WTD: Civilization religion free again

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civ2gamer

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I much preferred how religion was approached in Civ 1-3. I haven't purchased, or even wanted to play, Civ 4 because the whole religion thing leaves me uneasy.
(I have purchased and loved Civ2MGE, Civ2TOT, Civ3 Complete).

I move that we have a return to religion free Civ. There is too much controversy in Civ 4.

The line below sums up Civ1-3 style religion.
"Religion is... the opium of the people." - Karl Marx: Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right

I propose to Firaxis one of two options:
1: A mod pack to remove all trace of organized religion in Civ 4.
2: Civ 4/5 with Civ1-3 style religion instead.

*****
I'm not trying to start a holy war with this thread. I just feel as many fellow 'Civers' this religion thing is too controversial for a fun [and adictive]game.

Civ2gamer - Civ2TOT rocks!
 
I think that the religion aspect of Civ4 is actually very vanilla. In order to avoid controversy they have made all the religions the same and frankly could just be called Religion A, Religion B etc. However, I do think they add something to the gameplay. The income boost from holy cities, the culture/happiness boost for state religion, missionaries, these are all great additions to Civ. Still not convinced? Play a game without any religion. Its doable and forces you to focus on a secular, science based society.

In summation, religion isn't that much of a deal, isn't that contreversial (at least in Civ4) and can add heaps to the game if ou want it to. Have a go, you might enjoy yourself.
 
civ2gamer said:
I much preferred how religion was approached in Civ 1-3. I haven't purchased, or even wanted to play, Civ 4 because the whole religion thing leaves me uneasy.
(I have purchased and loved Civ2MGE, Civ2TOT, Civ3 Complete).
Click to expand...

What is it about the "religion thing" that leaves you so uneasy?
Is it only because it is controversial to you?
Does not slavery make you uneasy? how about fascism? war? nukes?
These are all represented in the game, yet religion which lacks any identity in the game makes you so uneasy that you will not purchase it.
Controversy is a part of history as is religion and civ is based on history so I have no objection with religion in the game. In fact I strongly favor giving religion in the game their individual identity by adding modifiers and unique units.

I move that we have a return to religion free Civ. There is too much controversy in Civ 4.
Click to expand...

Motion denied as far as I'm concerned. Religion is not at all controversial to me especially when religion in the game is uniform.


I propose to Firaxis one of two options:
1: A mod pack to remove all trace of organized religion in Civ 4.
2: Civ 4/5 with Civ1-3 style religion instead.
Click to expand...

I propose that you design a mod that removes religion for the like-minded people.
A good idea for people who dislike controversy and bury their heads in the sand whenever faced with any type of controversy.

I'm not trying to start a holy war with this thread. I just feel as many fellow 'Civers' this religion thing is too controversial for a fun [and adictive]game.Civ2gamer - Civ2TOT rocks!
Click to expand...

Religion adds realism, and more realism makes for a more addictive game.
 
You should actually play the game to see how the religions function before passing judgement. It absolutely amazes me that in a game where you can commit horrendus atrocities and complete genocide of civilizations, some people are offended by a little aknowledgment of religious influnce.
 
For the record:
I modified the games.txt files in Civ2TOT to remove all traces of nuclear material, including SDI.

If one reads the other forums at civfanatics, there is considerable discussion about religion in them.

That is all.

Happy Civing!

Mott1 said:
What is it about the "religion thing" that leaves you so uneasy?
Is it only because it is controversial to you?
Does not slavery make you uneasy? how about fascism? war? nukes?
These are all represented in the game, yet religion which lacks any identity in the game makes you so uneasy that you will not purchase it.
Controversy is a part of history as is religion and civ is based on history so I have no objection with religion in the game. In fact I strongly favor giving religion in the game their individual identity by adding modifiers and unique units.



Motion denied as far as I'm concerned. Religion is not at all controversial to me especially when religion in the game is uniform.




I propose that you design a mod that removes religion for the like-minded people.
A good idea for people who dislike controversy and bury their heads in the sand whenever faced with any type of controversy.



Religion adds realism, and more realism makes for a more addictive game.
Click to expand...
 
.Shane. said:
Its only "controversial" to the following subcultures: hardcore gaming nerds, ultra-Politically correct, religious extremists. The other 99.99% of us think its fine and harmless.
Click to expand...

Well said.:goodjob:
 
Actually, I find the "Religion is the opiate of the masses" pretty succinctly describes how Civ4 implemented it. Pretty much all it does in Civ4 (since you are complaining about something you don't know from experience) is it allows you to properly use a few Civics, build religious buildings (just like in previous Civs) and gives you reasons to like or hate another Civ (and vice versa).

The main people I've seen complain about it are those who want it to be a controversial implementation that would tick off various people (by giving sterotypical/racists bonuses and penalties to various religious groups) or hard-core atheists who refuse to acknowledge the importance of religion as a civilizing (and destroying) force.
 
warpstorm said:
Actually, I find the "Religion is the opiate of the masses" pretty succinctly describes how Civ4 implemented it. Pretty much all it does in Civ4 (since you are complaining about something you don't know from experience) is allows you to properly use a few Civics, build religious buildings (just like in previous Civs) and reasons to like or hate another Civ.

The main people I've seen complain about it are those who want it to be a controversial implementation that would tick of various people (by giving sterotypical/racists bonuses and penalties to various religious groups) or hard-core atheists who refuse to acknowledge the importance of religion as a civilizing (and destroying) force.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I think. Religious people don't like Civ4 because it has religions, so these guys may found some religion that they don't like.

I don't follow any religion and I don't care about those religions signs. These signs are just an amount of pixels made for entertainment, nothing more than it.
 
civ2gamer said:
I propose to Firaxis one of two options:
1: A mod pack to remove all trace of organized religion in Civ 4.
2: Civ 4/5 with Civ1-3 style religion instead.
Click to expand...

I propose to you one of two options:
Option 1: Edit the XML files to remove religion. It's very easy.
Option 2: Download a mod that has removed religion. For example there is one mod that replaces all religions with fast-food chains. Fun stuff.

Roger Bacon
 
civ2gamer said:
I much preferred how religion was approached in Civ 1-3. I haven't purchased, or even wanted to play, Civ 4 because the whole religion thing leaves me uneasy.
(I have purchased and loved Civ2MGE, Civ2TOT, Civ3 Complete).

I move that we have a return to religion free Civ. There is too much controversy in Civ 4.

The line below sums up Civ1-3 style religion.
"Religion is... the opium of the people." - Karl Marx: Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right

I propose to Firaxis one of two options:
1: A mod pack to remove all trace of organized religion in Civ 4.
2: Civ 4/5 with Civ1-3 style religion instead.

*****
I'm not trying to start a holy war with this thread. I just feel as many fellow 'Civers' this religion thing is too controversial for a fun [and adictive]game.

Civ2gamer - Civ2TOT rocks!
Click to expand...

No contreversy. Religion IS the opium of the people, and we can now use that to our advantage, as chief of the state, like leaders throughout history have. Hey, we now have a propaganda unit, can't get much better than that! (exept for a realy spy/activist/propagandist)
 
Religion in civ4 is not controversial enough. I suggest Firaxis give each religion unique building (not just same buildings with diff. names), unique strength/weakness, and the ability for the game to simulate religious conflict and conquest.
 
Less controversial, but with interesting tweaking, I once proposed adding an element of dietary restriction for various religions...e.g.

Judaism and Islam could farm or mine Pig-tiles, but wouldn't be able to build a pasture on that foodsource. To balance it out, they might get added commerce from Cow or Sheep alternatives. Similar dietary limits and trade-offs could be placed on Wineries (perhaps posing a Raisin alternative) and Crab resources.

The trick is in finding reasonable game balance, not becoming too micro-managing (as some commented), and distributing these tweaks across all the Religions in CivIV.
 
Religion was implemented well in Civ IV. Nothing really controversial about it in my humble opinion. I like the balance and vanilla approach. And to claim that religion was not important to the development of culture (especially early on in our history) and in diplomacy (causing both unity and division) would be difficult. That we, as leaders of our civilization, can use religion for our own gains... is pretty awesome. :D
 
Sohan said:
Religion was implemented well in Civ IV. Nothing really controversial about it in my humble opinion. I like the balance and vanilla approach. And to claim that religion was not important to the development of culture (especially early on in our history) and in diplomacy (causing both unity and division) would be difficult. That we, as leaders of our civilization, can use religion for our own gains... is pretty awesome. :D
Click to expand...

Indeed. (stupid min size for posts...)
 
Someone was talking to me the other day about how she was a fairly religious person and that she just hated when people blasphemed. The example she brought up was the Da Vinci Code. A 'fictitious' book, that is in the 'fiction' section of a bookstore, thus rendering it 'made up' and clearly defined as 'not true'.

I feel that this thread is a similar case: out of all the things in the whole world; war (religious or otherwise), injustice, false idols everywhere, usury (lending money and charging interest, which is explicity prohibited by the bible I might add and out economies seem fundamentally based on this), just bad stuff in general, out of all of this some people have a picked on a game or book or musician or somothing like that and targeted them so they don't have to deal with real issues that actually matter.

As for you civ2gamer, I understand that it is not necessarily you who is riled at this, you're merely making a suggestion to quell some annoyed people. That's cool dude. I'd just let people who're annoyed be annoyed at it. They'll only find something else equally pointless to be annoyed at. Don't bother with them and just ignore it, or better still, tell them to chill out and enjoy the game for what it is.

As for whether it actually is controversial, I think everyone else here has established that it is not at all. Personally I think many believers would benefit greatly from the thought that we are all Atheists: there are many Gods in this world (blasphemy) and no-one believes in all of them, so it's just that some people believe in one of them instead of none of them. Not many people are true atheists though, and to be a true atheist is just as arrogant as being a die hard believer. Being so sure of something that cannot proved (if you could prove it it wouldn't be a 'faith' it would be a 'fact' and the whole point would be gone) that you're willing to vehemently argue, maybe fight, maybe even kill for is just so arrogant and self assured that it's not right.

Salvation comes from within, not without. Arrogance is also one of my many sins :) So ends the sermon. Sorry guys!
 
Octopus Rex said:
Someone was talking to me the other day about how she was a fairly religious person and that she just hated when people blasphemed. The example she brought up was the Da Vinci Code. A 'fictitious' book, that is in the 'fiction' section of a bookstore, thus rendering it 'made up' and clearly defined as 'not true'.

I feel that this thread is a similar case: out of all the things in the whole world; war (religious or otherwise), injustice, false idols everywhere, usury (lending money and charging interest, which is explicity prohibited by the bible I might add and out economies seem fundamentally based on this), just bad stuff in general, out of all of this some people have a picked on a game or book or musician or somothing like that and targeted them so they don't have to deal with real issues that actually matter.

As for you civ2gamer, I understand that it is not necessarily you who is riled at this, you're merely making a suggestion to quell some annoyed people. That's cool dude. I'd just let people who're annoyed be annoyed at it. They'll only find something else equally pointless to be annoyed at. Don't bother with them and just ignore it, or better still, tell them to chill out and enjoy the game for what it is.

As for whether it actually is controversial, I think everyone else here has established that it is not at all. Personally I think many believers would benefit greatly from the thought that we are all Atheists: there are many Gods in this world (blasphemy) and no-one believes in all of them, so it's just that some people believe in one of them instead of none of them. Not many people are true atheists though, and to be a true atheist is just as arrogant as being a die hard believer. Being so sure of something that cannot proved (if you could prove it it wouldn't be a 'faith' it would be a 'fact' and the whole point would be gone) that you're willing to vehemently argue, maybe fight, maybe even kill for is just so arrogant and self assured that it's not right.

Salvation comes from within, not without. Arrogance is also one of my many sins :) So ends the sermon. Sorry guys!
Click to expand...

Monothiests, Polytheists, Atheists, they are all wrong I tell ya! Apatheism is the way to go! Seriously, I don't give a rat's ass about wether god exists or not, we'll see once we die, we should focus on the living while we are among them.

However, religion IS the opium of the masses, and thefore cannot be ignored as it is a powerful tool to control your citizens.
 
yeah, good call dude. Life is for living.

But I thought that TV was now the opiate of the masses? Maybe you should be able research sitcoms in Civ4 to keep your citizens happy! Hah! But as soon as your neighbours researched a better one it made your citizens unnhappy (like emancipation). I guess then eventually it would lead to comupter games and then obviously you would rearch Civ4 and win. (or lose? all your citizens would play it instead of work). The mind wanders...
 
Octopus Rex said:
yeah, good call dude. Life is for living.

But I thought that TV was now the opiate of the masses? Maybe you should be able research sitcoms in Civ4 to keep your citizens happy! Hah! But as soon as your neighbours researched a better one it made your citizens unnhappy (like emancipation). I guess then eventually it would lead to comupter games and then obviously you would rearch Civ4 and win. (or lose? all your citizens would play it instead of work). The mind wanders...
Click to expand...

Yes, with all shield production transfered to hapiness, and unhappy citizens say "Let's go back to religion-free civ 2!" :mischief: . And I quoted Karl Marx on "Religion is the opium of the masses",
 
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