Science growth help

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Rombizio

Chieftain
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Oct 23, 2013
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Hello folks,

I see many people getting techs very fast on Emperor. Though I can finish a game with 1500 beakers available by around year 2000 (epic - turn 650 I think), I noticed that some people can get 1500 beakers by the time they reach Atomic Era. Some people can get Internet, which is a last tier tech, by year 1890. How is that possible? I run tall to avoid the 5% penalty and I can get GL most of my games too. I also go Rationalism all the way down.

Any suggestions to improve the tech speed? Remember, this is on Emperor.
Thanks
 
Rombizio said:
Hello folks,

I see many people getting techs very fast on Emperor. Though I can finish a game with 1500 beakers available by around year 2000 (epic - turn 650 I think), I noticed that some people can get 1500 beakers by the time they reach Atomic Era. Some people can get Internet, which is a last tier tech, by year 1890. How is that possible? I run tall to avoid the 5% penalty and I can get GL most of my games too. I also go Rationalism all the way down.

Any suggestions to improve the tech speed? Remember, this is on Emperor.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I normally play standard, so I don't know how Epic pacing affects it, but I play immortal.

- Make sure you got your NC up ASAP. That's really vital, the +50% science bonus is incredible. 9 times out of 10, beeline pottery and then writing to get your library up ASAP. If you're managing to get the GL on Immortal (which can be quite difficult), use it to bulb Philosophy to get the NC. It's not recommended to delay at least your first expansion, but try to get it ASAP. Under 50 is pretty decent for Emperor, haven't played Emperor in a while so not 100% sure on what numbers people get there.

- Of course, beeline Education after that, getting some luxury resources and the like, but make sure you get Education as soon as realistically possible. The university is great, and the scientist specialist slot is your first GS generator. Very helpful!

- Especially with Babylon's initial GS, but with all GS up till at least public schools, lay them down, don't bulb them! Try and get them near your capital, as the 50% from NC there means they're even more effective.

- Save your GS for late game after you stop planting. Rush the techs at the end.

- At the start, when you're behind still you can try Research Agreements. They've been nerfed quite badly recently, so if you're ahead they're not as useful anymore.
 
Its not your tech speed, its just that on emperor the AI gets bonus techs to start with like like pottery and mining, etc. They receive more of a tech advantage the higher the difficulty.
 
Arcaian said:
I normally play standard, so I don't know how Epic pacing affects it, but I play immortal.

- Make sure you got your NC up ASAP. That's really vital, the +50% science bonus is incredible. 9 times out of 10, beeline pottery and then writing to get your library up ASAP. If you're managing to get the GL on Immortal (which can be quite difficult), use it to bulb Philosophy to get the NC. It's not recommended to delay at least your first expansion, but try to get it ASAP. Under 50 is pretty decent for Emperor, haven't played Emperor in a while so not 100% sure on what numbers people get there.

- Of course, beeline Education after that, getting some luxury resources and the like, but make sure you get Education as soon as realistically possible. The university is great, and the scientist specialist slot is your first GS generator. Very helpful!

- Especially with Babylon's initial GS, but with all GS up till at least public schools, lay them down, don't bulb them! Try and get them near your capital, as the 50% from NC there means they're even more effective.

- Save your GS for late game after you stop planting. Rush the techs at the end.

- At the start, when you're behind still you can try Research Agreements. They've been nerfed quite badly recently, so if you're ahead they're not as useful anymore.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I never saved my GS, I always burned them. I will create improvements with them in the beginning and save the other ones when higher techs are needed (Atomic Era and Information Era).

Do you guys know what happens with the extra beakers when you burn them to get a tech? Do they count for the next tech or you lose those?
 
The general rule of thumb is to plant GS's until you are close to public schools, then save the rest. This translates into planting 2 or sometimes 3, and bulbing the res late game. Wait for 8 turns after you have labs up and staffed in all cities, or even delay til after Atomic theory, then bulb them all off.

Yes, any spill over is saved, this is true for beakers, food, hammers, etc.

Getting 1500 bpt means getting 6ish tall cities. You cap will make ~650, the rest all comes from expos. 6 tall cities is difficult because of happiness issues, and is ironically easier on higher difficulty because the AI is better about expanding and getting luxuries up for trade. I sand-bag on Emperor a lot, and I find it very hard to get 6 very tall cities because the AI takes freaking forever to connect extra luxuries.

EDIT:
Also, try skipping the GL altogether. Trying to get the GL, NC, Oracle, and 3ish settlers out by T100 will kill your growth horribly, and if you go any slower on the wonders or settlers the AI will get them.
 
you don't really ever need 1500 BPT, at least for culture. You can get internet before turn 300 with only 1,000 BPT.

great scientist spam is a HUGE part of it...I suspect after applying the rules outlined by Joshua above, you'll find it makes a massive difference.

Would also recommend stockpiling faith. If you're going to be completing rationalism buying a few more scientists is always nice. Faith scientists don't increase the cost of regular scientists, so it's kind of ideal to have strong inputs for both categories.
 
Isnt there one of the policies that doubles output of tile improvements? That would surely help maximise the academies?
Also go with many trade posts later on - perhaps even replacing farms?
 
I play as Egypt and here is my Emperor build queue:
Monument->Scout->Granary->GL->Stonehenge->Pyramids->NC->Oracle->Great Wall
All this is done by turn 100, by which I should have generated 1 GE, and gotten 1 from the liberty finisher to use on other wonders. I then pump out another setller giving me a 3 city empire that as long as it's coastal will grow quite tall thus generating shed-loads of science when the appropriate buildings are built.
 
All great advise, but just to be sure when you get universities to staff them with 2 scientist. Also when planting GS be sure to go into the city screen and lock them down. Same goes for Public Schools and Research labs. Also if you have jungle tiles, don't chop them (even Bananas) unless vital for defense or something. you also get extra science from excess happiness, not sure how that works though.
 
Keep your money safe to purchase scientific building instead of hard building them. It's around 20 to 30 turn saved.

Manage your cities manually. Don't let the governor choose worked tiles. Attribute ASAP specialist. Save GW after completing Tradition/Liberty to rush Rationalism and Secularism.

Go tall. Try to keep a growth in all cities every 10 turn max, less is better.

Spend money in RA, ASAP and with all civ. You'll have a lot of friends.
For fast money, sell your luxuries ressources to AI (fast cash, not gpt).

I tried hard on Emperor to win SVbefore T 300, but failed. I succed in Immortal, thanks to caravan and AI tech lead in the beginning and middle game. When you stole Printing press or Astronomy and Architecture or Banking on the way of Public schools, you saved another 10/12 turns.

Actually, my main difficulty is having coal or aluminium in my zone of control. Since a long, time, I need to warry or spend money in CS to have access to them (Back to Civ 3).
 
Memoryjar said:
Keep your money safe to purchase scientific building instead of hard building them. It's around 20 to 30 turn saved.

Manage your cities manually. Don't let the governor choose worked tiles. Attribute ASAP specialist. Save GW after completing Tradition/Liberty to rush Rationalism and Secularism.

Go tall. Try to keep a growth in all cities every 10 turn max, less is better.

Spend money in RA, ASAP and with all civ. You'll have a lot of friends.
For fast money, sell your luxuries ressources to AI (fast cash, not gpt).

I tried hard on Emperor to win SVbefore T 300, but failed. I succed in Immortal, thanks to caravan and AI tech lead in the beginning and middle game. When you stole Printing press or Astronomy and Architecture or Banking on the way of Public schools, you saved another 10/12 turns.

Actually, my main difficulty is having coal or aluminium in my zone of control. Since a long, time, I need to warry or spend money in CS to have access to them (Back to Civ 3).
Click to expand...

You sure you still want to recommend research agreements after BNW and the fall patch?
 
For 250 to 400 gold and some other stuffs, it's at least 2 or 3 turns saved. So, yes, I still recommand them.

I'm looking for a comparaison between with or without RA. If someone try without, I'll hear carefully his experience.
 
Mid-game RA's are still very much worth doing on anything above King (maybe including king at times). Late game RA's are worth doing on Deity, and sometimes Immortal. Even if you only get 1 turn off a tech, saving 10-15 turns is worthwhile if you can afford it. 300gold + 200gold bribe is painful on lower difficulty where the economy sucks - it is probably better to save the gold and buy CS's and use scholasticism for extra beakers. Deau experimented with it and has some numbers, hopefully he will weigh in on the value of scholasticism on lower difficulty
 
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