Sarin
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,287
I've been missing quite a lot of units in CivV, and been bothered by some inaccuracies. I'm not a modder myself, so this is just throwing some ideas in the air and seeing what'll stick with someone.
What I've been missing a lot are light infantry and light cavalry units. Through history, these units were very important and common elements of militaries worldwide. I'll skip the light cavalry for now-Doctor McGann is actually working on those in this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=544094.
Light infantry, how I see them:
In general, light infantry is most mobile infantry element of army, filling in scouting, flanking and various irregular warfare roles in military. The line would originate from scouts, would share their ignore terrain cost promotion, and would, except for scout, have ranged attack with 1 tile range and move after attacking promotion. Also, if possible, these units would have melee attack possible in addition to ranged attack, although their melee strength would lie between melee infantry and ranged infantry of their era.
Units:
Skirmisher: Most nations around the world employed this kind of unit throughout anitquity and beyond. Skirmisher is, in most variations, a soldier equipped with clutch of javelins and a shield, fighting in irregular formation and relying on his speed, rather than armor, to avoid melee with heavy troops and disrupt enemy with ih javelins. In western world, skirmishers fell out of favor during middle ages, as they were vulnerable to cavalry, and therefore, this unit would last from antiquity up to gunpowder.
Light infantry: When gunpowder weapons became mainstay of armies, light infantry reemerged. British Rangers, German and Austrian Jaegers and similar troops were important elements of armies. Fighting in irregular companies, rather than regiments of line infantry, these troops scouted the battlefield, sowed confusion with flanking fire and eliminated important targets with precision fire outside of reach of common troops. Several battles were decided when general fell by a shot fired by such marksman.
Commando: In WWI and beyond, commando units emerged as continuation of light infantry, adding infiltration, sabotage and even direct assault into their repertoire. The units could be based on german Sturmtruppen.
Special Forces: This would represent various special units like SEALs, Spetsnaz, Rangers. Nuff said.
Naval changes: what I don't like about navy in CivV, besides the historical inaccuracies, is how melee ships become useless after modern era, and all your veterans from pre-atomic ages get stuck on modern level, and you have to build your atomic/information age navy from the scratch.
Ancient/classical era changes:
Quinquiremes would become common, heavy ships of the era, parallel to triremes. In real life, the naval supremacy of Carthage was very brief-in first Punic War, Rome quickly built up and eventually defeated the Carthage. Althouh quinquireme is of Carthagian origin, it quickly became common heavy ship of the fleets of antiquity. In game, it would be slower ship than trireme, but with 1 tile ranged attack and packing quite a punch. Carthage would recieve, if the light cavalry mod was included, replacement for skirmisher cavalry-Numidian cavalry. Or possibly, they could get UB. My idea would be mercenary post-lowers buying costs of all land units in addition to common +15XP (Carthage's armies were mostly composed of mercenaries and soldiers from Carthage's allies, like Lybian, Iberian and Numidian tribes).
classical/early medieval:
Dromon would become light ship upgrade to trieme. As heavy ship, Cog would fit in well. It was a common ship along the Atlantic coast and beyond, usually filling in both trader and warship roles.
Late medieval:
As Dromon would upgrade to Caravel, the heavy ship role would be filled by Carrack. Since this is actually Nau, it would have to be replaced by Galleon as unique ship. It is first heavy ship with 2 range.
Renaissance:
This one is first of naval headaches. Frigates would become light ships, in parallel with Privateer. Slightly stronger, slightly slower and without Prize Ships promotion. British unique Ship of the Line would become what Frigate is now-a heavy, ranged ship. British would recieve its unique replacement, Man-o-war. It would be just stronger than common SoL.
Industrial/modern. A second headache. Frigates and Privateers would upgrade to Ironclads. Although here, the game shows obvious american centrism. In common military terminology, ironclads were steam or steam-and-sail powered ships of late 18th-19th century with armored hull, in game they represent only coastal, monitor type vessels used during US civil war. Still...taking the path of least resistance, I'd suggest keeping them this way.
The heavy role would be filled by Dreadnought. Although the unit would represent steam battleships of 19th and early 20th century, not just Dreadnought type battleships, this inaccuracy looks like path of least resistance.
Submarines would get some changes too. They would no longer be able to detect and attack other submarines better than other non-melee ships (in both world wars, only once had one submerged submarine attacked and destroyed other submerged submarine), lose 1 range, but will gain "move after attack" promotion.
Atomic and beyond:
Battleships would be upgradeable to missile cruisers, who would lose most of their anti-air and all anti-sub capabilities, but gain expanded missile stores. Atomic subs would regain the sub detecting capabilities that regular subs lost, but not the range.
And destroyers would upgrade to Modern Frigate. This represents common frigates of most navies, and would, like destroyers, provide most of anti-air and anti-sub capabilites of fleet.
This brings me to last change, aerial warfare. What I'd like to see are these new units:
Naval fighter. Almost as long range as bomber, better anti-ground but slightly worse anti-air capabilites than fighter. This upgrades to naval jet fighter.
Stealth bombers would lose some strength, and new unit would be introduced. Strategic bomber. Visually probably based on B-52, it will have 2 extra range compared to Stealth bomber and its former strength, but would be vulnerable to interception.
This is just a rough draft for now. If someone is interested in picking this up, I'll be up for some more brainstorming and looking for proper background information, like images/models of the units.
What I've been missing a lot are light infantry and light cavalry units. Through history, these units were very important and common elements of militaries worldwide. I'll skip the light cavalry for now-Doctor McGann is actually working on those in this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=544094.
Light infantry, how I see them:
In general, light infantry is most mobile infantry element of army, filling in scouting, flanking and various irregular warfare roles in military. The line would originate from scouts, would share their ignore terrain cost promotion, and would, except for scout, have ranged attack with 1 tile range and move after attacking promotion. Also, if possible, these units would have melee attack possible in addition to ranged attack, although their melee strength would lie between melee infantry and ranged infantry of their era.
Units:
Skirmisher: Most nations around the world employed this kind of unit throughout anitquity and beyond. Skirmisher is, in most variations, a soldier equipped with clutch of javelins and a shield, fighting in irregular formation and relying on his speed, rather than armor, to avoid melee with heavy troops and disrupt enemy with ih javelins. In western world, skirmishers fell out of favor during middle ages, as they were vulnerable to cavalry, and therefore, this unit would last from antiquity up to gunpowder.
Light infantry: When gunpowder weapons became mainstay of armies, light infantry reemerged. British Rangers, German and Austrian Jaegers and similar troops were important elements of armies. Fighting in irregular companies, rather than regiments of line infantry, these troops scouted the battlefield, sowed confusion with flanking fire and eliminated important targets with precision fire outside of reach of common troops. Several battles were decided when general fell by a shot fired by such marksman.
Commando: In WWI and beyond, commando units emerged as continuation of light infantry, adding infiltration, sabotage and even direct assault into their repertoire. The units could be based on german Sturmtruppen.
Special Forces: This would represent various special units like SEALs, Spetsnaz, Rangers. Nuff said.
Naval changes: what I don't like about navy in CivV, besides the historical inaccuracies, is how melee ships become useless after modern era, and all your veterans from pre-atomic ages get stuck on modern level, and you have to build your atomic/information age navy from the scratch.
Ancient/classical era changes:
Quinquiremes would become common, heavy ships of the era, parallel to triremes. In real life, the naval supremacy of Carthage was very brief-in first Punic War, Rome quickly built up and eventually defeated the Carthage. Althouh quinquireme is of Carthagian origin, it quickly became common heavy ship of the fleets of antiquity. In game, it would be slower ship than trireme, but with 1 tile ranged attack and packing quite a punch. Carthage would recieve, if the light cavalry mod was included, replacement for skirmisher cavalry-Numidian cavalry. Or possibly, they could get UB. My idea would be mercenary post-lowers buying costs of all land units in addition to common +15XP (Carthage's armies were mostly composed of mercenaries and soldiers from Carthage's allies, like Lybian, Iberian and Numidian tribes).
classical/early medieval:
Dromon would become light ship upgrade to trieme. As heavy ship, Cog would fit in well. It was a common ship along the Atlantic coast and beyond, usually filling in both trader and warship roles.
Late medieval:
As Dromon would upgrade to Caravel, the heavy ship role would be filled by Carrack. Since this is actually Nau, it would have to be replaced by Galleon as unique ship. It is first heavy ship with 2 range.
Renaissance:
This one is first of naval headaches. Frigates would become light ships, in parallel with Privateer. Slightly stronger, slightly slower and without Prize Ships promotion. British unique Ship of the Line would become what Frigate is now-a heavy, ranged ship. British would recieve its unique replacement, Man-o-war. It would be just stronger than common SoL.
Industrial/modern. A second headache. Frigates and Privateers would upgrade to Ironclads. Although here, the game shows obvious american centrism. In common military terminology, ironclads were steam or steam-and-sail powered ships of late 18th-19th century with armored hull, in game they represent only coastal, monitor type vessels used during US civil war. Still...taking the path of least resistance, I'd suggest keeping them this way.
The heavy role would be filled by Dreadnought. Although the unit would represent steam battleships of 19th and early 20th century, not just Dreadnought type battleships, this inaccuracy looks like path of least resistance.
Submarines would get some changes too. They would no longer be able to detect and attack other submarines better than other non-melee ships (in both world wars, only once had one submerged submarine attacked and destroyed other submerged submarine), lose 1 range, but will gain "move after attack" promotion.
Atomic and beyond:
Battleships would be upgradeable to missile cruisers, who would lose most of their anti-air and all anti-sub capabilities, but gain expanded missile stores. Atomic subs would regain the sub detecting capabilities that regular subs lost, but not the range.
And destroyers would upgrade to Modern Frigate. This represents common frigates of most navies, and would, like destroyers, provide most of anti-air and anti-sub capabilites of fleet.
This brings me to last change, aerial warfare. What I'd like to see are these new units:
Naval fighter. Almost as long range as bomber, better anti-ground but slightly worse anti-air capabilites than fighter. This upgrades to naval jet fighter.
Stealth bombers would lose some strength, and new unit would be introduced. Strategic bomber. Visually probably based on B-52, it will have 2 extra range compared to Stealth bomber and its former strength, but would be vulnerable to interception.
This is just a rough draft for now. If someone is interested in picking this up, I'll be up for some more brainstorming and looking for proper background information, like images/models of the units.
