Improved Mesoamerican Conquest

I have restarted this mod. Please see post 22 and following for changes.

Here's another idea that I've come up with of late. I feel the need for an
improvement on the Mesoamerican conquest. Here are a few areas that I feel need improved:

- Larger, more accurate map
- More civs
- replacement of units with custom made ones, addition of a few units as well.

The map will be 128 x 128 - nearly twice the size of the original. (But will cover the exact same area)

Playable factions I think should be all the civs. Here is my civ list:

Aztecs
Toltecs
Zapotecs
Mayans
Olmecs
Inca
Moche

Carib?
Arawak?
Tarascans?
Teotihuacan?

I'm hoping each civ can also have it's own UU.

I've also decided I don't really want to mess around with the tech tree, or the units (much). There are alot of custom made mesoamerican unit graphics that could replace the standard ones used in the conquest. Also, there will need to be the addition of a few more. Here's what I have for changed / new units:

Changed Units

- Warrior (use mesoamerican warrior)
- Archer (use Incan slinger)
- Spearman (use native american spearman)
- Temple Guard (use mesoamerican spearman)
- Quetzal Bowman (use AoK mayan plumed archer)
- Silent Hunter (use civ3 jaguar warrior)

Unique Units

Aztecs: Jaguar Warrior (use AoK jaguar warrior)
Toltecs: Eagle Warrior (use AoK eagle warrior)
Zapotecs: Atl Atl (use civ3 mayan javelin thrower)
Mayans: Ah Kuy (use Ah Kuy)
Olmecs: Olmec Warrior *Need Better Name!* (use civ3 impi)
Inca: Inti Warrior (use Inti Warrior)
Moche: Chasqui Scout
Tenochtitlan: Ocelot Warrior (use ???)
Carib: ???
Arawak: ???
Tarascans: ??? *should be a good defensive unit*

Now I need help. I need some info about some of the civs, and I need to fill in those missing units spots, also, what would be good stats for the new units?

Does this sound like a good idea? I look forward to any feedback you may have.

I think it's a good idea, but a version with the original map should also be made.

Alright. I'll do that too.

Here's a preview of the new map - but that's about as much as I can do on my own now. I need help with the things I said above

That's a very good idea. The new map looks excellent

And now, we have a lot of city graphics for that area

I think you need maize and tomato as ressources, but also coconut in the Antilles.

There is maize already in that conquest.

Do something about the SH. It's broken in the original Conquest.

SH? (ten chars)

I think I should add Teotihuacan as a civ as well. They were possibly the greatest mesoamerican civilization ever, and although we don't know who they were or much about them at all, they lasted much longer and possibly controlled much more territory than the Aztecs or Toltecs. Their fall could even be one of the reasons for the decline of the Maya.
I didn't mention them before because I thought they would be too close to the Aztecs on the map. But upon reflection, I definately will include Teotihuacan. - however, they are terribly close to the Aztecs on the map... and if I can't find enough info on them.. I'll have to leave them out
I'm still not sure about the Arawak or the Carib however, as they're not really mesoamerican, but they are good space fillers.

... and what is SH

The real problem is that the people of Teotihuacan came WAY before the Aztecs.... that's the main problem I see with this scenario... you're including people from all different time periods... some of whom occupied the same space. My suggestion is if you're going to start from one specific date, use only those civilizations that were in existence at that date.

Well, the conquest starts in 300 CE, but that would rule out playing pracically everyone but the Mayans and Teotihuacan. Yet, the conquest still includes Aztecs and Incans, even though they came centuries later. Yah, I am trying to include all the great mesoamerican civs from all ages pre classic to post classic. So I guess the problem is my fault.

How about this: I space out the Aztec and Teotihuacan civs on the map - slightly inacurate, but it works. (I did a similar thing with the Toltecs: Instead of placing them at Tula, where their greater civilization was - but is also too close to the Aztecs - I put them at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan, while the Maya now start at Copan.)

RedAlert said:

Well, the conquest starts in 300 CE, but that would rule out playing pracically everyone but the Mayans and Teotihuacan. Yet, the conquest still includes Aztecs and Incans, even though they came centuries later. Yah, I am trying to include all the great mesoamerican civs from all ages pre classic to post classic. So I guess the problem is my fault.

How about this: I space out the Aztec and Teotihuacan civs on the map - slightly inacurate, but it works. (I did a similar thing with the Toltecs: Instead of placing them at Tula, where their greater civilization was - but is also too close to the Aztecs - I put them at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan, while the Maya now start at Copan.)

Click to expand...

There is yet another option... the people who would become the Aztecs were still in existence in 300 CE but much farther north... maybe put the Aztecs farther to the north like in the Sierra Madres?


EDIT: I remember I played that Conquest once... I made the Toltecs my whores... I remained in a perpetual state of war with them, allowed them to have like two cities and then continually enslaved the crummy soldiers they'd send after me and shipped them off to be sacrificed...

The Last Conformist said:

Do something about the SH. It's broken in the original Conquest.

Click to expand...

I guess he means the Silent Hunter unit...but since I haven't played the MesAm Conquest I have no idea whats wrong with it.Only special thing about it is it can perform stealth attacks.

That could be it... but what does he mean by 'broken' ??

Here are my 2 cents.... b4 the spanish arrived there was a decendents of the aztec/nahua people who streched from western el salvador to parts of honduras,guatemela,and sur mexico. some sites found around the el salvador are cuzcatlan,tazumal/chalchuapa,sonsonate,ahauchapan,san andreas,cihuatan and dozens of others, they could be a civ in this scenario 2. With the leader as Atlactl who rose a stiff resistance against the spanish b4 they were finally enslaved. But some people miss the fact that when the spanish arrived the mayan civilization had long evaporated and the incan civilization was suffering from civil war and vastly weakend from foreign diseases,so maybe you could use the black death option to simmulate that.

i wanted to add some pics but i dont kno how

I think Kinboat made a Jaguar and Eagle warrior that looks better than the AoK convertions.

BTW good idea to improve this conquest

You're going to run short on leaderheads unless you do something different than the normal animated ones. Heck, they ran out in the normal conquest. Maybe use some cool wall-paintings or something? Those still have personality.

Anyway, good idea. I wish we could get a good movement going to improve all the conquests. I tried to start with the Mesopotamian one, but I never seem to have the time.

k here's some pics ive had for awhile on my pc

@ blunt3d: thanks very much, those are great pictures

@ thestonesfan: Well, I have a few leaderheads in mind... but, if I can't find all I need, just static pics sound like a good idea.

And sorry for the late reply.

I'm going to try to organize here civ stats and unit stats. As mentioned before, I am no good at all with deciding unit stats, so if anyone could help me, I'd appreciate it. Anyway else anyone would want to contribute would be appreciated as well.

I've made a final decision about civs: There will be 10: 6 for mexico area and 4 for andes area. They are:
Mexico: Aztecs, Teotihuacan, Toltecs, Olmecs, Zapotecs, Maya
Andes: Inca, Chimu, Huari, Tiahuanaco

Aztecs

Leader: Huey Tlatoani Moctezuma

Traits: Militaristic, Agricultural

UU: Jaguar Warrior

Cities:
Tenochtitlan
Tlateloco
Tlacopan
Texcoco
Teotihuacan
Tula
Azcapotzalco
Tenayuacan
Xochimilco
Atlapulco
Tezompa
Chalco
Ixtapalucan
Zapotitlan
Tepeyacac
Coyohuacan
Cuautitlan
Coyotepec
Citlaltepec
Tizayuacan
Xoloc
Tepexpan
Tajin
Tamuin
Zimapan
Tepozitlan
Xochicalco
Malinalco
Tetela
Zacatula
Nochcoc
Acapulco
Ayutla
Yanhuitlan
Quetzaltepec
Tepeaca
Tiayo
Ixhuatan
Jalapa
Orizaba
Mixtlan
Cempoala
Huiztlan
Mazatlan

MGLs: Ahuitzotl, Itzcóatl, Acamapichtli, Axayacatl, Tizoc, Huitzilhuitl, Chimalpopoca, Maxtla, Nezahualcóyotl, Nezahualpilli

SGLs: Chichatoyotl, Textalatzin, Quakeotzlitopotec

Teotihuacan

Leader: Kalomte Spearthrower Owl

Traits: Militaristic, Industrious

UU: Jaguar of Fire (hopefully using the Aztec swordsman requested by Sword of Geddon)

Cities:
Teotihuacan
Tikal
Uaxactun
Texcoco
Chalpultepec
Culhuacan
Xico
Chiconautla
Teoloyucan
Xaloztoc
Tlaxcala
Cholula
Xocotla
Teotitlan
Chiapa de Corzo
Cuicuilco
Trapiche
Tehuacan
Tlatilco
Tlapacoya
Bocas
Gualupita
Chalcatzinco
Viejon
Oxtotitlan
Juxtiahuaca

MGLs: Siyah K'ak', Smoking Frog

SGLs: ???

Toltecs

Leader: Ce Acatl Topiltzin

Traits: Religious, Expansionist

UU: Eagle Warrior

Cities:
Tula
Chichen Itza
Tollantzinco
Mayapan
Tzintzuntzan
Atlacomulco
Calixtlahuaca
Malinalco
Xochicalco
Tepozitlan
Tetzmoliuhuacan
Zacatollan
Itztepetl
Teul
Quemada
Flores
Cempoala
Atazta
Quirigua
Balankanche
Motul
Izamal

MGLs: Chalchiuh Tlatonac, Mixcoamazatzin, Huetzin, Mixcoatl, Ihuitimal, Matlacxochitzin, Nauhyotzin, Matlacoatzin, Tlilcoatzin, Huemac

SGLs: Cipactli, Oxomoco, Huitzilopochtli

Olmecs

Leader: Jaguar Po Ngbe

Traits: Commercial, Agricultural

UU: Ocelot Warrior

Cities:
La Venta
Tres Zapotes
Cerros
Limas
Lorenzo
Tlatilco
Tlapacoya
Gualupita
Chalcatzinco
Bocas
Viejon
Oxtotitlan
Juxtiahuaca
Monte Negro
Limas
Piedra
Pijijiapan
Balancan
Xoc
Abaj Takalik
Izapa
Chalchuapa

MGLs: Harvest Mountain Lord, U-Kix-chan, Yo Pe

SGLs: Xolotl, Itzcatl, Mixcoatl

Zapotecs

Leader: ???

Traits: Industrious, Commercial

UU: ???

Cities:
Monte Alban
Monte Negro
Mogote
Dainzu
Mitla
Zaachila
Quetzaltepec
Ixtayutlan
Tututepec
Pochutlan
Yagul
Lambityeco

MGLs: ???

SGLs: ???

Maya

Leader: King Pacal

Traits: Scientific, Agricultural

UU: Ah Kuy