Romeo3 Welcome to Rapid City (RaR OCC)

romeothemonk

romeothemonk

Order of the Engineer
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Messages
2,253
Location
Rapid City, South Dakota
After playing a rise and rule OCC on emporer and finding it Viable (I had a tech lead the entire game ;) on a huge map), I have an idea for a new laid back SG.
My thoughts:
Strict OCC, we can never for one instant have more than one city. (You can still get armies from the Military academy).
Emporer Level
Standard Pangea
Random opponents except for America.
We are the Sioux.
Our economy is tourism based, and thus we can only build GW that have tourism possibilites, and SW that give tourism are preferred. (Rapid City in a nutshell) (I will not put any restrictions on industry that seem to be in effect in RC).
We are defiant to all Meso and Native American civs (excluding America).
When we get our UU or enter the middle ages, we must declare war on America and stay at war until a GL emerges to make peace.
We must build the SW that displays as Mt. Rushmore. (War Memorial?)
One screen shot of something is required per turn set.
20 turns for peacetime, 10 turns for war.
If people are interested I will generate some starts and we can go from there.
Roster:
Microbe
Blank
Romeothemonk
Blank
Bed_Head7
 
Here are some starts.
I am split between all of them.
Weigh in with your opinions please.
Start 1
start1.jpg


Start 2
start2.jpg


Start 3
start3.jpg
 
Starts are posted. Please cast your vote. I moved a little on start 1 just to see if it was viable. (I was rolling a lot of marsh etc. and wanted to see if what that fruit was.)
 
I greatly dislike having coastal cities in OCC. With the International port, in RaR they may not be so bad. In my previous OCC game, I had to wait until Electricity to talk to more than 4 of my opponenets.
 
romeothemonk said:
I greatly dislike having coastal cities in OCC. With the International port, in RaR they may not be so bad. In my previous OCC game, I had to wait until Electricity to talk to more than 4 of my opponenets.
Click to expand...

I don't get this.

1. Coastal city makes contacts much easier as you can build curragh and meet everyone by just sailing about the coastline without RoP issues.
2. Another benefit is better commerce (especially Seafaring). Commerce is actually more important in OCC than in normal games.
3. Also, certain wonders are only available to coastal cities.
4. The last, you do not depend on your neighbors for trade routes.

But since this is pangea, we can certainly play for a change, but being coastal is one of the most important thing in my mind for an OCC.
 
You have some extremely valid points Microbe.
But this is a variant OCC, just because I know that the players in the SG forums are up to the task.
We are not seafaring, we are agricultural, hence my preference towards rivers.
Ships other than the Canoe are 2 or 3 optional techs away.
Commerce is king, but production is very handy, thus my preference for a hill or 2 so we can get some 1 turn champs rolling early.
The Trade routes point is extremely valid, but with us being Mil, I see us keeping open some trade routes.
That said, I am leaning towards 2 or 3 now, with 3 executing the move you suggested.
 
IMHO all your starts suck for OCC.
#1 may work, but it ain't coastal.
#2 is a really bad start for RaR.
#3 would be a good start for a regular RaR game, but lacks production for OCC.

IMHO you need:
- A Hill to found opon.
- Coast
- A early food bonus; Elephants would rock.
- Several Mountains.

Fresh water is not that important; a River is great for the commerce bonus, ok, but a Lake is not that helpful.
 
Hmm, going with Doc's thinking here, I may need to reroll some more. In start three, that apears to be an elephants behind sticking out to the southwest.
I will put this on hold again until I can reroll some more starts then. Sorry.
 
Don't forget a tribe moves *2* ignoring terrain costs. Don't be afraid to wander 4 to 5 turns looking for something better.
 
I'd say #3 looks pretty good, especially if you move the tribe 1 S to begin with. Appears you would have river commerce, 5 Hills, 3 food bonuses and a bunch of forests. Unless you're holding out for 4 flood plain oases and 8 Mountains, that sounds pretty good. Pre-irrigation, post-mining you should be able to generate >20 spt before production multipliers.

Or is sugar not a food bonus? The sw blob appears to be Elephants.
 
Food isn't really the problem. Production is. Since you cannot mine Grassland, all you'll get in #3 are like 3 hills, and a few Forrest, plus the Elephants/Sugar (no spt). Make that 20spt without boosters at size 15. And, aside from the Hills, no resources with production bonus will appear.
Some Floodplains and Mountains will be far better.You can get Camels, and even without, 20spt at size 6 are doable.
Mined Hill =4spt.
Mined Mountain =6spt.
 
Uhhhh ... let's assume the tribe moves 1 S, and the fog-gazing is correct and we spy elephants. Pre-irrigation, grassland is neutral for growth, Elephants are +2 food, and Sugar is +1 food. The center tile for an Ag civ generates 4 fpt, so by working the 3 food boni the city is at +8 fpt (post-Despot, pre-irrigation). That amount of food allows the working of 4 (of the 5) Hills, for 18-19 spt at size 7.

At size 13, with irrigation and 2 BGs ... I see a max of 31 pre-multiplied shields assuming 2 forests are available.

But Doc's right, for an OCC it is probably wise to do a lot of forum-shopping and look for Flood Plains (w/food bonuses) + Mountains. His example is a little disengenuous, as I think to work 4 Mountains at size 6 would require 2 FP-Oases (+4 fpt each, pre-irrigation). A mixture of regular Flood Plains and Mountains would not be nearly so appealing.
 
Pre-irrigation, grassland is neutral for growth,
Click to expand...
While in chiefdom grassland is NEGATIVE growth. You need 3 food per person in RaR. Grassland is 3 food, and takes a negative 1 for the chiefdom penalty down to 2 food. Grassland just plain sucks until a better government.


As for good tiles getting a camel on floodplains is extra food and growth. A couple of cereals squares and look out.

One thing I am starting to learn about RaR is that you can support mountains and hills easier then in regular C3C.

Don't forget that flood plains can be MINED if you are to heavy with flood plains.
 
Well ... in Despotism the center tile would still be 4 fpt, the Sugars 3 fpt, and the Elephant 4 fpt. At size 3 a city would be +5 food and could grow to size 6, still working 2 Hills and a BG in addition. Low shield/high commerce start, but one could toggle around on the various tiles as comprimises between food and shields in the early turns. (If the clan goes south, the food bonuses have to wait for the Palace-induced border expansion. Conveniently timed with growth to size 2.)
 
Is that a sign-up T-McC? If it is, I am really tempted to try #3. In my previous OCC game I only had 28 pre-multiplier shields. I had no problem snagging 22 GW's and ~10 SW. I like the river, sugar and elephants more and more as I think on it and people comment.
One of the goals of this game is to be a challenge. Also the river models Rapid Creek. :)
The more I hear, I think I want to try #3, as Microbe has expressed an interest in trying. If T-McC plays, I have no problems trying #3.
 
Here is the Save.
This is to be a fun and relaxed game.
Roster is as follows:
Microbe
T-McC
Romeothemonk
Bed_Head7
Lurker: (Any lurker can claim got it in 24 hrs after Bed_Head7 Posts the save.) This kind of makes it semi-open.

The start
I hope this is fun for you all, I have been thinking about a fun picture laden semi-descriptive thematic game.
 
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