Now THIS is a bad start!

[tR1cKy]

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INTRO - For 1st time readers
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This thread was, at first, nothing more than a showoff of a really UGLY start position i had while making test-starts for my (still unfinished) mod. At first, i played the first turns without even having in mind to continue the game. Then i said to myself: why not? And so everything begun...

Why i'm saying so? Well, i find necessary to point out that, at the beginning, this thread wasn't intended to be something to put into the "Stories and Tales" section (it was moved only after the game ended). That's why, in the first pages, you'll find in it some discussion about bad starts, some casual chat and some spam. After the thread turned into the log of an epic game, the "extra" elements were almost disappeared.

Now let's go back to the story... where the original thread starts.

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END INTRO
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Title: Now THIS is a bad start!

... or it isn't?!?
My initial impulse was to reload, then i said to myself: why not give it a try?
I'm building military like crazy - an attack on Thebes and Memphis doesn't seem impossible.
Vanilla 1.29f, deity - bets are open.

[Tomoyo]

What have you got there in Egitto Merda?

[BasketCase]

That's a good start. Certainly worth playing.

Granted that my first instinct was to simply add Thebes and Memphis to your start, but seeing as how they're guarded by Hoplites, that's not gonna be so easy.....

[Total War]

I've had worse...believe me.
This is actually not as bad as it looks. You will get a lot of production from these cities later on in the game, and you still have the furs!

[tR1cKy]

Originally Posted by Tomoyo

What have you got there in Egitto Merda?

My one and only survival team... 6 archers, 1 spear, 2 warriors
Mission:

@BasketCase: spears. only greeks have hoplites .Lucky me! - with the greeks my chances would be much lower.

Amazingly, these are the only 2 cities built by egyptians - and it's 1425bc! No odd rules: standard map, 8 civs, continents, 70% water, temperate, normal, 4 billions. An extremely crazy distribution of starting points?!?

The only chance is the "cultural assimilation" of Thebes and Memphis. But in this level the extra units at start forbid a very early attack. I'm going to toss everything at Thebes, but not now - it's 4:00 am here and tomorrow (well, today) i'm at work. Ah, the power of Civ Addiction...

[Renata]

How bizarre. You can actually see the Egyptians' far border in your screenshot.

Good luck.

Renata

[Xerol]

Is there any room at all on the other side of egypt?

Do you have a 4000 BC save? Please post it or the earliest one you have.

I'd say get another settler out and place it in that little area that's sticking into egypt between the two cities. You gain a hill and 2 plains but could at least have a hope of keeping up build-wise.

I'd also chop that forest N of your second city; having it stuck at pop 3 isn't very useful, and even if the tile underneath isn't a BG, you get 1 more shield in the long run if you mine another hill.

[Theoden]

I've seen worse starts...

I would try to get an alliance with another civ on the other side of the Egyptians. Then when they are fighting on a different front you are able to strike them from behind and capture one or two cities,

[BasketCase]

Shows how good my history is--Thebes and Memphis sounded like Greek cities.

[Tomoyo]

Thebes is a Greek city...

[oagersnap]

Originally Posted by Tomoyo

Thebes is a Greek city...

No??
__________________
Bush is

[tR1cKy]

Originally Posted by Tomoyo

Thebes is a Greek city...

Well, yes and no... the whole matter is a bit confusing. Actually, there were two Thebes in the ancient history, one being greek and one being egyptian.
The Egyptian Thebes was the capital of Egypt during the middle kingdom. Later, the capital was moved north, but Thebes conserved the role of the main religious center of the nation.
The Greek Thebes was a famous city-state of the ancient Hellenic civilization, probably founded by Phoenicians. In the endless sequel of wars between greek cities, theban soldiers were able to defeat Spartans twice. They and also took an important role in defending Greece from the failed Persian invasion.

Originally Posted by Theoden

I would try to get an alliance with another civ on the other side of the Egyptians. Then when they are fighting on a different front you are able to strike them from behind and capture one or two cities

Useful advice, but i know no one. Dastardly Cleopatra has contact with 2 other civs, but won't sell them to me for a reasonable price. And since i'm going to attack her before it's too late, i cannot accept gpt deals or my rep will be toast. In this fight i'm alone.

Originally Posted by QuertySoft

1) - Is there any room at all on the other side of egypt?

2) - Do you have a 4000 BC save? Please post it or the earliest one you have.

3) - I'd say get another settler out and place it in that little area that's sticking into egypt between the two cities. You gain a hill and 2 plains but could at least have a hope of keeping up build-wise.

1) Dunno
2) I have it, but it's a mod in progress and i'll have to post about 20 megs of files with the save. Alas, this was a test-start, i wasn't supposed to play the game, but the odd start intrigued me so i decided to go on.
3) Good, but slow. I'm going directly with the military option before it's too late to do anything. But i'm going to chop the trees, 10 shields and 1 extra food are worth their weight in gold now.

@Renata: thank you! I need a bit of luck in order to earn anything. If the RNG gods hate me, i'll be dead meat.

Tonight i'm gonna play the game. Yes, it's Valentine's but i have no girlfriend at the moment... anyone interested?
I'll post an update when i have one.

[sealman]

Originally Posted by oagersnap

No??
__________________
Bush is

Thebes is an Egyptian city off the nile. However, the city of Thebes in Greece was once the seat of one of the oldest Greecian city states.

[sennomulo]

Egypt shït?

[tR1cKy]

@sennomulo: yes, exactly sometimes i name forts after my enemies, that way...

I played a few turns yesterday, before falling into the bed.
Captured Thebes! I lost only 1 archer, and a few were damaged but not killed. Strangely, there were only 3 regular spears to defend it. Their counterattack was easy to contain.
Egyptian cities were 3, not 2! There is at least another one sw of Thebes, and a fourth eastward. I saw the settler popping up from thebes the very same turn i attacked it. It went north, then west, then crossed the river and disappeared from my sight.

After a few turn i reinforced and headed for Memphis, which became the new capital. I was lucky to avoid some reinforcement. The stack west is 2 settlers with 3 escorts (damn them! they're spawning like rabbits!). This time, my proud archers suffered heavy casualties - 3 killed and 2 wounded, but Memphis finally fell to the might of the Roman empire.

It's 1100BC and i've never waged war that early. I didn't go into diplomacy yet. I'm gonna contact the Greeks and make peace with Egypt. My army at the moment is not a menace for anyone and i need these 20 turns of peace to strengthen myself and strike again! I should be able to grab some techs and at least a map from Cleo.

This egyptian weakness looks strange. The culprit is probably an early war with Greece. I guess i'll see it from the histograph after the game ends.

Here's a shot (scaled down to not hog up the page) 1152x864 -> 800x600

[Total War]

See, now was it that bad??

I usually play the game out for a good 20 turns before I decide whether or not my starting position is good or not. Even if it is a poor location, I try to get an uperhand with contacts or wars.

Good job! Show those Egyptians what you're made of!

[sennomulo]

And see if you can build a city in that gap before the computer does!

[Rik Meleet]

When you are used to 26x26 tiled Pangarea map with 32 civs (averaging 10 tiles per civ) any start where there are no AI settlers visible feels good.

[Chieftess]

If you want a bad start, find Aeson's elusive Ice-Island Deity start thread! That was his 65k win I think (or was it another one?)

Anyway, I've had a nice start like that on Sid -- with Portugal 10 tiles away. Only had room for 2 cities (on an island).

[Tomoyo]

Originally Posted by oagersnap

No??

I meant Thebes is a Greek city, knowing that Thebes is also an Egyptian city...