"Care to Negotiate?" for request to declare war???

J

jefmart1

Prince
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
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463
How come you can't ask for money or tech to comply with this?

To get anyone else to declare war you have to pay them. This is also kind of interesting since there are no negative effects for the computer to ask you for anything but you get penalize if they refuse; and vice versa.

Theoretically, the AI players have a huge advantage that could be exploited if they just keep asking for stuff. To maintain good relations you would have to give it up. Even more unfair is that you cannot even ask for things that are "redded" out, but they can ask for anything.

I mean obviously I am not going to war with my closest friend and ally because a civ that won't trade me gunpowder because they don't like me enough asks.

The AI should be held to the same rules on asking as the player is...and you should be able to negotiate when they make requests.
 
I agree 100%. That's a completely unfair part of the game. We should be at least bribed for declaring war on people.
 
I couldn't agree more. It's a pity to see that they didn't make any major (in my opinion) improvements in diplomacy. Sometimes i wonder how can they even add new staff and ignore improving the old ones.

nice avatar btw dirtyparrot. Those guys in futurama are hilarious :lol:
 
I've though always about this... and agree 100%. And when they ask I declare war there should be option that I'll declare in 5 turns... not at the moment.
 
It would also be nice to be able to respond with economic aid for their war effort rather than actual physical involvement.
"Sorry, I just don't have the troops to help right now but I do support your efforts so...maybe this Oil would be of some use to you..."
 
Add me to the chorus of folks who are annoyed at the 'red out' issue.

I suppose, from one point-of-view, it does save you time, as in ye olden days you would ask for things only to get the 'turn-down'. At least now it stops you from the get-go.

HOWEVER, it some demonstrates a very limited diplomacy routine on the AI's part. What I was (in theory) prepared to offer half my cities and 10,000 Gold for a Tech that the AI has? I'm not even sure I am allowed to make the offer. No Civ handy, but can I still put stuff on the table and ask them what they will give for it? (ala Civ3)?
 
mjs0 said:
It would also be nice to be able to respond with economic aid for their war effort rather than actual physical involvement.
"Sorry, I just don't have the troops to help right now but I do support your efforts so...maybe this Oil would be of some use to you..."
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100% as well. I think this would add a better change in the diplomacy function and make war a more realistic option. I would also like to see a better "Do not trade with X civ" function. Where you could choose what sort of goods you want them to stop, for example military resources, or food/health resources, or happiness goods.

That would make economic sanctions a bit more realistic, and it would be fun if you could take that up for vote in the U.N. I'm really hoping they address the U.N. in the expansions. I wasn't around for the upgrades from Civ 3, and only purchased the complete version a few months prior to Civ 4's release. Did they do any major gameplay mechanics updates?
 
There definitely should be an option to negotiate on AI's pleads for help. Even if I couldn't declare war for an ally, I might still give him technological help to keep good relations with them.
 
This drives me nuts too. My favorite is when some dildo who your relations with are around -15 or so, that you have had 2 wars with, asks you to go to war with your oldest ally, who you are at +14 with. This happened to me this week, and it was even more ironic because I was still observing the peace treaty I had with the dildo from the last time my oldest ally had talked me into going to war with them. And the stupid ai asked me 3 turns later for a trade embargo, as if all of a sudden I would change my mind. But god help you if YOU want to go to war with someone and want help, cause you cant even ask most of the time.
 
I find that if I am "Friendly" with an AI they will often join me in declaring war on an opponent who we are both "Annoyed" at free of charge. "Pleased" AIs usually require some sort of bribe to join me against "Annoyed" opponents, or "Friendly" vs "Cautious".

I agree though that more diplomacy features would be nice.
 
How about when you bribe someone with 3 techs to go to war basically on your behalf , and then they moan and whinge for you to join them?

I mean, if I'd wanted to go to war then I would have done so in the first place...
 
The current diplo system definitely has some elements that are just plain not fun. And it's a shame, because they seem pretty simple to fix.

1) An AI should never be able to ask (as help or tribute) for a tech that you hold a monopoly on.

2) The AI's should almost always offer you something in exchange for helping with a war. I have never, ever been offered any incentive to declare. And yet the AI's almost always (say 4 times out of 5) demand a tech in exchange for their help.

Actually, that's about all I'd ask. There are a couple of other things that are pretty clearly stacked against the human player, like the whole "human can't red out techs" issue. But I don't really care about fairness - that's what the difficulty slider is for. Having to overcome obstacles is OK, provided they're fun obstacles. The current situation just makes you feel like a punching bag with no genuinely good choices.
 
cleverhandle said:
The current diplo system definitely has some elements that are just plain not fun. And it's a shame, because they seem pretty simple to fix.

1) An AI should never be able to ask (as help or tribute) for a tech that you hold a monopoly on.

2) The AI's should almost always offer you something in exchange for helping with a war. I have never, ever been offered any incentive to declare. And yet the AI's almost always (say 4 times out of 5) demand a tech in exchange for their help.

Actually, that's about all I'd ask. There are a couple of other things that are pretty clearly stacked against the human player, like the whole "human can't red out techs" issue. But I don't really care about fairness - that's what the difficulty slider is for. Having to overcome obstacles is OK, provided they're fun obstacles. The current situation just makes you feel like a punching bag with no genuinely good choices.
Click to expand...

Well put , that man :)
 
I agree 100%... on a similar note I alway getter annoyed when AI civs demand that I stop trading with other civs and I have to reply before every getting the chance to look at what deals I have with the civ in question...
 
I agree with the first post, what I would also like to see is something from Rome ttotal war.

"Give us X, or we will declare war"

Edit: and also to expand on the origernal post.

Maybe there should be another option, "We will declare war in X turns"

This would allow you to move your forces into place, think about it, you might not have any units on ur boarder closest to the enemy in question so your land would be open for pillaging.
 
You say there's no penalty for the AI to ask you for stuff. But whenever they ask me for tribute I always mentally mark them as my next target for annexation.
 
Acceptable_Loss said:
I agree 100%... on a similar note I alway getter annoyed when AI civs demand that I stop trading with other civs and I have to reply before every getting the chance to look at what deals I have with the civ in question...
Click to expand...

you can always hit F4 (foreign advisor), even when these pop up. took me way too long to realize this.
 
This is part of the problem which I generally call: "Diplomacy in Civ4 sucks"
 
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