Israelite's Judaism Thread

Israelite9191

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I have noticed that whenever a topic realted to Judaism comes up, people have a lot of questions and have a lot of inaccurate information. So, in the spirit of Matt's Mormon Thread, here is Israelite's Judaism Thread. While I do consider myself to be very knowledgable about my faith, I am not Rashi. I will make the greatest attempt at answering any and all questions and I hope I can clear up any and all misconceptions.
 
Gogf said:
Some people believe this was originally for health reasons.
It could be, but then if so why do they still practice?
 
I read that the kashrut says that you cannot eat animals that eat other animals, but apparently fish are excluded? Am I wrong, and if not why are fish excluded?

Also, I'd like to see an intelligent, logical breakdown to the dietary laws as well, both in terms of relevance when they were created and in terms of their relevance in the modern world.
 
Perfection said:
It could be, but then if so why do they still practice?

These restrictions were added to the religion as a means of protecting the public from health problems. As not everyone agrees that they were added to the religion for this reason, some still practice them today.
 
A lot of the kosher laws were added on by the rabbis who created the babylonian talmud. And although modern Judaism is based in large part around the talmud and Israelites beliefs as well. I do not see the talmud as something that Jews should use as 'divine source' like the Tanakh. Now I'm not saying I agree with stoning people either, but I am saying what made these rabbis so special that we (Jews) have to follow what they say?
 
i have a question- if your ancestors were jewish and when they came to america they converted to catholosism, are you jewish as like a nationality?
 
Warman17 said:
A lot of the kosher laws were added on by the rabbis who created the babylonian talmud. And although modern Judaism is based in large part around the talmud and Israelites beliefs as well. I do not see the talmud as something that Jews should use as 'divine source' like the Tanakh. Now I'm not saying I agree with stoning people either, but I am saying what made these rabbis so special that we (Jews) have to follow what they say?

I don't understand the distinction you're making here. If you agree that lots of stuff in the Tanakh is wrong, then isn't that the same as saying that both the Tanakh and the Talmud is written by people and therefore flawed?
 
No one knows why the dietary laws (Kashrut) came into being in the first place. They were written thousands of years ago and there is debate over who wrote them. As for what the dietary laws are, here we go:

1) Land Animals: Have to have cloven hooves and chew their cud. Both of these things are required (this excludes pigs which, IIRC, only have cloven hooves)

2) Sea Animals: Have to have fins and scales. Both of these are required, this eliminates, among many things, catfish (only fins). Also, shelfish have neither of these, eliminating them.

3) There is a detailed list in the Torah regarding birds. The rules have been decifered from this list and, IIRC, they include: no birds of prey (probably where you go the carnivours thing from), no feathers on the legs, and a certaing kind of beak is prohibited. However, you are safe eating pultry as long as it is properly butchered.

4) There is only one kind of kodher insect, a king of locust. However, they are no longer identifiable and may be extinct so all insects have been deemed un-kosher.

5) I went into depth on meat and milk in the other thread (Xen's one on veal and beef mixing) so I will not repeat myself unless necessary.

6) Blood is not kosher

7) All animals must be slaughtered kosherly. This means at the right point on the neck with an approprately sharp knife and the animal must have been treated well its entire life. Girafe's, technichely, are kosher, but since it is impossible to find the spot to slice the neck, they are never eaten.

8) Meat has to be salted every couple hours or so for a few days after butchering to draw out all the blood.

9) All meat must be completely blemish free and free from any impurities, much higher than USDA or EU standards will ever be.

10) The entire process from raising to killing to shiping to packaging to cooking (if premade and distributed or restaurant) must be monitored by a rabbi.

11) When cooking, the kitchen must be seperated into meat and dairy sections with certain cooking vessels and utensils for meat and others for dairy. Same with serving dishes and utensils. In restaurants and plants, there are actually two kitchens, one for each.

12) All fruits, vegetables, tubers, and grains are kosher. However, a rabbi must oversee the production of anything made from these things to make sure that nothing is done to make it un-kosher (that's the difference between kosher and un-kosher wine).

13) You can not eat anything from a restaurant that serves unkosher food even if what you are eating is kosher since it may be contaminated or you may be giving other Jews the impression that the place is kohser

14) Certain chemicals, preservatives, ingredient substitutes, dyes, etc. are kosher and some aren't. Those that are are observed throughout the process of manufacturing by a rabbi.

Sorry if I missed anything. As you can tell, there are a lot of rules. Also, an interesting thing to note, the only people besides the Coca-Cola corporation to know every ingredient and the entire process to making Coca-Cola is the Chicago Rabinic Congregation, one of the groups of rabbis that oversee kosher food production. Just an interesting side note.
 
@CoolioVonHoolio- That'smore of a cultural than religious Judaism question, but here is how I have asessed the way the Jewish community looks at it. A Jew who becomes a secularist, humanist, or unitarian remains a Jew culutrally/ethnically. A Jew who converts to another religion altogether (like Catholicism) is no longer a Jew religiously or culturally, although still ethnically since one can not change one's blood. You're kind of kicked out of the club. However, if you want to return to the flock, you're more than welcome. ;)

BTW, I live like 30 minutes from you! That's freeky...
 
ironduck said:
I don't understand the distinction you're making here. If you agree that lots of stuff in the Tanakh is wrong, then isn't that the same as saying that both the Tanakh and the Talmud is written by people and therefore flawed?

I'm trying to express my view that
1) I don't think the talmud should be used as a source of law and such (for example keeping kashrut)
2) I don't believe in the infallacy of the torah
3) I do believe that the torah and the talmud attempt to teach us ways to better live our lives and we should follow those guidelines

It's kinda hard to explain my views because it's so mix and matched that people who think that there can ONLY be this or ONLY be that can't see how someone could see both sides.



I am also trying to say that not all Jews follow the practices put down by Israelite in this thread just like there are exceptions to any beliefs.
 
I am trying to express only the majority views and doctrines. I personally do not keep strictly kosher. I am a Reform leaning Conservative Jew, not an Orthodox Jew. Warman appears to be a Reform Jew. I happen to know the philosophies of pretty much every branch of Judaism because my father is a very religious Reform Jew, I go to a Conservative synagogue, and I went to a Orthodox/Conservative Conservative (I ment to repeat that) Hebrew school. Judaism is a very wide spread belief and when I answer questions I will try to answer them with a cross section. Since Ironduck asked for a list of the laws of kashrut, I have them all. If he had asked about if most people followed them, I would have replied that it varies. Sorry for any misconceptions.
 
I actually wasn't asking for the whole list, just for the stuff about predators and fish, but you got that down too :)

What I really wanted to know was this:

Also, I'd like to see an intelligent, logical breakdown to the dietary laws as well, both in terms of relevance when they were created and in terms of their relevance in the modern world.
 
To expand on the above.. if not all jews keep the same dietary laws (I actually thought kosher was pretty much the same across the different interpretations), then I assume it's because they're no longer seen as necessary (for instance, if they were really meant for health issues)?
 
Perfection said:
It could be, but then if so why do they still practice?

TRAAADIIITIIOOOON! Tradition!

Sorry, I just had to do it ;)

Is there any particular reason behind the prohibition of prozelytizing?

Judaism is a tribal religion. The rules are intended to apply to members who have special status with God (aka Chosen People), they're not meant to apply to all of humanity.

Essentially Jews believe (very reasonably imho) that if God had intended for everyone to be a Jew he would have MADE us all Jews ;)
 
For those that follow Kashrut strictly, it is always the same laws that I described. As for those who don't, generally anyone who follows Kashrut but not strinctly decides for themselves to what amount they will follow, usually the first thing to go is the seperate dishes for milk and meat and stuff like that (it is very expensive to keep three [one also for non-meat or dairy products] sets of cookware and utensils).

The reason it has generally been geven up particualarly by the Reform Jewish community is actually because of the specific doctrines of the Reform Jewish community that set it apart. The most basic aspect of the Reform movement is the "Living Torah". This is a concept that dictates that Judaism is an ever living tradition that is alwas evolving and changing, rather than building upon the past. Whereas the Orthodox, and to an extent Conservative, traditions continue evolving by adding new interpretations to old ones and never saying that old ones are outdated, the Reform tradition says that old ones can become outdated. Most, but not all, Reform Jews believe that Kashrut is an example of an outdated tradition.

As for proselytizing, it so much as a prohibition (although there might be one somewhere, although I am notsure) as a tradtion that evolved out of the basic nature of Judaism. Judaism is a relgion of a people that evolved during a time before religions in the way we have them today. It evolved during a time when each nation had its own set of gods and beliefs. Judaism, in its first state, was in this sense just like ancient Greek or Egyptian religion. It was the beliefs of a people, the Israelites, and not a religion like Christianity or Buddhism. Judaism later on became a pioneer in the West (Buddhismin the east IIRC) of shaping religions to be religions in the sense that they are today. Judaism was the first relgion to claim that G-d (also the first to claim one deity only) was the G-d of all peoples, not just themselves. Even though the Jews pioneered this advance in faith, the Jews continued to maintain the belief that the beliefs of Judaism were only for the Israelites and no one else. This persisted on to this day in the form of proselityzing not being an acceptable Jewish practice.
 
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