What is a terrorist?

bhsup

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I posted this exact question in the Mozillazine Afterdark forum almost two years ago. The only thing I am changing is removing any username that wouldn't make any sense here to <interested individual>. Given the totally inane accusation that the US attack in Pakistan recently was a terrorist attack, I felt it important to bring this up here as well.

<interested individual> posed an interesting question (actually a series of them) in the UN sanctions thread basically asking the simple question "What makes a terrorist a terrorist?".

Well, as your friendly neighborhood answer man, I am here to come to the rescue and will answer that question. The short answer is that it depends on the tactics involved, but that is a very limiting answer and doesn't really cover a lot of situations. I think the easiest way to do it is with a series of scenarios.

Scenario 1: Rebellion/Civil War
Rebellion against the lawful governing authority of a nation is not terrorism in and of itself. It is, however, a very interesting situation because the only thing that makes it legitimate is victory. Example - If the British had summarily stomped the holy living snot out of the colonies, then the leaders of the rebellion would all have most likely been hanged as traitors and the rebellion may not have been more than a footnote in the history of the British Empire. However, the colonies won and The British recognized the legitimacy of the new nation via The Treaty of Paris.

Now to apply this scenario to one of <interested individual> queries in which he asked "Are the Chechenians terrorists?". Those that are fighting the Russian soldiers and limiting their actions to those against soldiers or against infrastructure such as railroads aiding the soldiers movements I would say no, they are not terrorists. However, bombings in Moscow at movie theaters and the like..yes, that is a terrorist act.

It doesn't just apply to those fighting "against the system" either. It could be argued quite successfully that Sherman's march to the sea during the American Civil War was loaded with terrorist acts.

Scenario 2: Resistance/Guerilla fighters
This involves citizens of a conquered nation resisting the occupiers. Again, in and of itself this is not terrorism. But it depends entirely upon the tactics involved.

I'll tackle both sides of the issue with Iraq. Those Iraqis (and even maybe non-Iraqis) who are solely fighting against the military of the US or again against things like railroads, I would not call terrorists but rather resistance fighters. Those that are committing the bombings at hotels, the UN headquarters, etc are terrorists.

Now one may think that the Palestinian groups like Hamas should fall under this catagory, but they don't. The Palestinians have a legally recognized authority (the Palestinian Authority) which Hamas does not represent. They would fall under scenario 3.

Scenario 3: Acts of Violence commited by non-nation states.
This is where the vast majority of terrorism comes into play. Only Nations have the legal right to wage war except when covered by scenarios 1 and 2 above. Let's look at Al-quaeda. They are not a national army and they do not represent any nation. Let's take the bombing of the USS Cole as an example. It was taking on fuel in a Yemeni port when Al-quaeda blew a hole in its side. The US was at war with no nation at this time, and yet this group chose to commit an act of war where they have no authority to commit such acts, therefore it was a terrorist act. Even sadder, their targets are frequently not military but civilian with no direct link to military operations.

As stated before, this is where Hamas falls. The Palestinian Authority does not sanction their actions so they have no legal basis to carry out attacks against even Israeli soldiers. Now, if the Palestinian Authority decided war was the way to go and started official armed resistance against Israel, then attacks against soldiers and the like would fall under scenario 1. But, nothing can possibly justify blowing up a busload of schoolchildren even if a soldier happens to be riding the bus. Those types of acts are terrorism any way you slice it.


 
For me a terrorist is a person who tries to terrorize people.

So, when a terrorist blows himself in a bus, he not only tries, and efectively kills civilians, but also terrorizes the rest of the population. So the rest of the population who uses to go to work by bus press and ask the government to give the terrorists what they want.
 
A dilberate attack againest civillians with the purpose of terrorising the population

So things like the bombing of Dresden, blowing up a bus, an others are terriost acts but killing soldiers and military infrastrcture is not
 
Stylesjl said:
A dilberate attack againest civillians with the purpose of terrorising the population

So things like the bombing of Dresden, blowing up a bus, an others are terriost acts but killing soldiers and military infrastrcture is not

I agree with this for the most part.

To cite another example (IMO): I feel that the bombings in Iraq are primarily terrorist acts (even tho they include U.S. soldiers) because of the number of Iraqi civilians killed or otherwise maimed as a result. There are ways that "freedom fighters" or insurgents (depending on perspective) could fight U.S. troops without so many Iraqi casualties.
 
Somebody who attempts to produce political change by intentionally attacking civilians.

There are assasination attempts, and guerilla attacks. Some have called the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan a terrorist attack. In my opinion, those are distinct from terrorist attacks. The key distinction is the target. An airstrike may kill a passerby who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. An assasination attempt may kill off a leader who was a genuinely bad person. Guerilla attacks are a legitimate form of warfare--provided the target is military.

A terrorist, however, points his gun or his bomb at a person who never harmed anybody in their lives. That harmless person is the intended target. And that kind of attack is always wrong. No exceptions.
 
The people who we're up against. If the U.S. must have civilian casualties to achieve a desired result, that is the unfortunate reality of warfare -- people die.

An apartment building in Iraq means much less to me than a similar building in the United States.
 
rmsharpe said:
The people who we're up against. If the U.S. must have civilian casualties to achieve a desired result, that is the unfortunate reality of warfare -- people die.

An apartment building in Iraq means much less to me than a similar building in the United States.

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
 
Japanrocks12 said:
One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I must respectfully disagree. A freedom fighter that targets civilians specifically is still a terrorist, regardless of his or her motivations (as far as I"m concerned).
 
rmsharpe said:
An apartment building in Iraq means much less to me than a similar building in the United States.
and the american wonder why the rest of the world calls them arrogant imperialists:rolleyes:

terrorists are people who terrorize the population, whether intentionally or not. if you plan to blow up on a bus, you're a terrorist, if you are a soldier and kill a civilian during an operation, you are a terrorist, you make the rest of the population think that they could be killed like that next
 
Caprice said:
I must respectfully disagree. A freedom fighter that targets civilians specifically is still a terrorist, regardless of his or her motivations (as far as I"m concerned).

Well, I never said that they couldn't be both. The United States, too, has dealt with civilians in a brutal manner.
 
RoboPig said:
and the american wonder why the rest of the world calls them arrogant imperialists:rolleyes:
I sincerely doubt most people in most countries can honestly say that the events of other countries than their own mean much to them. There is nothing wrong with at least being honest about it.

RoboPig said:
terrorists are people who terrorize the population, <snip> , if you are a soldier and kill a civilian during an operation, you are a terrorist
And I just think that is too general of a definition. By that definition, any criminal could be considered a terrorist simply because he might come get you too.

Japanrocks12 said:
Well, I never said that they couldn't be both.
Fair enough.

Japanrocks12 said:
The United States, too, has dealt with civilians in a brutal manner.
Perhaps we could go a little further and elaborate on that? I'm not surprised, but I don't know of any specific instances where my country's military singled out civilians in war.
 
Japanrocks12 said:
One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
The difference is that in the end, I'll be alive and he'll be dead. There's absolutely no excuse for treason.
 
I've often thought that civilian infrastructure was also 'fair game' if there is a war of attrition going on. For example, munition factories could be a target if there was a war.

There's a fine line between the government and the people (since the gov't is MADE of people, of course). But, attacking the government is an act of war. Attacking the people is not, it's terrorism.
 
El_Machinae said:
I've often thought that civilian infrastructure was also 'fair game' if there is a war of attrition going on. For example, munition factories could be a target if there was a war.

There's a fine line between the government and the people (since the gov't is MADE of people, of course). But, attacking the government is an act of war. Attacking the people is not, it's terrorism.

I agree in general but IMO t's not easy to draw the line exactly.

What about police forces ? If your country is occupied, they are somehow part of the oppression system. ( they are maybe involved in tracking rebels )

What about other public services that partly help the occupier/enemy ( maybe even if thats not their main function )

are they legitimate targets in war or in a resistance fighter ?
 
Better yet, we should ask: "What is NOT a terrorist these days?"
 
RoboPig said:
and the american wonder why the rest of the world calls them arrogant imperialists:rolleyes:

We don't mind being called that, we know that if we get tired of it, we can always bomb you into the stone age.

RoboPig said:
terrorists are people who terrorize the population, whether intentionally or not. if you plan to blow up on a bus, you're a terrorist, if you are a soldier and kill a civilian during an operation, you are a terrorist, you make the rest of the population think that they could be killed like that next

A terrorist is a person that uses unconventional warfare tactics to achieve political, religious, or economic change. A soldier shooting a civilian is not a terrorist, especially if that "civilian" is acting suspiciously, going too close to checkpoints (very frequently, and not just passing through), wandering around military bases, out after military curfew, etc.

Also, I like these quotes between the door gunner and Joker in the helicopter on the movie Full Metal Jacket:

Gunner:"Anyone who runs is a VC, anyone who stands still, is a well disciplined VC."

Joker:"Do you ever shoot women or children?"

Gunner:"Sometimes."

Joker:"How can you shoot women and children?"

Gunner:"Easy, you just don't lead'em so much. Ain't war hell? Ha, ha, ha!"

---------

And I for one support, as a terrorism prevention action (in hostile areas such as Iraq), that anyone that comes within a certain distance of a military bases' perimeter and not wearing any form of ID marking him as a friendly (i.e. local police forces, etc) should be first ordered to stop and placed under arrest, if they try to run towards or away from the base, shoot them. They run towards the base, they may be trying to suicide bomb it, or run away from it they may be running away to inform other terrorists about layout, strength or whatever about the base. Or they may be running away to tell their friends where to hit with a suicide bomber to do the most damage.
 
Rambuchan said:
Oh the village drunk is at it again I see...

My days of drinking to the point of getting drunk are thankfully far behind me. I enjoy the occasional (as in maybe once every few months) whiskey sour or rum and coke, but that's about it.
 
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