Mistfit’s Quick Domination Attempts

[Mistfit]

First Attempts at HoF

Well I’ve decided to make an attempt or two at getting my name amongst the stars of Civ. (Actually just going to try to fill a few open spots)

Thanks to all who chimed in when I asked for suggestions before starting this.

Pre Game thoughts:
C3C v1.22
World Settings:
Difficulty: Chieftan
Size: Small (for practice – I’ll move up as I get better)
Pangea-Minimum land (60%?)
5 Billion Year (less Mountains)
AI Attitude: Nice as possible
Barbs: Goodie Huts only
Opponents: English/Korean/Byzanitine
AI respawn: On (hey ya never know I might get an extra city)
Culturally Linked: On (who knows it might group my opponents together and leave me by myself)
Victory Conditions: All

I am:
Inca: (Expansionist / Agricultural)
Starting Tech: Pottery and Masonry
UU: Chasqui Scout – 20 shield 1/2/2 unit that ignores Mtns.

Advantages:
Can build Pyramids immediately upon SGL
One free scout to pop goodie huts
Can build an early 2 movement unit to pop the rest.
Disadvantages:
Chasqui Scout is kinda expensive and difficult to start a Golden Age unless it is against rWarriors
Pottery is a cheap tech that could be used to pop a SGL

My Opponents:
England – Seafaring and Commercial – Get Alphabet and Pottery. UU = Useless

Korea – Scientific and Commercial – get Alphabet and Bronze Working. UU = Worthless

Byzantia – Sea Faring and Scientific – get Alphabet and Bronze Working. UU = Ineffectual

My idea here was get Civs with no fast units – no scouts –no useful UU’s.

What I would need for a perfect game:
Great start (map finder don’t fail me now)
Pyramids – granary everywhere
Temple of Artimis – Temple for free 21 tile expansion
2 SGL’s (Pyramids & Temple of Artimis)
Free Town/Settler from goodie huts

I really only need the following tech:
Warrior code (self research for SGL)
Ceremonial Burial (self research for SGL)
Mysticism
Polytheism (for ToA)
Alphabet (trade for with AI)
Writing
Codes of Law
Philosophy
Republic (free tech)

All other Techs are Gravy or used to get SGL. If I get the above tech and 2 SGL I will turn off research and just fill in space.

My plan:
is to use normal spacing for the first 5-7 cities and then use OCP to cover as much land as possible with my free temples. The second expansion will take 50 more turns so I can’t count on that.

I also plan to build nothing but scouts (3-5), workers, and settlers… that’s it. No improvements or anything (I can’t think of any that would help) Unless I find that I need to conquer cities than I might have to build a small army and a few Rax. (I hope not)

I think I’m figuring this correctly (check my math)

Small world 80x80 = 6400 tiles
60% land = 6840 tiles
66% of that for domination = 2557.44 tiles
2577.44/21 tiles per city expanded = 121.78 cities
Plus 20% more cities to cover overlap = 146.14 cities to reach domination. That seems high to me but it’s what I’ll shoot for.

Goal:
I don’t know if it is unrealistic but My goal is to get domination before 1000BC. I’ll know more after I play a few games.

Well I’m off to DL Moonsinger’s map finder utility and get it running to find me some starts.

[boogaboo]

Haven't read all.. but..

Warrior code (self research for SGL)
Ceremonial Burial (self research for SGL)

Haow many games do you plan on doing to achieve this??

[Mistfit]

As this is my first attempt I'm sure that my plans will change as I play and see what actually happens in a game. I really have only played C3C in COTM, SGOTM, and SG's. In all of those SGL's are normally turned off so I will have to see what happens.

What's the quote?

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry

Edit: With a bit of thinking I think my plan will be to toss the game if I don't get a SGL on the 1st tech researched. The second SGL can come at anytime within 10 turns of being done so that one may and can wait for ToA.

[Sandman2003]

Originally Posted by boogaboo

Haven't read all.. but..



Haow many games do you plan on doing to achieve this??

As a scientific civ he has got 1/20 on the first and 1/20 on the second, so on average you would expect this to happen every four hundred games or so ...

[Mistfit]

I'm not scientific.

[Sandman2003]

Woops, my bad, well make that 1/33 by 1/33 for one game in 1083 on average for the two in a row SGLs...

[Dianthus]

Originally Posted by Mistfit

What's the quote?

The best laid plains of mice and men often go awry

I suspect you ment "plans", but maybe "plains" is more relevant to Civ .

[LulThyme]

Now if you increase you number of techs you self research, and hope for 2 Sgl among 4 techs you increase you chances a lot... (by a factor of 10 approx..)

[Mistfit]

You, of course, are right. I've edited it for spelling correctness. Civ on the mind I guess.

[Smirk]

Finally found myself a good domination map and game, this is compared to the current (or new leaders in this field) on tiny. Eman got pyramids *really* early, and then a little later the necessity wonder for this type of game, the ToA. Thats two leaders before 1000 BC, very lucky!

I researched 10 AA techs before I finally got a leader, but this didn't hurt me much after not getting one for about 6 techs I went ahead and built a granary. Of course had I not gotten any the game woulda been abandoned, ToA is too important for fast domination. This was on tiny, on small you could *possibly* prebuild for it, if worst comes to worst. But I would think not getting the leader would knock you out of contention. Also, I played the Persians who are scientific.


At any rate, some suggestions: I played against the Mayans, and it was pretty fun (despite their semi-useful jav) I took a city and lost a unit, but got a worker back! Considering this was an upgraded warrior thats not a bad trade.
Also I did some warmongering and they being agr helps since they have citys that aren't autoraze. I played with the iroquois too, also agr, also have a semi dangerous UU. Never let them get any horses though.


The moral of my story, you must get ToA for tiny, small, maybe others to be competative, *but* you only need to have it for 5 turns, so not getting it early is not a big deal.

[Bartleby]

Well call me Mr. Picky but...

Originally Posted by Burns

The best laid schemes o' mice and men gang aft agley

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Mistfit

World Settings:

Pangea-Minimum land (60%?)

Minimum land would be 20%, and 80% water...

[LulThyme]

So smirk did you finish that game?
and if so what was the finale date?

[denyd]

Best of luck on the go

A couple of thoughts. Getting an SGL isn't easy (let alone 2), so if you get one, save him for the ToA and use the 2nd for Pyramids. You really only need 1 or 2 cities pumping out settlers to make the domination limit. At levels below regent, you probably won't even need to go to war to get to the limit.

One more tip, as soon as you get writing, start to research philosophy and go hut hunting for a code of laws hut. If you try to research CoL first you run the risk of getting philosophy from a hut and will end up with CoL as your free tech (learned that one the hard way). In all likelyhood the AI will never get past the second level of techs, so except for SGL's research isn't really an issue in this type game.

[Smirk]

Originally Posted by LulThyme

So smirk did you finish that game?
and if so what was the finale date?

Yep I finished it: 1375 BC. That was my best attempt so far, but now I have a better feel for a good game and will try some more before I bother submitting. For instance this one was overkill, I had like 6 settlers running around and 20-30 workers at the end. I think towards the end I'll start to send the workers back home and speed up some of the earlier (and important) settling. Also I overdeveloped land, all you really need is roads to the outlying cities (ahead of time to speed up the settlers) which will do nothing more than generate 1 gold, or other small things.


Also, I changed government at around 1800 BC (wasted 5 turns with this). Although in the future I will attempt to get it, just not revolt. But it worked well for what my purpose originally was, to trade it and keep the AI from devastating their own cities when I mongered.

[Mistfit]

Well I thought I should play one out to see what I needed practice on and to see what would work and what would not. I think I've learned quite a bit! And I know I need to learn more.

This is From My Pregame thoughts ~
C3C v1.22
World Settings:
Difficulty: Chieftan
Size: Small (for practice – I’ll move up as I get better)
Pangea-Minimum land (60%?) Actually 20% Thanks Darkness (503 dom limit)
5 Billion Year (less Mountains)
I went middle setting on precipitation and climate
AI Attitude: Nice as possible
Barbs: Goodie Huts only (1 settler - 50gold - 7 tech)
Opponents: English/Korean/Byzanitine
AI respawn: On (hey ya never know I might get an extra city)
Culturally Linked: On (who knows it might group my opponents together and leave me by myself)
Victory Conditions: All

I am:
Inca: (Expansionist / Agricultural)
Starting Tech: Pottery and Masonry
UU: Chasqui Scout – 20 shield 1/2/2 unit that ignores Mtns.
This unit is great for early game city and worker stealing!

Advantages:
Can build Pyramids immediately upon SGL (didn't happen)
One free scout to pop goodie huts
Can build an early 2 movement unit to pop the rest.
Disadvantages:
Chasqui Scout is kinda expensive and difficult to start a Golden Age unless it is against rWarriors (Don't attack spears with them )
Pottery is a cheap tech that could be used to pop a SGL

Ok This is a piccie of the start after movement at 4000BC:

Yup that's right:

4 cows
2 Goodie huts

Oh wait it get's better

Add on:
2 FP Wheat
2 River Plains Sugar
Plus a whale and Fish (although they didn't really get used much)

I did fairly well at the begining of the game. I settled fairly tight to make use of all of the food available. I'm not used to having that much food at my disposal.

Part of the problem with this game is I settled anticipating the ToA (with gaps between cities). Had I known I wasn't going to get it I would have settled the land differently.

QSC:



Things I can do better:
I think if I had 3 Chasqui scouts in a stack at the beginning of the game I could take one city from each civ. As long as there is only a rWarrior in garrison this would be pretty easy. Hey 3 free towns is 3 free towns.

I need to start a prebuild immediately for ToA incase it does not get rushed by a leader.

I needed to read the replies to the thread before playing. Had I read DenyD's post I wouldn't have made that exact mistake with popping Philo. I only had 3 turns left on CoL and that ended up being my free tech

550BC ~Domination
F Score ~2812
52 cities
In the end I am a bit disapointed with my first outcome but I have some good plans to work on now.

[boogaboo]

First try at a goal is usually disappointing, but it seems you're catching your own mistakes, so have fun and better luck next time!

[leif erikson]

Nice try Mistfit!! Looking good....

Nice evaluation, you'll be finishing before 1000 BC before you know it.

Good luck on the next one!!

[Ginger_Ale]

Originally Posted by Current HOF #4 for Chieftan Domination

4 Ginger_Ale 2693 510 BC Domination Tiny Maya Start Finish C3C 1.22

I guess I'll have to try again and beat you. Good game, very nice start. Interesting (but then again, not that interesting) that we both had the English chosen as opponents.

[Mistfit]

Quick Update:
I've run MapFinder through about 2000 iterations to find about 25 maps or so. (2 cows at least 1 fresh water and all maps with over 3 cows)

I've played about 4 maps through and have yet to get a single SGL.

I've tried some other things as well and I'd like your opinion on them.

1.) I tried hand building the ToA from scratch in my second city but this takes away from building cities so it seems that I am going backwards.

2.) I've started to build granaries in my 1st couple of cities that have a chop available and I think that this helps.

3.) My new plan is in one of my 1st 4 cities build a Rax and build a small army to chase around the AI capitals as each time I do I get another city. (Question: when you have AI respawn on can you only eliminate them once? Second time they are gone for good?)

4.) Goodie huts: I can really see the use of popping them after I get a settler from them. The only thing I can get is tech. Really I want to have available as many as possible to research to try for a SGL.

5.) Go for CB as it is least expensive then Wheel pretty cheap and it shows horses. Then Buy Alpha from the AI. ? Next go straight for the Republic slingshot. Then Up the ladder for the Tech that give ToA.

This is how I'm playing them now but if you have any suggestions I'd be happy to listen.