Oops yeah totem_ethowolf is for the Ethiopian Wolf if you were going so far for individual ones.

Sparth said:

When I tried to add this totems I saw that we need more of these buttons. Hydro, can you obtain more of them?

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Here is the source.

Commenting on the discussion in the non-SVN bugs thread started by liosalpha:
If making them into National Wonders then remove the training of the animals one can train now. If not then add to the types one can train and spread to other cities as herds and cages and such, like birds, deer, penguins, (kangaroos?), and all the other animals one can breed and spread but so far lack the ability to do so with in the game.
It has bugged me a while that only some can be spread, and among them the Aardvark???

Why are those unlocked at Bronzeworking too btw? Seems to me that Trade would be a good point for most of them that need wooden cages or ropes to lead them and Bronze Working only for the big carnivores that need metal bars to stop them from escaping.

Cheers

BlueGenie said:

Commenting on the discussion in the non-SVN bugs thread started by liosalpha:
If making them into National Wonders then remove the training of the animals one can train now. If not then add to the types one can train and spread to other cities as herds and cages and such, like birds, deer, penguins, (kangaroos?), and all the other animals one can breed and spread but so far lack the ability to do so with in the game.
It has bugged me a while that only some can be spread, and among them the Aardvark???

Why are those unlocked at Bronzeworking too btw? Seems to me that Trade would be a good point for most of them that need wooden cages or ropes to lead them and Bronze Working only for the big carnivores that need metal bars to stop them from escaping.

Cheers

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You will be able to train all animals, eventually. The problem was that I had to make a building and the animals. With a single building for all tamed animals and the myth requirement on the animal it will be easier to set up the animals as we add them.

After much discussion the agreement was to move them to Specialisation. The Animal Trainer Complex will be replacing all the current animal trainer buildings. Which will be removed.

Eventually you will want new cities (on the moon and beyond) to get something like the zoo with the enclosures in one building rather than having to build each enclosure.

Something to discuss:

In my recent game (svn like 8372), which started from prehistoric era, I caught a Beluga, which appeared in a coastal city as Myth of Beluga. As I understand, this unit (and other fish/sea animals?) can move (to relocate it to another coastal city for use?). Myth of Beluga is set as not being able to explore covered map tiles. It is not limited to moving in only coastal tiles.

However, there was an island to which my outrigger could not sail, since a sea ice tile blocked coastal path. It was far in the north, I did not plan on establishing a city there, so I would have to wait to explore that particular island.
Then, when I caught this Beluga, I could by using it sail to that island and explore it.
How did it happen?:
The coast was explored by my master hunter, who with extended sight provided sea tiles visibility, so the Myth of Beluga could sail around that blocking sea ice tile and act like an explorer.

Is it like an abuse of game rules? Is Myth of Beluga intended to be used as explorer?
And how? When in the case, let's say a subdued bear, I can imagine, that someone is controlling such an animal and they together go to explore for example a land village. But in the case of Beluga, A Beluga rider? Someone attached a boat or canoe to a Beluga and then can use it sail on open water to go around blocking sea ice?

This may be a special case, but even in other cases - instead of building an outrigger for exploration, I can use Myth of Beluga to explore a whole range of coastal islands.
Is this something, that should be in the game?