new civilization: Bulgaria

The file is: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Bulgaria.zip

Civilization: Bulgaria
Noun: Bulgar
Adjective: Bulgarian
Colors: Dark Green
Starts with: Agriculture and Hunting
UU: Bulgarian Horseman (Horse Archer, 1+ moviment and 1+ power)





Title and leader: Khan Boris I Michail
Leader bonuses: Expansive and Aggressive
Leader favourite civic: Hereditary Rule


Cities:
Pliska
Preslav
Ohrid
Turnovo
Sofija
TO BE CONTINUED...

Adding one to both speed and power is a bit excessive concerning early balance.

Flawed city list I see..

Shqype said:

Flawed city list I see..

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tell me where the fails r, I can correct in the next version/Next Level Mod

The UU is clearly overpowerd.

The city you included, "Ohrid," is an Albanian city "Oher" that was given to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and is currently on the border of the present-day state of Albania and Macedonia.

Some say Macedonian is a dialect of Bulgarian, which reflects the origins of the slavic Macedonians, but that city clearly is not Bulgarian...

Smirk said:

Adding one to both speed and power is a bit excessive concerning early balance.

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I agree, it makes the Keshik look very weak.
Civarmy: Please compare to other civs when making UU stats, most of your units are overpowered.

By the way, nice work, I love your civilizations.

I love the way the leaderhead looks, it's very well done.
Balancing the UU isn't an easy thing to do, but when I finish polishing your first edition of The Next Level Mod I can get to work on balacing units like these.

Jecrell said:

I love the way the leaderhead looks, it's very well done.
Balancing the UU isn't an easy thing to do, but when I finish polishing your first edition of The Next Level Mod I can get to work on balacing units like these.

Click to expand...

10 character

Nice artwork, CivArmy, but that's all you have for Bulgarian Civilization.
I don't feel the Bulgarian spirit playing with your mod. So much historical errors and inaccuracies.

The city you included, "Ohrid," is an Albanian city "Oher" that was given to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and is currently on the border of the present-day state of Albania and Macedonia.

Some say Macedonian is a dialect of Bulgarian, which reflects the origins of the slavic Macedonians, but that city clearly is not Bulgarian...

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Shqype, you're not right about Ohrid. Yes, it was not founded as Bulgarian city and yes, it's not Bulgarian now, but it was one of the greatest Bulgarian cities.

It was part of the Bulgarian Empire between 835-1371, (i.e. more than 500 years) as one of the three most important Bulgarian cities.

It was one of the two great Bulgarian literary schools together with Preslav and between 990 and 1015, Ohrid was even capital of the Bulgarian Empire and the seat of the Bulgarian Patriarchate.

To pretend that the former Bulgarian capital was never Bulgarian is just silly.

...and I didn't find any evidences that Ohrid was Albanian city.

Ohrid is a Macedonian(as in: city of Macedonian Slavs, not city of Macedonians Ancient) city.

I don't mention what city is Ohrid now. I meant that this city was great Bulgarian city over time and deserve to be in the list of Bulgarian Civilization cities. As you know, the Bulgarian Kingdom was founded more than 1300 years ago, not yesterday.

I was still a Slavic town.

svetg said:

Nice artwork, CivArmy, but that's all you have for Bulgarian Civilization.
I don't feel the Bulgarian spirit playing with your mod. So much historical errors and inaccuracies.

Click to expand...

what do u suggest?

The city was founded during classical antiquity with the name Lychnidos. It was located along the Via Egnatia, which connected the Adriatic port Dyrrachion (today Durrës) with Byzantium. Archaeological excavations (e.g., the Polyconhous Basilica from 5th century) prove early adaption of Christianity in the area. Bishops from Lychnidos participated in multiple ecumenical councils.

The name Ohrid first appeared in 879. Between 990 and 1015, Ohrid was capital of the Bulgarian Empire. Above the city still remain the ruins of the stronghold of Czar Samuil. From 990 to 1018 Ohrid was the seat of the Bulgarian Patriarchate. The Byzantine conquest of the city in 1018, however, led to downgrading of the Patriarchate to an Archbishopric and to its placement under the authority of the Patriarch of Constantinople.

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I was speaking about before those 25 years before it became the capital of the Bulgarian empire. The Bulgarians had an empire that covered a large portion of the Balkans (including Albania), but the cities it conquered were not necessarily Bulgarian.

Now, I do not debate the Slavic toponym... but under ancient times before it came under Bulgarian control it had another name. Even while it was under Bulgarian control and the name of the city changed, the indigenous population still remained there. Even today Albanians call the city Oher after the Slavic Ohrid... alot of Slavic words were transmitted to our language as a result of the occupation of the Bulgarian empire.

I dont think Ohrid was inhabited with Illyrian tribes that later became albanian. That was South-Vlach country before Slavs came.

The city you included, "Ohrid," is an Albanian city "Oher" that was given to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and is currently on the border of the present-day state of Albania and Macedonia.

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Shqype, I was comenting your ridiculous quote above. Ohrid was founded with the name Lychnidos in the ROMAN EMPIRE. Albania as a civilization exists for less than a hundred years and in this time period Ohrid was never "Albanian". However it was one of the greatest BULGARIAN cities for over 500 years.

Years ago, I was living in Albany, NY, probably "albanian" city "given" to the US and currently the capital of the present-day state of New York.

Shqype, I was comenting your ridiculous quote above. Ohrid was founded with the name Lychnidos in the ROMAN EMPIRE. Albania as a civilization exists for less than a hundred years and in this time period Ohrid was never "Albanian". However it was one of the greatest BULGARIAN cities for over 500 years.

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That is completely false, the internationally recognized state of "Albania" came into existance at the beginning of the 20th century, yes, but the Albanian people (beginning with their Illyrian kingdoms in ancient times) are Europe's oldest surviving ethnic group.

Anima Croatorum, thanks for your fair and thoughtful debate. This is from wikipedia:

In 359 BC, King Perdiccas III of Macedonia was killed by attacking Illyrians. In 358 BC, however, Macedonia's Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great, defeated the Illyrians and assumed control of their territory as far as Lake Ohrid.

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This implies that Liqeni i Ohrit (Lake Ohrid) was Illyrian territory before Philip II incorporated it into his kingdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svetg
Nice artwork, CivArmy, but that's all you have for Bulgarian Civilization.
I don't feel the Bulgarian spirit playing with your mod. So much historical errors and inaccuracies.


what do u suggest?

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IMHO the creation of a new civilization based on existing one is not just to create the new leaderheads, but try to simulate the civilization that ACTS as the real historical civilization. To do this you should learn some history. Don't expect from others to fill your lack of historical knowledge.


I suggest you to take a look on my Bulgarian mod and read this article to get some idea of the Bulgarian civilization.

I can show you some of the crude mistakes only from your initial screenshot:

Noun: Bulgar

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This is the name of one of the Bulgarian tribes that founded Bulgaria. The Noun for the Bulgarian people is Bulgarian

Title and leader: Khan Boris I Michail

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It's true that Boris was initially a Khan of the Bulgarian Kingdom, but this "Khan Boris I Michail" is meaningless. He was the ruller that first adopted Christianity in Bulgaria and Michail became part of his name after his baptism in 864. At this time he was Knyaz (Prince) Boris. So either Khan Boris or Knyaz Boris I Michail is historically correct.

Leader bonuses: Expansive and Aggressive

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Knyaz Boris I was everything, but "Expansive and Aggressive". His military campaigns were unsuccesful.

Leader favourite civic: Hereditary Rule

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He was known to support "Organized religion". Don't forget, he brought Christianity to Bulgaria and baptized his people. He died as a monk later.

His portrait is not correct either. The background shows some gothic window with crosses and naked woman statue. I don't know about you, but I've never seen naked woman statue in the monastery. Where did you get this background from?

As a Khan Boris I was unsuccesful as I mentioned earlier and he become famous much later as a middle-aged man. So, he should be older in your picture too.

The crown he is wearing is not known to the bulgarian historians too. An he was not a chinese either..

I have a lot more to say, but I will not. Looking at your work i understand why you created so many "civilizations": Some generic face paired with some generic background, list of random civics and technologies, four cities, one sentence in the Civilopedia and you proudly pronounce a "New Civilization: [insert your name here]". Then you just can change the civilization and leader name with some, let's say Croation or Goth's leader name and keeping everything you can have a "New Civilization:???"
As everybody can see, you are just a factory of fake civilizations changing leaderheads and UU artwork only.

I don't know about others, but looking at this mod I can't trust you on other "civilizations" you have.