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|Feb 23, 2006, 12:10 AM||#1|
Join Date: Jan 2006
[MOD]Stone Ages : Pre Alpha
Well, its a start, and I got modest plans, but I thought I would start a thread, and just update as I bring it in, that way I got a place to keep semi-stable versions of my mod - heh
Anyhow - a quick recapping of what I did last night.
Introduced 4 new Eras - Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic and Chalcolithic stone ages.
Put in some techs, namely....
Awareness of Seasons
The Catching of Fish
The Gathering of Food
These then leed on to...
Stone Knapping (Which may later be changed to Olduwan StoneKnapping)
I'll add more techs tomorow - they all have their own graphics and are sweet!
Then I added a civic
[City States] - still to be added
New units include
Tribal Bands (Replaces Warrior)
Gatherer (Replaces Scout - in a way)
Hunter (Replaces Scout - in a way)
Tribe (Replaces Settler - but can't be built in early Paleolithic Era)
Stone Axemen (You know - carries sharp rocks
Paleolithic Archer (I am going to add an inbetween unit for this one that will be upgradeable called a 'Boomerangian' or 'He who throws sticks - and a Paleolithic Spearmen)
New buildings include the following also...
And 2 Wonders to crown it off
Lascaux Caves (Cave Paintings in every city)
Oberkassel Burial (Burial Ground in every city)
Dang and 4 new soundtracks that I added as well - but you can't hear them till Neolithic Era - and since you can't get to the Neolithic Era.... - They need to be reworked into the XML (I am still noob) but I think I can manage that some time.
Ahh - not to forget the 2 new terrain improvements you can do as well (they are not very good since this is early Paleolithic - but they do a small bit)
Gatherers Post (maybe later to be called something like 'Prefered Gathering Field')
If anyone wants to jump on board this project just PM me or reply on this thread.
In particular I need someone who is very fluent in Python and has maybe like 4-8 hours a week spare, and a specialist historian on the Stone Age - since both subjects for me are only to a modest level. Sure I am doing the research - but good info on this period is hard to find (Especially Paleolithic - only comes in drips and drabs)
Technologies (In no order)
Stone Needles (Allows sewing)
Canoes ---> Rafts(Later on)
Gifts ---> Barter(Later on - might go as far as trade)
National Council(?? - This was going to be the last step on the organization list - but from what I have read - most civs of this era never progressed past city states)
Advanced Stone Wroking (Levolis Technique)
Horse Riding (Bare-back)
[AGRICULTURE] Has been left out for a reason- it is not Paleolithic - yes this mod covers four eras, but I am working on getting the first era (Paleolithic) up and happening first.
LandRollers (Many logs laid down neckst to each other)
[FALCONRY,DOGS and OTHER Domestication] Has been left out for a reason- it is not Paleolithic - yes this mod covers four eras, but I am working on getting the first era (Paleolithic) up and happening first.
Flint (Quicker Production Speeds)
Obsidian (Better Quality Material (+1 Combat Value - or 150% work speed))
Horn/Ivory/Bone (Highly Available)
Meat (From young)
A stray Tyranosaurus left over from the ice age
Maybe even a Pteradactal, or a SeaSerpent of some kind
Several of mankinds earliest beliefs to be included (including The Worship of Gods(Including the Sun God, Moon Good, Lightining God, etc...), The Worship of Man, The Worship of God, The Worship of Nature(mostly dealing with animal/tree spirits))
Big plans is what is coming here - think of tree-like structure and rewriting the interface in python.
Dang - do I have plans - but since I need more info on how to import stuff to the game - this unfortunately is on hold (but by no means is that indefinate - I am looking into ATM)
Any suggestions - comments or just straight out plain old words that don't really mean anything are welcomed
While I am waiting for the upload I will ellaborate....
This mod is actually ment to be historical (pah!)
But I have a wargame desgined for dungeons and dragons that I made up called The Ranori Delta, I was hoping of expanding on it, and contracting a little maybe and bringing it into the world of CivIV.
Ranori is set in the Chalcolithic Era - and I want to carry this on to the late middle ages, maybe even early renaisence, but I also want to include magic.
So when I start getting this historical Stone Era looking repectable, I plan on breaking off onto another project called Ranori, and incorporating yet more again into a seperate mod.
I have already began thinking, and I am going to need to improve some of the interfaces (Such as Civics, since I have some major plans in that domain), as well as projects, and other ideas.
I have several 3DS models already sorted out, and while I am not planing on using them all, I think a few of them are suitable for Ranori, and maybe even Stone_Era_Mod. When I have this compleated, I will move onto the bronze age, then to the iron age, then to medieval, and then to renaisence, so I am digging myself in quite deep with this project, but hey, its nothing for me.
I must say that since I had to muck around with a few of the ArtDefines, things became a little less stable for the mod, and while I havn't compleatly checked things out, I am pretty sure I got the problem fixed, if you experience any problems (like Software Errors and the kinds, such as being booted out of the game etc...) let me know on this thread.
I was a little disapointed in myself for having instabilities this early in the project, but hey - I am still learning about modding - so I guess it is ok - provided the mod worx!)
Anyhow - upload is almost ready, and the link is....
REMOVED - Outdated
And the file is 15.93 MB (cause of all the music mainly - next time I will take it out - but I am to zzzzzzzzzzz)
**EDIT&SPECIAL NOTE**:BTW - I don't feel this mod is playable ATM, it needs some major tweaking and more techs and some balancing - I am working on the sumeria civ as I speak, and there is just a lot of things that need to be done - that said - by all means download and take a look (Hitites are still unlooked at and very likely to be glitched), comment - and point me in any direction you think the mod should go, I have a moderatly open mind, and as mentioned, this was put up to get some ideas for it.
**EDIT**ue to the rapid creation of a few sample civilizations that were never really put together properly....
... Anyhow - its the Hitites that are the problem - I'll get to working on it soon - (See Below)
V0.00.01 - Compleated Paleolithic Fibers
+I was thinking of making it so that a civ would have to specialize in a particular fiber - or maybe 2, have seperate techs for them, and maybe introduce a fair bit of culture into the tech tree through this, I am kind of balking at it though - that would make a lot of technologies, on the other hand I could swing it that there is a main fibers technology tree, with a few branches that only the fundemental techs for fibers would open up, some branches could be quite large, and there could be many of the as history progresses, not really certain yet, but the potential is there.
Since this version is stable (except for some turbulence with the civilizations) I will upload it later (gimme about an hour or two + upload time) - New version uploaded
New version now includes Zuul's Exotic Animals Mod
Era Stone Age V0.00.03 With Zuul's Exotic Animal Mod - 4.63 Meg
Last edited by AcidSphinx; Feb 24, 2006 at 12:56 PM.
|Feb 23, 2006, 01:01 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
This is very interesting, and hardly modest, as you claim early in the post (and I find it pretty funny - carrying sticks and rocks and all that). I hope it goes well. (I'm not going to playtest it now, but maybe I will in a few weeks.). Are you going to do anything to keep cities nice and small, or are you not concerned about that?
|Feb 23, 2006, 01:22 AM||#3|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
So I lied. I tried to play it after all, since I was curious. However, I failed. When I clicked on Hittite, the game crashed. Since I'm running a slow PC, I'm not going to try again right now.
|Feb 23, 2006, 03:39 AM||#4|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Yes I have slowed down a lot of things, I'll list a few here, and I'll stabilize the mod in a few minutes and re-upload - there is an error in the dawn of man section due to some poorly written XML.
But the slow downs include
Slow Tech Speeds (EPIC and MARATHON are truely for the brave)
+This is due to the fact that in the early paleolithic era things wern't researched, they were simply discovered, if practical they became a way of life, if not, they were '"DROPPED"'
+This mod assumes that at the start of the Paleolithic Era, Man (and Woman - don't forget her) was just climbing out of the caves, I want to mod the graphics for early towns so that they actually consist of pit houses (burrows) and teepees, later when mud bricks get developed I was going to change the art Deco to something akin to Adobe(s).
Slow Troop Production
+I experimented with this, my first attempt was pitiful, there was almost an 80 turn gap between when my first Tribes Men got slain by Lions (Which are much tougher when you have no weapons save your bare hands), so I reduced it a bit just to make it playable, I will tweak this aspect out in the next couple of days so that you should always have a troop that you can move about.
+But not as slow as I would like, I am sorely tempted to make it so that the first expanding of the borders is fairly swift (like in about 50-100 turns maybe - remember the idea of Paleolithic is the period from about 2,000,000 to about 8,000 (or 4,000)BC) and then making the next expansion something you really have to work hard for, and the one after that simply not possible till the discovery of tin - or close to it.
The Burial Sites
+I tucked in a bonus +1 health from these, when your cities do grow - as I really can't help it that much (maybe - I'll stay reserved on the issue), since there are so many techs in the paleolithic era, and I want all of them to provide a bonus of some sort, so most of them will give bonus culture and food, causing cities to grow fairly rapidly, even when considerably slown down. When I get to version 0.01.00 - I'll be satisfied that the mod is mildly playable through the Paleolithic Era, and I'll be taking suggestions on balancing things then.
+have been virtually eliminated, but since I havn't got to putting in any good great people yet this really doesn't bother me yet.
+And yes I neglected to mention that I had to put in new civs, not only due to the shift in Eras, but because to many of the other ones didn't have apropriate special units in relativity to the stone age. The reason they were omited from above is because I have hardly done enough work on them to actually call them new civs, they very much are just shells, with new names, and starting Techs, put in just so peps could see the mod as it now stands (think I spent about 30 minutes doing the civs)
+Also virtually eliminated, there is no gouvernment at the start, not till TXT_KEY_TECH_TRIBALISM(lol), so I thought to nuke the anrachy till things get rolling at dawn of the Mesolithic Era, when radical changes occur in the way man looks at civilization.
+OK, so there is a down side, and this is it, I still need to do a lot of tweaking yet, because IF you charge of and shot straight for Tribalism, so that you can make tribes, which can build cities, and you throw 3 or 4 of them up, it don't matter how many buildings you build, if you havn't prepared really really well, the economy crashes, this is actually an unexpected accuracy to the era, early civilizations frequently went under due to excessive growth, but it can be anoying stuck on a mear 3-4 cities till you get to the Mesolithic (which will probably be the better starting era, see below), especially when the economy stalls (and at 3 or 4 cities, with the current improvements it WILL stall, if not crash)
+The gameplay of the Paleolithic Era looks like it is following a pattern of sorts, get to tribalism, so you can build Tribes(Settelers), and expand, first to do so will be in front, then get a few techs that you might need from Paleo, and shoot off to Meso, where things become a little better for mankind, if you try to get all the starting techs in one fell sweep before advancing to Meso, you will be suffering immensly, I am going to try to make it so that all the branches of the technology tree are good, but so that you will have to specialize in your favoured school(s) of research, such as military/culture/growth/research/religion/etc... - this is not the final word, it just seems to be the initial trend of the mod.
About the only thing I left alone on the throatles of speed was the rate at which you build in the city, but I had heavily modified the research costs, and hence it has just turned out to be a slow march through the early periods, I'll change this later to reflect a more processor friendly method of doing things.
I have also been toying around with new graphics, I have compleated an ACE Jaguar which I am trying to mod into the mod, butI have had no luck so far, I don't really want another great cat anyhow, but I was just doing it for education, what I really want is my Ape.3DS imported, but I am lost as to how to do it
Anyhow - I best go off and stabilize that glitch - be back soon
|Feb 23, 2006, 05:37 AM||#5|
Join Date: Oct 2005
I know quite a lot on stone age religion, so maybe this will help you, if you have other questions, please pm me.
- before 5000 BC : Animism: All living things are divine. No real worship.
- after 5000 BC : Paganism: All living things are part of the divine nature. Worship of nature by offering animals & plants.
- after 3500 BC : Pantheon: The Arya (where now is Kazachstan) developed the first pantheon, with the sky-god as leader and minor gods to help him. Most of the vedas (Hindu texts) were written by the Arya or are based on Aryan beliefs. Worship of the gods by offering animals & plants.
note that none of the above had temples. The Aryans had offerplaces with a small altar, but it was no building.
- after 3000 BC: Hinduism: Although it is a pantheon, hinduism introduced reincarnation. People had to live their life as good as possible and the better you lived, the better you would reincarnate into.
- after 1500 BC: Zoroasterianism (Zarathustra): Zarathustra, a priest, lived on the Aryan steppes and concluded that people who stole, kill, ..., were evil, did those things in the name of the evil sky-god. He explained to the other priests that one good God had to be worshipped, and the other minor gods were only there to support the great good God.
Will go further if you want, but for now, I'm going to eat my lunch.
EDIT: I forgot something very important, so:
The Aryans traded with many other tribes and so spread "their" religion. Every civilization made his own version:
3500 BC: Sumerian pantheon
3000 BC: Akkadian pantheon, Babylonian pantheon
2000 BC: Egyptian pantheon
1500 BC: Greek pantheon
Last edited by Bevertje; Feb 23, 2006 at 05:43 AM.
|Feb 23, 2006, 09:06 AM||#6|
Join Date: Jan 2006
One thing I really got to do, and do it soon - Discover some good Stone Age Civilizations - so if anybody has an names of civlizations they would like to see incorporated into this mod - holler out now.
So far the best two that I have are...
I also sussed out some others
some guy called Perthes discovered an ancient civilization that was not really up to being a civilization at the time (ie, prehistoric man who socialized - but didn't really build any structures) - they are refered to as Perthesian Civiliazation, since the only historical stuff backing this up is archaelogical digs, it will be kind of hard to give the Perthesians a leader unless I craft one out of fantasy, as is unfortunately the case with a lot of Paleolithic cultures
Another one that I found was SON VI civilization, that eventually descends into what why now call Vietnamese
And since I am Australian - I though also to include aboriginal - if you can believe the hype, they are probably the most ancient race of humans still existant to this day, and if you look at pictures of the pure bread aboriginal you see an uncanny resmeblence to Homio Sapius - I know a fair few things about aboriginal austrlia - but often wish I knew more, their folk tales are quite legendary, and would make any scientist rofl!!
I intend to include a tech tree for folk lore, once story telling is established in the Paleolithic - this is among the earliest quasi-religions that ever existed.
Mostly to do with stories about how animals behaved, how the great dragons put fire in the wood so that if you rubbed it together it wood light tinder, and that before such time, you could rub and rub and rub, but it would never make any heat, or why a particular bird doesn't fly (I seem to remember a tale about a peacock cheating in a competition of who could fly the highest), etc...
I hope to encompass a wide variety of aspects in the mod, and am looking forward to the challenges ahead - on that note.....
Other things I need besides civilizations is a map script for the placement of the new bonuses which are not coming up on the maps as planned. ATM the old bonuses are there, but since they are all disabled, you get absolutely zero terrain bonuses unless you manually place them in World Builder.
And lastly - A thing that I am in dire need of is a special mod for civics, if someone could point me to an endless resivour of knowledge on which python files gouvern the Civic screen (I know - look and you will find) - but hey - worth asking - lol
I am guessing religion is prolly going to be out until the Mesolithic era, and even then - only in its roughest elements, this is discouraging, but factual. I read a lot of books about the magical stone age, and guess that other than what I've mentioned Paleolithic Man was still strugling with communication and social skills (like not wanting to smash a large rock over the head of some ignorant fool, etc...)
With such sketchy records from those times, and a game that generates such un-earthlike geographies, I will probably have to twinge a little on fiction to make the age compleate /humph
Last edited by AcidSphinx; Feb 23, 2006 at 09:11 AM.
|Feb 23, 2006, 12:41 PM||#8|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Very cool. I like it. I can't download now I'm at work.
I had a couple of quick ideas for you though. The stone ages are actually a pretty good chunk of time culminating in the agricultural revolution from which emerged the late stone age modern precursors to today. This is starting with the earliest stone tools and shard knives.
You could have the Neadertals as a civ. I believe they were around for some part of the stone ages in N Europe. I would also look to the stone age cultures of the world for other ideas.
Settlers should be spawned, by a small national wonder/event, maybe even after x turns. Perhaps different types of settlers. Maybe ones that could only settle on a newly modified mountain tile, cave? Or, maybe different civs have different settlers? some only on plains, or jungle, etc. Settlers should be rare, until the late game, and not built normally.
If theoretically, you could get the engine to make resource tiles such as prey herds move eachturn, you could even have migrating cities? The technologies should open up wheat, flint, or obsidian, gold...they may be like this already, perhaps there could be a way to take some flint from the site of resource back to the city, before later building a city there to master it? Similar to the idea with the animals.
Goody huts should regenerate and have a much wider variety of outcomes, and give quirky bonuses, possibly settlers, or events.
The random events mod would be sweet. Insert ideas.
Perhaps the early hunter gatherers could actually go gather food and production? (2f1p) and bring it back akin to a treasure a civ3. As mentioned above, perhaps the resources could redistribute each turn.
One other thing. Barbarians shouldn't just be rival tribes. Maybe animal barbarians that last the whole game. Insert giant sloths, cat dens, a tribe of semi giants, sabretooth etc... This could also open up a minor mythology angle here. Again killing an animal or say a cave bear should provide food and production to the tribe some how.
Looking forward to downloading it this evening.
|Feb 23, 2006, 12:54 PM||#9|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Iuvavum, Roman Province Noricum
@ AcidSphinx: "One thing I really got to do, and do it soon - Discover some good Stone Age Civilizations - so if anybody has an names of civlizations they would like to see incorporated into this mod - holler out now."
Well, I have some ideas:
If you want to go back very deep into the past:
If you want to use more "modern" civs:
Hallstatt-people (in todays Austria)
La-Tene-people (in todays Swizerland)
Kurgan-people (in todays Russia)
Lausitz-people (in todays Poland)
Battleaxe-people (I don't know the English term, the German term for this people is "Streitaxtleute" or "Streitaxtkultur"; in Northern Europe)
You could also use ancient cultures like:
This were suggestions for European civs, I'm sure, there were peoples in in other continents, who also ar worth becoming a civ in your mod, but I don't know much about them.
I hope, this post was helpful.
|Feb 23, 2006, 04:38 PM||#10|
Join Date: Nov 2005
Very nice I really missed stone age. Have you checked out my Animal mod with a few predators from the Stone Age? (check sig)
|Feb 23, 2006, 06:52 PM||#11|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Urbana, IL
Interesting and bold idea. I'm a little scared by what sounds like an incredibly slow pace. 80 turns to build a warrior??
as you say
|Feb 23, 2006, 07:14 PM||#12|
Join Date: Nov 2005
wow, this is a really nice idea
Some idea's for the civ's
Some African tribes like: Ashanti, Maasaii and Zulu, info on other african tribes can be found here
Some Indian tribes like: Souix, Apache and Hinuit, info here
Some central american tribes like: Aztecs, Toltecs, Maya and Inca's info here.
you can also check out civarmy's civilizations. he made a lot of civs of minor tribes, with some goodlooking LH's (which might be to modern).
another idea: replace culture by territory. I just think it makes more sense this way, in a tribal sphere.
|Feb 23, 2006, 07:33 PM||#13|
Join Date: Nov 2005
religions: Voodoo, Witchcraft (or something like that), maybe some kind of beginning religion, like worshipping specific objects (think: a stone on a hill, for instance), polytheism (norse tribes worshipped multiple gods, though this might be too advanced), worshipping the tribe leaders (the tribal people see him as a supreme leader and do anything he says/grunts), pagaism and maybe the worship of the ancestors.
more tribe ideas: Norse and Maori
and i like the idea on the real discovering thing, BUT all technological breakthroughs are more or less based on luck. example: a lot of money is spend on cloning (don't start a discussion on this subject please), but that doesn't give gaurantee that we will/would (don't know the progress of this) ever find a solution. It would be just pure luck, that the right chemical is added or that the conditions will be made just perfectly for the cloning to start (on biological stuff pH for instance can make a lot of difference in small changes. the chance that the right pH is reached would be small in this example).
edit: you might also want to add weaponry to your tech tree
|Feb 23, 2006, 08:02 PM||#14|
Crazier than thou
Join Date: Jan 2006
This mod is a really good idea. If only I could figure out how to incorporate it with other mods, or perhaps even make it a standard part of the game. Ah well. One can only dream.
|Feb 23, 2006, 11:29 PM||#16|
Join Date: Feb 2006
I downloaded and played about 100 turns. Here's what I've got
Start screen for the game didn't show a leader head, and no play game button..etc..the box was there, but nothing else, I hit the esc button to let me through
I started with every tech available?
I could see every resource in the vanilla game from the get go uranium, aluminum, coal etc...I'm sure these are place holders for flint and what not, and I could see them all bc of the tech thing?
Minor bug. When off screen a highlight unit displayed a strange all team color arrow? Maybe intended.
You need new leader heads/civs/city names/Unit reskins
Cities expanded very quickly?
I got gold in every goody hut?
I love the idea for this mod. I'm a little unsure of your direction, but I like both strands of the thought. You are either making a stone age based on the Earth, or on your RPG world, or both?
I think that slowing the tech tree in a % way should not be the answer to slowing the research rate. To go in a historical way the tech tree should kind of be two eras discovery/hunter gatherer (early stone age), and use/foundation of modernman (late stone age). Perhaps players could access nothing but food and production in the early game. No gold no tech, or on a limited carriable treasure type way. Techs open up resources that would allow gold, trade, interaction, and spur development.
I have no idea if this is possible, and I'll try to summarize.
Early stone age man hunted and gathered resources. We need to find a way for you to send out units, and gather food/production/gold from resources & animals. It would also be a great thing if we could make some resources respawn each turn, herds, and cities that could repack into a settler and move to take advantage of shifting resources.
Take obsidian for example. You just got the tech that lets you see it, but you can't use it, that's stage two, so your still following around animal resources and animal units for food and production b/c that's the only way to get them early, BUT you can grab a treasure off the obsidian, since you can see it, with a gatherer to bring back gold, and later you could actually use it for axes and what not.
The pattern is discovery, and use in this time period. (same for fire, dyes, gold, other soft metals, etc.)
A thought on other civs. I think they should all start at war, and have ways to raid each others resources. The concept of peace is a later one, a distinctly human one. So early on it's not war, it's an animal that's more fit acting it's place.
On the topic of settlers. Founding cities should be very rare until the very late game. This era was about exploration, not expansion. Respawning goodie huts with a huge variety of outcomes.
Most of my other ideas from the first post apply after playing so far as well. Random Events Mod, Upgrades shoud be more stone agey, Barbarian animals that can enter boundaries/ more variety of animals. Civs should be specialists for starting locations...see post above
I hope some of this helps. I'm a history major, if you need assistance in ideas or tech trees, I'm also trying to learn to reskin. I'll give a go at some of these units. Any that you need in particular? I downloaded 3dmax software, but that stuff is greek. I even spent a couple of hours trying to find a help guide, but I don't know if I can pick it up in 30 days.
Tech Idea: Canine Companionship
|Feb 24, 2006, 04:10 AM||#18|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Just climbed out of bed....
WoodElf : TY
Iuvavus : I will get onto putting them into the game next, I really needed some civs - I had hoped 18 all up, so that there was available a different one for each of the in game slots, but in the end I really only need 18 leaders
Zuul : No I havn't seen your animal mod - ty for pointing it out - I will have a look today
Suspendinlight: thats a nice idea - I will look into the python needed...
Haarbal : sweet - today I will be adding civs - so thats just what I need, and the religion you describe is what I pictured for mesolithic.
Starship: the civs I placed in the game were merely place holders - so a lot of bugs crept in there - which I will be getting onto today, when you started with every tech available I am assuming you started in the Ancient Era, I am guessing that if you try custom game instead of play now you can actually pick which part of the stone age you want to start in, if not - I am not sure of the bugs - but I will definatly look into it today
Kurland : ty
|Feb 24, 2006, 05:19 AM||#20|
Crazier than thou
Join Date: Jan 2006
Our of curiosity, just when exactly is this mod taking place, IRL? I ask because I think the Stone Age was several thounsad years (More than twenty thounsand). If we could narrow down the years in which this mod is taking place, it would be easier to find civs, techs, and buildings that are correct for this time period.
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