GOTM 37 Second (and final) Spoiler.

ainwood

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This is the final spoiler for GOTM 37: Iroquois

I am trying a bit of an experiment here. With so many games going on each month, it seems that people don't really have the desire / time to write three spoilers. So for this game, we'll limit it to two in an effort to get a bit more concentrated discussions.

Qualification for this spoiler is to have reached the Industrial age, or finished the game and submitted.
 
To honor our departing comrade Megalou, i will edit this post by creating paragraphs.

In the first spoiler france was destroyed when i reached the MA. I got chivalry from the GL in Paris so I regrouped and started upgrading my mounted warriors.

Carthage
According to the map i should attack carthage but they had the great wall. So I hesitated for a while. When I got theology from the GL i checked who had that one. It turned out to be carthage and persia. I was still at war with persia, but no hostilities had taken place between us. They must fear my city at the chokepoint: on a hill with walls and some 7 fortified spearman/pikeman. I dowed carthage and used theology to bring in india, arabia and rome. With germany i renewed our ma against persia, though germany was losing the war. Rome was down to some 2 cities and altough at war with both germany and persia was not wiped out. I gifted paris (great lib) to india. I toke three outlaying carthagian cities, resulting in another great leader but at the same time destroying nearly half my army. My reinforcement consist of expensive nights so the war is slowing down. Then suddenly arabia joins the persian cause and dows on me. I hastedly bring in gandhi on my side against arabia. Gandhi and I silently agree that gandhis elefants beat up carthage and I concentrate on arabia. Attacking arabias uu is less risky than attacking fortified num.merc.s in towns with walls. In 330AD india destroys the carthagians.

Arabia and India
Now gandhi and i are beating up arabia. The war is getting along well, but Persia has cavalry and is running out of opposition on his side. In 500AD they land a few cavalries and muskets near my capitol. They are out of range of my nights who are regrouping in order to backstab gandhi. The X-man and me make peace and i attack india. With the retaking of paris i get quite a few discoveries but no cavalry, not even metallurgy. So for the first time i start to learn: metallurgy. I continue to be fortunate with great leaders: sistine's, army, forbidden palace, smith's, copernicus, heroic epic and shakespeare. All but FP are build in salamanca and i'm going for 20K. In 780 i make peace with gandhi and in 790 i destroy him. The germans are also gone by then, so to the right all's green except three cities, 2 roman and 1 arabian. In 840 i enter the IA. In 850 I make peace with arabia for two of the three cities they have, including a city on a small island. In 860 i destroy arabia. On the left side all's purple except two cities i gifted rome because i could not defend them against gandhi.

Persia
In 890 i dow persia and stay indoors to await the persian onslaught. After three turns I've killed some 30 persian cavalry and some 20 other units. And than it looks to me that they have exhausted their reserves. I attack their nearest town and discover the first persian infantry. Now the war will be slow and decided by production. Persia is defending its cities on average with 4 infantry and 1 cavalry. I attack each city with some 24 cavalry: i normally lose 6 cavalry and about 10 will retreat. I destory each captured city, except three with important wonders (berlin, persopolis, susa). In between we have a 20 turn peace in which i build factories and banks, and gift the persians the island city. At this moment it's time for ceasar to leave. I kept him around incase things would get nasty with persia and i have to make a run for a diplo.Than the war starts again and lasts until 1600 when the persians are finally kicked off the mainland. From then on i concentrate on building culture in salamanca which finally results in a 20k in 1892: firaxis 8311, jason 6915. My first win on deity.
 
Ptw Predator

Ancient Age

I entered the MA 1075 AD being at war with Arabia and Persia.
I intended to go for Persia with the Great Library first, but it turned out that the other civs didn't let me.

In 1050 AD India, my ally in the arabian war, sneak attacked my city in the west.
The RNG was unfriendly. The first reg warrior killed the reg spear in this hill town.
Six more warriors would come next turn, with only one warrior still defending.
I gifted the town to France so I could at least save the warrior and a worker.

So the target changed to India first, while just defending at the choke.
I took 2 towns with swords and razed Delhi in 730BC. On this attack I also started the Golden Age.
With the increased gpt I traded for republic and immediately revolted.

My empire in 710BC:


In republic I was then able to trade for monotheism and engineering, which were afloat due to the scientific civs.
A little later I could also trade for feudalism and started the first and only high percent research for chivalry.


I really intended to go now for Persia in earnest, but was distracted again by a sneak attack of France in 550BC.
She took one of the former indian cities.
Nice effect was that I had major gpt payments to her, so I won quite a bit money.
I just defended against France, took the city back and made peace in 310 BC.
I then dogpiled everybody on Persia, in the hope that I now could go for them w/o further disturbance.
But now the weak Romans wanted war. I just took a spice city from them and settled some more cities around.

In 110BC I finally razed the first Persian town.
This spawned also my first leader, who formed a knight army.

The war progressed slowly, but steadily. I razed and replaced the first few cities, but kept several later.
I could trade up to military tradition in the meantime, so in the end I could fight with cavs.
The monopoly on chivalry had allowed me to get up to chemistry and some heavy lux and gpt deal gave metallurgy and MT.

In 350 AD I could capture Persepolis with the Great Library.
In the next interturn I rode the elevator all the way to IA including nationalism.
Carthage and France were the tech leaders that had reached the IA.

Now it was decision time what victory condition to pursue.
I was at tech parity with the leaders, but nobody else had money to spare.
Germany was getting big in the east and would probably become a problem soon.
I decided to do what I can best, that's go for domination or conquest and use diplomatics so that others do the most fighting for me.

I gifted Germany in the IA and could trade for their free medicine.
Then I made MPPs with France, Carthage and Arabia and gave Germany the boot order for his troops.
As expected Bismarck declared and he soon had a lot enemies.
I unplugged the choke so that my friends could get their troops into Germany.
That took quite some time, because only one nation could use the choke at a time.
So initially only Carthage was involved, some time later France and finally also Arabia got their troops over.

I didn't do much in Germany initially, but instead finished Persia and prepared the land there.
A leader jumped the palace into a new city near the former (now razed) Persepolis.
I could trade for steam power shortly after that and started railing like crazy.

610AD:

Around 600AD, I had connected my empire and the cores where mainly improved, so now I followed my friends into Germany and took several cities.
The counterattacks were mainly handled by the friendly troops around.

730AD:


In 730AD Germany was about to be destroyed by Carthage, but I had most of the former german land.

Carthage was the next target.
I looked to have MPPs and RoP with everybody else, then made them furious by demands and got them to declare by a failed immediate tech steal.
With everybody except Carthage able to use my rail network, they nicely defended my lands.
I just took one or two carthaginian cites per turn.

850AD:

In 850AD Carthage was destroyed and I was at 67% territory, but the game didn't end.
Obviously I didn't have enough population, even though I had joined workers everywhere.
A quick war against the still weak Indians fixed that, so I got domination in 870AD.
 
We go into the Middle ages in 750BC after capturing the Great Library from the French. Persia had just sneak attacked and razed our bridge city. I have all of my forces on the road to paris, but of course have to divert some swords for immortal killing duty.

Technology
After some centuries of war with France, Persia, Carthage and Germany (see below) it finally calms down a bit and I start revolution for Republic in 430BC. Golden Age triggered in 410BC, entering a reasonable peaceful era of building marketplaces and libraries. Goal is to get to MT before firing the scientists.

There was however a minor detail I forgot. Having the Great Library gave me Chivalry very early. Something I would probably not have researched for a long time if at all. This means that after I triggered GA, I can no longer build cheap Mounted Warrier. I need to make heavy invest in Knights. Not good, I would have liked to build hordes of MW until Cav and then mass upgrade.

I get Invention from GL in 330BC.

I get Education from GL in 230BC.
I see that Persia already has Gunpowder so I start researching Music Theory and hopefully I will be able to trade it around in 8 turns.

Discover Music Theory in 90BC. I trade it around for Gunpowder and a total of around 50gpt.

Discover Metallurgy in 250AD. Decision time. Do I trade the goods to Persia for Banking + 80gpt + 120g? I decide to trade it around. Beating the AI on research on this level is probably not something I should even attempt. Shouldnt have done it, Persia declare next turn :mad:

Discover Military Tradition in 330AD. No trading.


WAR
In 730BC I traded Monarchy to Carthage for Dyes, and we already have an alliance with them against France. Next turn I say WOW! Carthage breaks our alliance and joins Persians in their war against me. I should maybe have included ROP in the deal last turn. Hmmm ... have no defense on that side, and 3 cities will fall in next couple of turns, a 4th is very vulnerable. In addition Tours flips back to French. I am getting very bad vibes here. My forces will VERY soon be VERY stretched.

So in 690BC I create an alliance with Arabia against Carthage. I give them Furs + 17gpt. Except the fur is cancelled the moment they go to war against carthage since the road connection is going through Carthage. The carthaginian traitors start taking my cities.

In 610BC I finally manage to take back two cities that Carthage took just after declaring on me. The war in France is going ok, we have taken two more cities. Persia have rounded up Germany in their war against me. This is getting hot. Persia themselves are finally ready to talk and I cave in to any desire they have. They let me have peace for 9gpt. I am not ready to face those Immortals.

I get my first Leader in 550BC from attack on numedian! I rush Zun Tsu in Salamanca. I take Paris, French left with 2 cities.

I get my second Leader in 490BC from attack on numedian! I move him towards Paris to create a new core there. I take back the third and fourth city taken by Carthage. This very tight war with Carthage has been rewarding, but cities have changed hands several times. I have lost and retaken at least 4 cities. I dont have any more units for the moment. Need to make peace with Carthage. I make peace with Germany around that time, after they made me abandon a city close to a lux.

France is eliminated in 350BC. This marks the start of a rather long period of peace and quiet. Until...

The forever evil Persia declare war on me in 260AD. The turn before I had traded Metallurgy to them for 80 gpt. All in all I had almost 100gpt from them. They screwed me over and will regret it.

In 340AD I have 42 Knights and I upgrade all of them for 800g after getting MT. I feel the carthaginians 'yearn' to be with me. They look like sitting ducks, and will be good target practice before going for the fiend Persia.

I start my bid for the continent in 340AD by going to war with carthage. I take 4 Carthaginians size 12 cities (income increased by 60 to 368gpt).

I see that the Persians have gone into Industrial Era. With a little luck they dont have Riflemen yet.

In 350AD I took 2 more Carthaginian cities. After taking the capital nothing much remains of carthage. I send off some horsies to finish their far off cities.

In 430AD I have razed my first Persian city, but to considerable losses. And to my despair they must have gotten Nationalism as free tech because riflemen are all over the place.

470AD: Raze two more Persian cities with minimum losses. Working my way doen towards Persepolis, razing as I go. Settlers will soon arrive.

550AD: Our first siege on Persepolis has failed. The feeble remains of my cavalry forces are all redlined, and my cav army is dead. Need to find shelter.

590AD: Finally managed to raze Persepolis.

600AD: Raze also the new Persian capital. Persians give me Physics for peace.

670AD: I make the deal of the century with the Arabs. For Theory of Gravity I give them 310g + silks + spices + 632gpt. And then I ROP rape them and take 5 cities. I had a mutual protection pact with India, so they are also at war with Arabs.

730AD: I take the last Arab town and give them peace (must have a swimming settler) for Magnetism. I enter IA.

760AD: Hmmm... The two remaining nations India and Germany just signed a Mutual Protection Pact. I also have an MPP with India.

780AD: All my dilemmas answer themselves. Germans demand Dyes and I refuse. They declare and take around 7 undefended cities :sad:

790AD: Germans have taken another 7 cities. Old Persian ground was totally undefefended and is turning germanic blue at the moment. I am getting all troops over but it takes time. I retake a couple of cities.

810AD: We have secured our cities and added a couple more.

820AD: Party on. The darned Indians declare on me, and I have all military on other side of continent to fight Germans. I must be getting close to domination limit. Gandhi takes a couple of cities.

830AD: I give Germans peace and I send my forces back to defend my core which is completely stripped for military. Seems like a typical priority task.

890AD: After several turns where cities along the coast change hands and after I manage to take a couple of core Indian cities - DOMINATION !!!

Firaxis score: 10065
Jason score: 10578

Lots of fun! The AI showed real initiative. In hindsight I think I maybe should have taken at least one of India / Arabia before taking on Persia, since they were not yet in Industrial Era. Seen the few number of turns necessary to take Carthage it would have been smart to take them before being bogged down in a difficult war with rifle equipped Persians. But my doubt was what would happen if I left Persia unchecked for too long.
 
Open PTW

Ancient Age

This has been my most enjoyable GOTM/COTM to date - due to the AI being able to put up better resistance. We were in a very privileged start, particularly with the advantages of the choke, the accessible important AA resources, and the distance to the nearest AI civs at the start. I didn't fully appreciate the latest one of those advantages until the replay at the very end, but clearly this gave us more time to build up a better core before the inevitable warmongering began!

In 1000BC we entered the MA, still in despotism. In 850BC, I was able to trade for monarchy (plus monotheism and literature), and revolted immediately. As discussed in the pre-game discussion, I went for an early monarchy, and later revolted to republic. I then concentrated on building up a force of MWs, because we had run out of space to expand into.

670BC:

In 670BC we were ready for war. I only had 7 MWs at this time, but more were on the way, and I figured with a GA we would be able to continue to expand our forces. It seemed that France was the intended whipping boy, but they had just built the Great Wall, and besides, Carthage had better, more fertile lands, and a lux just over the borders. Normally I wouldn't attack another civ when their UU is in its heyday, but the only other reasonable option was India, and that would have left me with a very long thin border to both Carthage and France. I had locked off the choke with a walled city with the intention of finishing business on this side first. So Carthage was chosen.

The war was very slow, because this triggered Carthage's GA as well, but I eventually achieved my war objectives by shaving off three bordering Carthaginian cities, and replacing them with four of my own cities. In 390BC we gave peace to Carthage.
390BC:

It actually turned out to be quite convenient to stop this Carthage war at this point, because they built the Great Library and Sun Tzu's in their next two cities. During this war we had traded for engineering, feudalism, chivalry and the republic. The peace deal with Carthage secured Invention for us as well.

India made the next logical target and were declared on in 230BC. I only saw two elephants from them during the course of this war, but they did have muskets. and had occupied the little island way out west, thanks to the great lighthouse. In 110AD, we finally took the last Indian mainland city, and gave peace for amongst other things, gunpowder.
110AD:

The Indian War gave us JS Bach's and the Great Lighthouse, although the latter subsequently flipped to the French!

Just after this, the most powerful nation in the world, the Persians sneak attacked us, but the choke held. I was able to get the Germans, the Romans, the French and the Arabs in on this for gpt deals. I deliberately didn't bother with the Carthaginians or the Indians. In the end, the Persians brought in the Indians on their side, but the Arabs went over and conquered their last city. The French and Arab efforts against the Persians were fairly meaningless, of course, since they couldn't get past my choke city, but the point was to stop them declaring against me, and it worked well to this end. The world war also had the desired effect of slowing down the tech pace. At this point, we had started to fall behind somewhat.

Therefore, in 330AD, we redeclared on the Carthaginians, taking the Great Library first. I was expecting to go all the way into the IA, but it stopped just short. We got get printing press, education, banking, astronomy, chemistry, democracy, economics, navigation, physics, metallurgy, and theory of gravity. In particular, we didn't get magnetism, nor military tradition (even though I saw at least two civs with cavalry at the time!).

In 380AD, we secured military tradition off Rome in exchange for democracy, then in 400AD we picked up metallurgy off Persia for peace and democracy plus some cash. With cavs we were able to finish off Carthage by 420AD.
420AD:

Steam Power is the key to keeping up in the IA, and the fastest way to afford it was to MPP with Persia, so I did this in 400AD, as well. We also revolted to republic at this time - you have to love one turn anarchy!

In 450AD we declared on the Arabs, and finally got our first leader - used to jump the palace to the site of the former Carthaginian capital. The Arabs have rifles so it is slow progress. Then in 500AD, our MPP with Persia bites us, as the Persian's take an Arab city, and the French attack! As we are desperately in need of defenders now, I decide to give peace and 197gpt to the Arabs for nationalism, then we destroy as many French units in our territory as possible, and draft a few units where possible as well, to try and fill in some defensive gaps. I also wanted to mobilise to help build up units to finish off the French, but then I learn that option is unavailable in GOTMs!

This first French war is a matter of holding our own for awhile, and getting our second leader in 600BC. I hadn't built an army in PTW for a long time, but this guy becomes a cavalry army. In 720AD, having gained only three French cities, it is time to trade again. We brought electricity off Perisa for 440gpt, and used it to pick up medicine, industrialisation, espionage and some of our gpt back, giving peace to France in the process.

This enables us to pursue Scientific Method and start on a pre-build for ToE. Meanwhile, now at peace with the world, we invest in a huge infrastructure push, building libraries, unis, markets and banks in our twin cores. The Germans still beat us to Scientific Method, but it is only by two turns so we finish it ourselves. Then in 890AD, the Germans send a large SOD toward the choke city. Fearing another sneak attack we MPP with the Persians and the Romans, so when the Germans do attack, that war starts up again. In 900AD, the Germans bring in the Arabs against us, so we align with France. In 930AD we complete ToE going the atomic theory and electronics route. Unfortunately, due to the wars we are limited on trading partners, so we can only trade France atomic theory for replaceable parts and communism.

The Arabs have replaceable parts as well, so I start a holding action while I start building up a decent supply of artillery. Up until now there was no need for it, but the only way forward against infantry defenders pre tanks is with an artillery barrage. We soon have another leader who rushes Hoover. The Hoover build becomes the Intelligence Agency.

It takes a while to build up enough artillery to start making forward progress against the Arabs, since I am still building infrastructure as well. So it is fully 1200AD before we wipe them out. In the process we generated two more leaders and built two more cavalry armies. Techwise we learnt the Corporation in eight turns, traded atomic theory, peace and gold for Steel off Germany, then learnt refining in 7 and mass production in 6. Tanks were due in 5.

In 1210AD, we immediately turned around and attacked France. I wanted to finish off this side so that our major war against Germany could start before they got Panzers! In 1255AD, we gave France peace, because they had taken the island city, so we took this in the peace agreement and rushed an infantry there. Then we redeclared and wiped out the French in 1265AD.
1265AD:

In 1275AD, we were finally able to start on the eastern side of the choke, declaring on Germany. Fortunately, the bulk of Germany's forces were tied up fighting Persia to a standstill on the Persian front. With five or six new tanks coming off the production line every turn, our only problem with Germany was large cultural borders, and a lack of good rail infrastructure.

To help get over this, towards the very end, I aggressively settled two cities just inside German territory. This brought remaining cities within a single move of attack by tanks, and had the advantage of allowing tanks to heal and to utilise the next turns poduction, rather than make a slow adavance through German territory with existing troops. This may have saved a turn or two.

The Romans were down to only one city at this time. We declared on them in 1325AD, and destroyed them same turn. The Germans were eliminated in 1330AD.

Finally it was the Persians turn. We attempted to plant a spy, but failed and triggered war with them. In 1340AD, they were gone! Conquest in 1345AD for Jason 8720.


Flips
Just a quick word on flips. I had a few in this game. I expected that would be the case, and so started with a raze and replace policy. I still had flips, so then I added rush culture in the new cities. At least one of these cities flipped anyway, so finally I took notice of the required number of units calculation in Dianthus' tool. When this number dropped sufficiently (say 15) I poured in enough units to completely stop the flipping. This worked a dream.

In the German war all the high risk cities were simply razed, hence the barren map!
 
Don't have time to write out a full recall(or the memory) but a few key points:

-I got into war with France early in the MA. Carthage was currently trouncing India, who had the GL. We exchanged alliances, and soon I captured the GL.
My tech tree prior to this had all First Tier of the MA, plus Theology. Afterwards, I had every MA tech except Free Artistry, Gravity, and that other one at the end of the MA.

-The abovementioned war ended up turning into a global alliance of Me + Carthage vs. Rest of World. Germany had been destroyed early; India and Arabs were almost gone already. France didn't bite the dust until early IA, with Carthage getting most of the cities, but I slipped in about twenty settlers into former French, Arab, and Indian lands. Flips hopefully will come soon; Carthage barely has any culture, France was the global leader BY FAR(significant 100k threat, had 3x as much as anyone else).

-Speaking of flips, Rome seems to have a problem with cities named Hispalis. I flipped it during the AA. During the first war(early/late MA) Rome stomped on it(it only had the flip-provided regular spearman in it) and burned it to the ground, then rebuilt it one tile away from the original site. During the period between the two Roman Wars(so far), I flipped THAT city over, and they went and DESTROYED IT AGAIN during the second war. Now only if they would build it again....

Update, 11/30/04: Rome built again, on the site of the second version. Later on, in a Greece-Rome war, Greece took it over, and then I promptly flipped it. I'd be dollars to donuts that Rome declares war again just to destroy it.
 
Ancient Times

Iroquis-French war
I declared war upon French in 550BC. My force was composed mainly of MWs, 11 of which I lost (+ 2 more units), killing 35 French units, mainly Horsemen and Spearmen. This period I used zero research. In 290 I concluded peace for 3 basic Middle Ages techs and traded Engineering for Republic with India. During this time I have also finished building FP in Niagara Falls.


Germany-Iroquis war
In 250 BC Germans unloaded a couple of units into my territory. I suspected they have a sneak attack in mind, so I traded my Silks, Iron and 500 GP for Invention and Theology with them. However their plans were already set and they attacked my city, of course unsuccesfully. Then I waited until they were ready to make peace, which happened in 70 BC. I got 50 GP and their WM.

Iroquis - Carthage war
As the German war did not provide enough distraction for me, I DoWed Carthage in 210 BC to acquire some room. I allied with India against them for Theology. Since Carthage had Numidian Spearmen defending cities and the war was relatively closely to home, I used Catapults, Maces, and Pikemen in addition to my MWs. The war was quite a success as I captured 5 cities and generated 2 GLs, one of which was used to create army and second rushed JSBach in Niagara Falls later on. Research was still zero, Germans sold me Education, Gunpowder for Iron, Horses, and 130 GP. In 150 AD, peace was concluded with Carthage, getting Chemistry and Music Theory. Those was traded for Banking and Astronomy.



During 210 - 280 AD a small war occurred to destroy French

2nd Iroquis - Carthage war
In 310 AD, Metallurgy was bought from Indians for 1250 GP (still Monarchy, zero research). In 390 AD war was declared and I captured Oea, Leptis Magna and Carthage by 450 AD, using mainly Mace/Musket/Cannon combo and keeping MWs for future upgrade.
I bought Mil. Tradition in 410 AD for 1200 GP from Indians and traded it later for Physics and Chivalry
In 430 AD Persia attacked us and I bribed Germans into alliance against them.
I started upgrades MW to Cavalry and captured the latest Carthaginian major town. Then I made peace with them for outlying city, redeclared war the turn after and finally destroyed them in 490 AD.

World in War
The political situation in 500 AD was quite complicated. I held the landbridge fortified and impassable, so there were virtuallly two continents. In the 'Old World I was friendly with Indians who were slowly absorbed by Arabs and also by Persia. In the 'New world' Germans reduced Romans to one city and were allied with me against Persia. Persia was quite a Juggernaut, having clear tech lead. I was probably bigger, but no enough to compensate for AI bonuses. The plan was to unite the world against them, while staying in Monarchy to manage them to switch govt and slow down their research.

This was however a bit complicated when Arabs declared war upon me in 500 AD. I managed to capture some formerly Indian cities from Arabs as well as Persian Karachi. In 550 AD I concluded peace with Arabs (got TOG, given 850 GP), traded TOG with India for magnetism and entered Industrial Age.




In the 600 AD I revolted again, formin Republic the turn later and finally starting my own research. I also made MPP with Arabs, so that the diplomatic goal was acomplished



660 AD Researched Printing Press
770 AD Researched Electricity
870 AD Researched Replaceable Parts
980 AD Researched Industrialization

In 980 AD I hurried Universal suffrage and managed to generate another GL.

In 1040 I made peace with Persia, which was still in several wars and I was quickly catching up in tech.

1050 AD War with India
1100 AD Researched Scientific Methods
IBT Switched Palace prebuild in Niagara to TOE
Researched Atomic Theory, Electronics by TOE
Hurried Hoover Dam in Niagara by Leader
Generated Leader
Indians destroyed
Sold Medicine to Germans, Arabs
Arabs: Traded Scientific Methods, 600 GP for Corporation
1110 AD Built Hoover Dam in Niagara
1140 AD Researched Sanitation
1220 AD Researched Refining
1260 AD Researched Steel
1305 AD Researched Combustion
1340 AD Researched Mass Production
Traded Steel for Espionage
1370 AD Researched Motorized Transportation
1390 AD MPP Arabs, Germany
Plant Spy in Persia - they declared War



Game status: Domination Victory for Iroquois
Game date: 1460 AD
Firaxis score: 7680
Jason score: 8471
Time played: 43:03:49



And the graph of my military thru the timeline



Final remark

The score is not much, but it was my firs Deity ever. The thing that I have definitely learn is, that on Deity own expansion is not the only key to success. Had I not the Germans available to throw on Persia I could well lose the game.
 
@horragoth: How did you make this military graph?
 
@dmanakho: I extracted data using Dianthus CRP Stats, copied to Excel and polished in Adobe Illustrator. 5 min of work total including sorting the unit types in a 'logical way'.
 
Ancient Age recap: no war, mostly expansion, things going pretty well. Switch to Monarchy and stay there for the rest of the game. CivAssist tells me that this is the best choice. I stop doing any research at all.

BC 570 - leptis magna (size 8) location 5 SW of capitol, finally flips to our side. Carthage still has almost no culture.

French War.

I have about 25 catapults and 15 Mounted Warriors. I just got Feudalism so now I will be able to protect my catapults with a couple pikemen. France has no Iron and so only has spearmen, horsemen, and longbows. It's important to kill them before they start making their musketeers.

I notice Catapults are awefully sucky. There's no Trebuchets in PTW and it seems like there's only a 1/3rd chance to target the defending units. 25 catapults is barely enough to wound 3 spearmen once each in a city.

190 - captured 3 nearby french cities. Worried about cultural flips because France has twice the culture I do. Only one town flips during the French campaign.

AD

AD 30 - capture final french city on continent. They have two tiny island cities left. One near Persia and one on the tiny island in the ocean. Have obtained Oracle and Lighthouse from French cities. Considering I'd built some temples for culture, the Oracle is sort of nice now.

Decide Carthage is next target with pyramids, Leonardo's, and Sistine Chappel to the west, and control of the land bridge to the east. I get Chivalry from France in exchange for Peace and I start upgrading to Knights. Can do about 1 upgrade per turn. My Iron to Carthage deal expires in 15 or so turns. I should have enough knights by then to take on their Numidians.

Carthaginian War.

They've got Cavalry! This sucks. Cavalry can fairly easily kill any one of my defenders, anywhere. I can't see their saltpeter, so I send one column of catapults, knights, and pikemen to the city with their horses, just NW of my territory (capturing a smaller town or two on the way) and the other column heads west through the larger part of their territority. I probably see less than 10 cavalry total during the war. India is on my side and they seem to have many more cavalry than Carthage.

AD 430 - conquor carthaginian capitol. They have no cities west of me any more. I now control Pyramids and Sistine Chappel, but India got Leonardo's. That's too bad, i still have many mounted warriors to upgrade. I Start sending troops east to the land bridge. Carthage has one town there that for some reason hasn't flipped to me, even though it's innundated with my culture. That land bridge is the gateway to further conquests, Persia, the Great Library, and the fate of the Game.

After taking the land bridge I move workers and settlers in to make roads through the jungle. By this time Rome has been eliminated, so Carthage and Persia share old roman territory. I think about moving north from the land bridge and clearing out Carthage, and securing Spices. But my alliances against them are almost up, so I'll be able to make peace and extort a Tech, and I don't want to face riflemen while making my way through Persia to the Great Library, so speed is probably critical here.

Persian War.

The first city I take has only two musketmen and one pikeman. Persia has several cavalry. They usually kill my knights on their turn, but then leave themselves exposed to counterattack on my turn. I kill a few cav with fortified musketmen, but this is rare. I'm losing 3 or 4 knights per turn just to their cavalry attacks. I start making it a priority to use my catapults to bomb nearby roads, and this seems to slow down the cavalry problem. I even resort to bringing a group of workers with my catapult stack to build fortifications next to enemy cities, to try and help my defenses against the cavalry while I spend three turns laying siege. Also it looks like Germany has taken a Persian city to the NE, so perhaps their attention is appropriately diverted.

The second city I take has a couple riflemen. My 40 catapults are almost useless against this. I eventually bomb the city down to below 6 population and decide I should attack. I lose several knights and even try throwing some mounted warriors at it, and it falls! But knights vs. riflemen is rediculous. I trade for Military Tradition start making Cavalry. Some of my new cannons are arriving at the front, but I dont have them in large enough numbers to make much of an impact.

Fortunately bringing Cavalry to the front helps a lot. With some cannons and some cavalry, I can take out the two or three rifleman defending the Persian Core cities.

AD 780 - conquor Persian Capitol, control the Great Library. Get first Great Leader in the Process.

AD 790 - Library slingshot gives me all MA techs except Music Theory, then also Nationalism, Steam Power, Industrialization, and Medecine. This is the first time I've used this trick to such an extent. Not sure whether to stop producing military units to build banks and factories or continue pumping out cavalry. The next closest Persian city has Smith's Trading Company, so I can't make peace until I capture that :)

AD 800 - The Great Library has served its usefulness. I abandon Persepolis and rebuild with a settler. Culture flips are bad!

AD 960 - Having several fronts with persia is difficult. Cavalry attack me in many places. The last city in the southern persian subcontinent has fallen and I prepare to go up the east cost of that subcontinent. A second front with Persia opened up just east of the landbridge has finally taken a city, after at least 10 rounds of bombardment. I have obtained my second great leader. Can't decide if I should jump palace to somewhere farther from my FP, or save him to build ToE or Hoover.

Persia falls in another five or six turns. I take one city in the jungle, and two on the eastern coast of the southern Persian subcontinent, and Germany takes 2 near the gems and maybe 3 south of the gems. I notice Germany is sporting a nice Cavalry Army. I had wanted the gems so I send some settlers to squeeze inbetween german towns. German culture is high, but these towns aren't producing any, I figure I can rush a temple and maybe cathedral and be ok.

I start buying techs again. Buy communism from Germany and trade it to Arabia for Scientific Method. Sell this to Germany for Sanitation and most of my money back. Rush the ToE somewhere. Next round I get Atomic Theory and Electronics, start building Hoover even though I'm not sure I'll need it. I trade Atomic Theory to India for Replaceable Parts and The Corporation. Sell AT to Arabia for Espionage and Right Of Passage agreement. Sell AT to Germany for more Cash. My debt to Arabia is about 155 gpt and will go down by only 40 in 17 turns. Arabia also has Sun Tzu's and JS Bach's. They don't yet know replaceable parts, and India certainly does; this makes Arabia an easy choice for next target. I start upgrading to some infantry and artillery and prepare to sneak attack Arabia.

AD 1060 - I've got several stacks of 2-3 cavalry with one infantry positioned on top of Arabian resources and next to Arabian Cavalry. I declare war and pilliage resources and destroy all their undefended Cavalry. I feel confident this maneouver will limit the ugly cavalry counterattacks I suffered in previous wars.

AD 1090 - Trade Electronics to India for 300 gold + 250 gpt. My income is about 650 gpt. I'm upgrading lots of cannons to artillery, but it isn't enough. I realize I'll need more than 40 artillery to get anything done, particularly if I have to face India's infantry. I also notice that Arabia is producing Guerrillas, but not yet infantry. There are precious few Arabian mounted units coming across the boarder, mostly a hodgepodge of older units. I think my First-Strike strategy was successful.

AD 1110 - New Great Leader hurries Hoover Dam. Old Hoover build switched to CIA. Both complete next round.

AD 1160 - Nother Great Leader. Nothing to hurry, so I build an Army. Fill it with Cavalry. Have captured 4 Arabian cities so far, rebuilt 3 of them, settler moving into position for the fourth.

AD 1230 - Finish off Arabia. Figure I need to capture all German territory for domination win. Our railroads make this easy.

AD 1240 - Take 5 small german towns. Artillery is useful here. Having 30 or so artillery bombard cities drops them below size 6 and gives the cavalry a chance to defeat the fortified infantry. Still lose a large number of cavalry on offense, but German counter attacks are non-existant, due to having one source of horses near the border which I quickly disconnect.

AD 1290 - Realize I'm over the territory domination limit, but haven't won yet. Notice India's population is too high. I decide I must be close and join existing workers wherever they can. I should win next round, but haven't had time to make sure it works out :) Not sure of my score, but it's my first attempt at Diety in PTW, so I feel good about it. Also this was tons of fun!
 
grahamiam:
can i survive an old fashioned diety immortal rush ?

and did you??
 
Predator

The early MAs were quiet
1050BC Oka built
1025BC Trade Carthage Furs, 127 gold for dyes
1000BC Chondote founded
975BC Germany build the Great Library (as Berlin is about as far from us as possible it?s unlikely we?ll ever get it before it?s useless to us)
975BC Persia builds the Great Lighthouse
975 BC Arabs build the Hanging Gardens and the Great Wall
950BC We gift currency and construction to Germany (for future goodwill; they?d get it at the end of the turn from the Great Library in any case)
800BC Buy Monotheism from Germany for 10 gpt, 826 gold; trade Carthage Monotheism, 36 gold for engineering

730BC Persia sneaks attacks razing Chondote (which I believe is the first war anywhere in this world); this is a surprise as we are still paying them 40gpt for construction; as Persia is rather large and culturally much stronger we decide to wage a defensive war
710BC We discover Republic and have revolution; we start research on Theology (at minimum ? which consist of one isolated scientist)
710BC we start building embassies and alliances against Persia; Arabs join alliance for Republic; Rome join for Republic (we get 30 gold); France joins for Republic (we get silks, 4 gpt, 5 gold); Germany joins for 39gpt (we get 182 gold back); Carthage joins for 29gpt; we don?t ally India as we hope they will ally with Persia (we plan to take them out first, before their Golden Age starts; we have nothing to trade them other than gold for any alliance, and they are also culturally weak compared to us so no need to worry about culture flips)
690BC Golden Age starts as a MW kills a Persian warrior; we don?t see another Persian unit near one of our cities until the war is almost over as Persia is too busy fighting everyone else

The Indian War(650BC-390BC)
650BC We declare war on India and take our first city (Kolhapur)
630BC trade Arabia Monotheism, engineering, 78 gold for Feudalism, Monarchy
610BC first MGL spawned as we take Madras; he is used to rush Sun Tzu?s War Academy in Salamanca (completed in 570BC)
590BC Trade Carthage wines, 31 gpt, 237 gold for Theology; start research on Printing Press; get ROP with Carthage
590BC India declares war on Carthage
570BC we capture Lahore
570BC Trade Carthage fur, 9gpt, 6 gold for dyes
570BC Arabia signs MA with Carthage against India
530BC we take Calcutta
510BC we found Gandasetaigon on land bridge to replace Chondote
490BC Karachi captured
450BC Delhi captured
450BC Carthage completes Leonardo?s workshop
430BC Bangalore captured
410BC Last remaining pikeman in Bombay holds off 4 MW
410BC Germany and Persia sign peace treaty
410BC Calcutta deposes our governor and joins Carthage
390BC Bombay captured; India ceases to exist
390BC Trade Germany 43gpt for Chivalry
390BC Trade Arabia Chivalry, 14gpt for Invention
390BC start repositioning MW for next war against France (they are the next target as they have no horses or iron and have about the same amount of culture as we do)

310BC alliances against Persia expire; peace with Persia in exchange for 4gpt, 16 gold, world map

The French War (310BC-170BC)
310BC We declare war on France; take Marseilles; spawn second MGL
310BC we ally Carthage (for 25gpt), Arabia (for 21gpt), Persia (for 10gpt as they are still at war), Rome (for horses, 10gpt)
310BC trade Rome Monotheism for Gems, 1gpt
290BC we take Lyons
290BC Golden Age ends
270BC Build new city (the Forbidden Palace) in old Indian heartland and rush FB there (in 250BC) to make 5 cities (including the new one) corruption free
270BC Persia captures Neapolis; our higher culture in that area allows us to control spices
250BC Tours, Orleans captured
250BC Trade Germany 35gpt for Printing Press; trade Arabia printing press, 24gpt for Gunpowder; trade Persia printing press for 19gpt, 12 gold; start research on Chemistry (at minimum)
230BC Paris captured; Neapolis, recently captured by the Persian decides to join our civ (Rome is in awe of our culture)
210BC Chartres captured; local iron pillaged to allow us to continue to produce MW as we are below the support limit for our army, MW are much cheaper to produce than knights, and have similar attack strength (I don?t plan on having any defensive encounters)
210BC start trading gpt for gold (ie. trade Arabia 11gpt for 166 gold); use this gold to upgrade MW to knights (before iron pillaged); will continue this for rest of game (ie. build MW, upgrade to Knights when iron available; this became particularly effective once Leonardo?s Workshop was captured); it got to the point where I had 13 slave workers sitting on an iron hill along with a MW; at the beginning of every turn I would connect the iron and upgrade any MW that were available; at the end of the turn I would use to MW to pillage the road on the hill and make sure all my cities were producing MW
210BC Orleans rebels and rejoins French
190BC We recapture Orleans
190BC ROP with Carthage expires
170BC Rheims taken; French destroyed

150BC Trade Carthage world map, 49gpt for education, 56 gold
130BC Trade Germany Spices for 8gpt, 23 gold
90BC Investigate Hippo ? find 8 musketmen and 1 medieval infantry
90BC Investigate Utica ? find 2 catapults, 4 musketmen
90BC decide to concentrate on main Carthagian cities and leave Hippo for now (will raze their resources and attack anything that leaves the city)
70BC trade Carthage 85gpt for banking, 198 gold

The Carthagian War (70BC-150AD)
70BC incite Carthage to declare war on us (lots of their troops are still stuck inside our border from the French war; meanwhile lots of Arabic troops are still inside Carthage from the French war)
70BC ally Arabia (for 20gpt), Persia (for 17gpt), Rome (for Chivalry and Theology), and Germany (for 35 gpt) against Carthage
70BC pillage horses, saltpeter in Hippo?s borders
70BC Raze border cities of Utica and Sabrathe gaining control of dyes and horses (Carthage now no longer has either)
70BC gain MGL; used to form army of MW
50BC another MGL formed; second MW army created as many Carthagian units in our territory slaughtered
50BC trade Germany banking, 16gpt for Chemstry; start research on Metallurgy
50BC Kill stray Carthagian Musketman near Hippo
10BC Raze Hippo; another MGL formed (third MW army created)
10BC Trade Persia 42gpt for gems
10BC Persia makes peace with Carthage
10AD Arabia pillage Carthage?s only remaining saltpeter source
30AD we capture Leptis Minor
90AD we capture Leptis Magna (site of the Sistine Chapel)
90AD trade Persia 39gpt for Music Theory
90AD trade Germany 42gpt, music theory for astronomy
110AD we capture Calcutta; MGL formed (used to rush J.S. Bach?s Cathedral in Salamanca in 150AD)
110AD Persians destroy the Romans
130AD we capture Carthage, which contain the Pyramids and Leonardo?s Workshop
150AD we capture Rusicade
150AD Arabs capture Theveste destroying the Carthagians

170AD trade the Arabs 240gpt for Physics, Democracy and 562 gold

The Arabian War (170AD-340AD)
170AD Goad Arabs into declaring war
170AD ally Germany (for incense, 5gpt) and Persia (for incense) against Arabia
170AD Capture Theveste (no need to raze any Arabian town as we are disdainful of the culture)
170AD capture Kufah (their only source of saltpeter); Arabs recapture Kufah on their turn
190AD recapture Kufah for good
210AD pillage only source of horses for Arabia
260AD capture Khursan and Damascus
270AD capture Fustat
280AD capture Mecca, which is site of Hanging Gardens and Copernicus? Observatory
290AD trade Germany spices for 10gpt, 21 gold
300AD capture Najran
300AD Germany breaks our alliance against Arabia
310AD re-ally Germany for incense, 7gpt
310AD capture Medina; assault on Baghdad (location of the Great Wall) fails
320AD we take Baghdad
330AD Anjar taken; we now have a source of Ivory
340AD Basra captured; Arabs destroyed; currently control 50% of world?s area, 58% of world population; start transferring knights to Persian border

350AD trade Persia Magnetism, Navigation, and Economics from Persia for incense, 258 gpt (as Persia is our next target); attempt to goad Persia into declaring war, but despite many, many insults they refuse to declare war

The Persian War (380AD-end of game)
380AD we declare war on Persia at great cost to our reputation, but we suddenly have huge surplus of gpt; ally Germany against for incense
380AD we capture Antium, Ravenna
380AD Ravenna recaptured by Persia
390AD Veii captured
400AD Ravenna recaptured
410AD sign ROP with Germany
420AD we capture Pompei
430AD we capture Pisae, Viroconium
440AD we build Smith?s Trading Company (rushed with MGL)
440AD we capture Rome
450AD we capture Tyre, Sardis
450AD trade Germany saltpeter,gems, 5gpt for Theory of Gravity
460AD we capture Gordium, Antioch
470AD Newton?s University built (rushed with MGL)
470AD make peace with Persia in exchange for city of Dariush Kabir (city built on island in middle of ocean), 45 gold
470AD we re-declare war on Persia when they insist we leave their territory
480AD we capture Sidon, Pasargadae giving us about 66% of the world?s area (and 76% of world population)
500AD Domination Victory through cultural border expansion
 
Redbad said:
grahamiam:
can i survive an old fashioned diety immortal rush ?

and did you??
yep, thou that plucky spear could only hold out for so long :lol: i ended up losing oil springs for a little while but got it back, eventually signing peace with persia (never captured another Persian holding). from then on, i used persia as the anvil to hammer all other civ's with :D , though my win was not nearly as speedy as florian k's. his was very impressive as it does not appear that he used any RoP rapes the whole game :thumbsup: unfortunately, i succumbed to the temptation of doing so but only on the last foe, Rome, so that i would not have to face rifles. it's been a long time since i did that and i feel a little dirty, kind of like playing chess but setting up two rooks and the queen next to the king while the opponent moves pawns around, oblivious to what my moves imply. not very fulfilling.

gotm staff email said:
Game: GOTM 37
Date submitted: 2004-11-30
Reference number: 5611
Your name: grahamiam
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: open
Game status: Domination Victory for Iroquois
Game date: 710 AD
 
I lost. :( The worst part is that I cannot submit my game.
I had 65.3% of territory and everything was suggesting that I will hit a domination next turn unless…
This “unless” did not come as a surprise, I was expecting that. Persia declared a war and in one turn my land shrink to about 45%. Also I left with 12 cavalry and I saw at least two Pesrian armies and about 20 cavalry at the same spot.
I thought that if I will try to play it further it will take forever, no matter if I loose or win. So I decided to abandon all my cities (and I had considered such a situation even before I started to play this game, I mentioned it in my QSC timeline). I learned the following: You cannot abandon the last city unless you have a settler. If you have a settler you can abandon all cities and then you can disband the settler. So it took me two turns to eliminate myself from the map.
Now the problem is that when I am trying to submit my game I am getting the following message:
“Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 60 seconds exceeded in /home/virtual/site7/fst/var/www/html/BabyBeast/Expander.php on line 415”

I gues it is something to do with BabyBeast :crazyeye:
 
I tried to submit it next day in the morning. Exactly the same thing. I did not know what cause this error, a server problem or my game.
So I tried to submit not the latest autosave, but one before. It gave a different type of problem, so I guess server is OK, but my save is not.
I am going to PM one of 2As and we will see.
 
AlanH helped me with a save. I had to make a save manually instead of autosave.

I was somewhat surprised that my scores were higher than what I had in my first GOTM (COTM2) where I won.
Maybe I have a chance to compete for green ambulance?
 
Eh, hello grahamiam!

Your name: Megalou
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: predator
Game status: Domination Victory for Iroquois
Game date: 710 AD

Bad thing about this game
"Engineering 40 turns." I think that sums it up. I should have had a few libraries by this time, or a better trading strategy. It did leave me with some spare cash to attack India earlier, however.


Good things about this game
If you read my first spoiler you may remember that I got a town from a hut around the flood plains south of Arabia. This town was pretty useful after all. The town prevented Arabia from building anything southeast of Mecca, and it produced a settler who “stole” the horses straight to the south of Mecca. Overall, a key to success in this game was the lack of resources for the AI. Here is a list of the AI:s problems in the order I attacked them:

France :sad: : iron...............attacked in 775 BC, swordsmen, later mounted warriors
India :undecide: : N/A..................attacked in 10 AD, monted warriors and knights
Carthage :sad: : horses.........attacked in 470 AD, cavalries
Arabia :sad: : horses (periodically, but they sometimes bought from Persia), saltpeter.....attacked in 580 AD, cavalries
Rome :sad: : horses (often)...attacked in 540 AD, cavalries
Germany :sad: : horses.........attacked BY in 300 AD, attacked in 560 AD, cavalries
Persia :satan: : None. And I didn’t touch them!



Niagara Falls 1425 BC

Another good thing was that I was never at war with Persia. They were the supreme tech leaders. The AI were agressive, but mostly fought each other.

I also had a proper amount of cavalries, 42 after all upgrades. Of course I didn't make as good use of knights as Florian K did.

Research stopped after Military Tradition and before Physics.

Most exciting
This stuff as usual when expansionist:



Legolas II flees

Very exciting were also the couple of turns at the end when I left myself open for the Persians. They eliminated Rome 3 turns before the end, so for two turns they had no enemy to divert their attention. The last turn, seeing I was well over the limit, I retreated from Germany and so my towns were well garrisoned then.



grahamiam, did you, er, do any milking?
 
So one could say that you don't have time to hurry.

Hurry marketplaces that is.
 
GOTM37 Open

I just finished it about as hour ago.

This was my best game to date.


Firaxis score: 10985
Jason score: 11130

I will do a better post in a day or two. I have to write it and I've all ready blew this whole week end.

This was the first game I did not use the govener at all so it took 108+ hours instead of 30+ hours. But I did a lot better then normal.
 
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