The Civs in the next expansion pack

I made a list that would be good if we had a new trait: Seafaring, or you can also call it Explorer (because a lot of maps would be a disadvantage, Oasis, Pangaea, Inner sea, etc...) and not to consider it absolutely seafaring.
Pay attention to the code:
Agressive: A
Creative: C
Expansive: E
Financial: F
Industrious: I
Philosophical: P
Organized: O
Seafaring: M
Spiritual: S


AC: Kublai Khan
AE: Gengis Khan
AF: Huayna Capac
AI: Napoleon
AP: Alexander the Great
AO: Tokugawa
AM: Knut (Viking)
AS: Montezuma
CE: Cyrus (instead of Organized, he created the Persian National Identity)
CF: Catherine
CI: Pacal (Mayan)
CP: Frederick
CO: Louis XIV
CM: Elizabeth (Famous for Shakespeare and other artists during her reign)
CS: Gandhi (rather than Industrious)
EF: Victoria
EI: Bismarck
EP: Peter the Great
EO: Julius Caesar (rather than Creative (?!?!?))
EM: Henry (Portuguese)
ES: Hiawatha (Iriquois)
FI: Qin Shi Huang
FP: Pericles (A new greek leader)
FO: Washington
FM: Airlangga (Indonesian, an exotic location, and an interesting adittion)
FS: Musa
IP: Soliman II (Ottoman)
IO: Roosevelt
IM: Hannibal (Carthage)
IS: Hatshepsut (instead of Creative)
PO: Mao
PM: Teodora (Bizantine)
PS: Saladin
OM: William of Orange (Netherlands)
OS: Ashoka
MS: Isabella

What do you think? I miss Israel and Babylon in my list, but... you'll tell me.
I also suggest that we could choose leaders that changes the name of the civ without creating a new civ. For example:

Aztec Empire with Montezuma (AS) could became Mexico,with Benito Juarez as leader (PO).
Rome with Julius (EO) could became Italy, with Victor Manuel II as leader (I don't know about his life, help me).

If I were to include extra Roman leaders, I propose something else:

either Tribunes Licinius and Sextus (two guys, one leader), PO (plebean reformers), or Emperor Trajan AP/EP.

Others I'd include are the Turks (NOT Ottomans) with Sultan Osman and President Kemal Ataturk (capital Istanbul); Abysinia (or Ethiopia) with Negus Ezama AF, SA, or SF (capital Axum); King (or Pharoh) Shakaba of Nubia (capital Meroe or Napata)--obviously this is a second or third expansion civ but hey he held off the Assyrians; Thai (or Siamese) with King someone whose name I will not bother spelling (capital Bangkok); Carthage with Hannibal AE (duh); Byzantium with Theodora SE or SM; Portugal with Henry the Navigator MO (capitol Lisbon); Babylon with Hammurabi SO or PO and Nebuchadnezzar AI (cap. Babylon); Mai (that means King) Idris Alooma of Kanem-Bornu, SA (cap. Ngazargamu); and others.

Mongols, Carthrage, 1 Turkish Civ, Zulu, Babylon, Aboriginies, Abysinnia(spelled right?), and Siam.
At least thats what I say if 8 civs were added to game.

Mongols are already in it. And I doubt the Aborigines will ever be in a Civ game.

oh yeah my bad
I had a mind blank about that 19th civ.
Replace mongols with Vikings.
The Aboriginies will never be in but they should be.

We need the Celts with Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig aka Brian Boru (The General/High king who massacred the invading vikings) as the leader. Brennus, the sacker of rome should be the second option as leader.

Carthage (Hannibal Barca)
Turks(Mehmet the Conqueroer,Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Sumeria(Gılgamesh)
Babylonians(Hammurabi)
Celts(Brennus)

laxkeep said:

We need the Celts with Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig aka Brian Boru (The General/High king who massacred the invading vikings) as the leader. Brennus, the sacker of rome should be the second option as leader.

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Here's some info of Brian Boru - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Boru

"The popular image of Boru as a ruler who managed to unify the regional leaders of Ireland in order to free the land from a 'Danish' (Viking) occupation originates from the powerful influence of a work of 12th century century propaganda, Cogadh Gaedhil re Gallaibh (The War of the Irish with the Foreigners) in which Boru takes the leading role. This work is thought to have been commissioned by Boru's great-grandson, Muirchertach Ua Briain as a means of justifying the Ua Briain (O'Brien) claim to the High-Kingship, a title upon which the Ui Neill (O'Neill) dynasty had had a monopoly.

The influence of this work on both scholarly and popular authors cannot be exaggerated. Up until the 1970s nearly all scholarly writing concerning the Vikings' activities in Ireland and the career of King Brian Boru accepted the claims of Cogadh Gaedhil re Gallaibh at face value. Most popular authors, often relying on older books for their information, continue to perpetuate a mythical version of Boru's career."

I haven't read the whole article yet..... off to sleep...

so many civs i would like to see each expansion to add 8-12 new civs even if you only have one leader to pick at first then you could add one more leader to the existing civs that only have one!!

Siam hmong or khmer are way over do in the civ games!

Well, the Cambodians (capital: angkor or Phnom Penh) and Congo (capital: Kinshasa) would be great additions!

Lockesdonkey said:

If I were to include extra Roman leaders, I propose something else:

either Tribunes Licinius and Sextus (two guys, one leader), PO (plebean reformers), or Emperor Trajan AP/EP.

Others I'd include are the Turks (NOT Ottomans) with Sultan Osman and President Kemal Ataturk (capital Istanbul); Abysinia (or Ethiopia) with Negus Ezama AF, SA, or SF (capital Axum); King (or Pharoh) Shakaba of Nubia (capital Meroe or Napata)--obviously this is a second or third expansion civ but hey he held off the Assyrians; Thai (or Siamese) with King someone whose name I will not bother spelling (capital Bangkok); Carthage with Hannibal AE (duh); Byzantium with Theodora SE or SM; Portugal with Henry the Navigator MO (capitol Lisbon); Babylon with Hammurabi SO or PO and Nebuchadnezzar AI (cap. Babylon); Mai (that means King) Idris Alooma of Kanem-Bornu, SA (cap. Ngazargamu); and others.

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i always find it people would think up such obscure nations and civs (Nubia, assyrians, etc.) and not think of really OBVIOUS ones like Cambodia, South Africa (this one could be a modern nation, much like america or germany), etc. are people's geography lessons that bad that they don't even know where ANGKOR WAT is?

Yes, please have Italy as the nation instead of Rome. I want to play with Venice, not Aquileia, Milan, not Mediolanium. Not to mention the Medicis, a doge, or even Vittorio Emmanuele II would be much more colorful leaders than Julius. I don't want to mod to get any Italian city but Rome or Naples in the game. (Didn't mean to break up the current discussion).

Stevo_D said:

i always find it people would think up such obscure nations and civs (Nubia, assyrians, etc.) and not think of really OBVIOUS ones like Cambodia, South Africa (this one could be a modern nation, much like america or germany), etc. are people's geography lessons that bad that they don't even know where ANGKOR WAT is?

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I agree that khmer would be a good choise but south africe ? It has neither a long history nor a huge impact on world history - not even among top 100 - sorry. Assyria and Nubia are very ancient and played a role at cradle of civilisation - and therefore they would be a better choise than the young and relativ unimporten South Africa

kingpenguin said:

Yes, please have Italy as the nation instead of Rome. I want to play with Venice, not Aquileia, Milan, not Mediolanium. Not to mention the Medicis, a doge, or even Vittorio Emmanuele II would be much more colorful leaders than Julius. I don't want to mod to get any Italian city but Rome or Naples in the game. (Didn't mean to break up the current discussion).

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What exactly is the problem ? Play Rome and rename the Cities ( and the leader )

Dark Khan said:

Carthage (Hannibal Barca)
Turks(Mehmet the Conqueroer,Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Sumeria(Gılgamesh)
Babylonians(Hammurabi)
Celts(Brennus)

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Yes!!! definetly Turks must be in this Civ list!!! All with its history ( more then 800 years ) it deserves to be a part of this game

MRM said:

What exactly is the problem ? Play Rome and rename the Cities ( and the leader )

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Well, obviously Julius isn't about to look or act like the more colorful Renaissance dukes. At least the game probably includes Italians like Enrico Fermi or Amerigo Vespucci as certain special people in their age of non-unity. I simply don't especially want riflemen saying a warcry in Latin instead of "Verdi!" or something from that revolutionary era. It's not a huge deal, but Rome limits the placement of later Italians in the game.

i would like some of the NW native americans not just the eastern tribes!

Chinook
Bella Bella
Hiada
Shimshin(sic)
Klincut (sic)
Na Dene
Tillamook

although i think the celts, the viking and the Ottmans deserve a spot more i think a polynesian civ would be great.

The Vedians, the Khmer, the Etruscans, the Sumerians, the Ottomans, the Phoenicians and the Vulcans!

Ah well, nevermind the Vulcans.

Come on people, Polynesians and Chinook? It's okay to think Civ should be less Eurocentric, but shouldn't we want to include civilizations that built cities, and big buildings, did some scientific research, wrote stuff, I don't know, left a legacy. Other than bikinis, trinkets and marbles, that is.

Same thing for modern nations that are just a small part of a modern culture. How important is Italy or Turkey really? The Roman and Ottoman empires greatly surpass them in many aspects, and it isn't very practical to have two civs on the same location. It already annoyed me in Civ 3 to see some city names show up several times. Recently I had a 3 Jeruzalems on one continent: a Roman, a Byzantine and an Arab one. Didn't make sense at all!

Ah well, nevermind the Vulcans.

The Romulans and the Dominion were much more impressive. And don't forget the Borg (Industrious, Assimilative)