Questions about Judaism

civ2

civ2

Emperor
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
1,650
Hi!
Since I'm Jewish and somewhat learned (not a lot yet though):) I'd like to try answering serious questions about Judaism.
Everybody can ask but please state whether you are Jewish - it sometimes may change the depth or the course of my answer.
The reason for this thread is the growing ignorance of people concernng Judaism.
If you don't like this thread - just leave it behind.:D
Waiting for your questions.:D :D :D
(I don't promise a quick answer but I'll try to answer as quick as possible.)
 
Well this is something I asked on another thread but since you are marking yourself out as orthodox, I'll ask your opinion.

Does the text though shalt not kill/ murder literally translate as kill or murder and if so why do you think no one can agree on what it actually means, or are often guilty of layers of interpritation? I thought I'd start you off with a nice easy one;):) But feel free to take your time on this I can't find an answer from protestants/catholics and fundementalists, so I'll try the source :) I fear this might be a question for a congregation of Rabbis though, so I'm not expecting an in depth reply, quite apart from the fact that I'm not Jewish.

What's the group name for Rabbis, is it a disagreement of Rabbis, or a flock or?

Did you know it's a superfluidity of nuns, that always kind of amuse me, but looking at groups of them walking in films, I see what they mean:D
 
Do you take the Torah literally? Also, are there any major differences between the Torah and the Old Testament of the Bible?
 
sidhe
Did you edit your post???
I don't remember it's second half to be when I answered...:confused:
Make your questions clear please - I can't understand what you mean.

Truronian
Depends on what means literally.
There are many levels of information in Torah - including the simpliest "story".
I never read the so-called OT - and I won't.:)
But I think there some "useful" (for non-jews) changes made after the NT was written.
Simply to "adjust" one to another.:D
No offence meant.:D
 
civ2 said:
Why not???
If you mean one of the Ten Commandments - then it's obviously a literal meaning.
I can't see any objections???:confused:
Make your question more clear if I didn't answer.
(You don't have to be a Rabbi to answer such simple questions I think...:confused: )
Click to expand...

What is the direct translation is it "though shalt not kill" or "though shalt not murder?" I think you may be having some trouble in distinguishing the two but that is all important, kill means killing of any kind, murder means only the unlawful or unjustified killing of another is forbiden. Which means the death penalty is exempt from this law, it's used as a justification by Jews for an eye for an eye being apropriate punishment( not that you follow it any more anyway) And by right wing Conservatives and or fundementalists to support the US's death sentence. So as you can see the literal intepritation is very key. The majority of christian belief has it as kill, apparently though some don't.

I edit my posts alot, sorry.

In fact this is an edit as is the line above.:)
 
sidhe
Aha. Finally.;)
So you ask whether the death penalty is approved.
1. The nowadays death penalty is not based on Torah in any way - it's based on (possibly) Roman law.
And I'm not a lawer.:)
2. The death penalty in the Torah is not based on "eye for eye" but on "don't kill".
And yes, it was justified but under lots of complicated conditions which led to a saying that a Jewish court that killed a person once per 70 (SEVENTY!!!) years was called bloody.
3. Concerning "eye for an eye". This means NOT the literal physical action - NO WAY!!! (Jews were never like barbarians or medieval europeans.:) )
This meant that if somebody was injured then his offender would have to heal him and then pay for his incapability to work etc.
Something more like a moral compensation nowadays.
Nobody was injured "for somebody else".
4. Death penalty is a very complicated thing which I don't have a straight opinion on.
 
I was looking for a literal translation of the Torah, is it kill or murder or does ancient Hebrew not have a distinction between the two, trust me I haven't found anyone except from a single source that says either way specifically. And unfortunately one source of a translstion is not what I'd call significant, particualrly as the person in question has personal and political reasons for believing that it is 'murder' rather than 'kill', so may not be entirely unbiased. Internet sources are also very biased it seems too and merely confuse the issue. I also have a view that says it's kill from the words 'lo tsirak' but that is also probably biased.

I merely gave the death penalty as an example, I can give you a few more exemptions if you want, but this is the essence of distinction one word: Kill or murder; the reason it's probably hard to find an answer because it has such a huge impact on law and on society.

It seems such a simple question on the surface is it not. How do the words of the Torah translate into English latin or whatever exactly?
 
Sidhe
Might be the answer:
http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?ACTION=displaypage&BOOK=2&CHAPTER=20

And if by any chance you understand russian:
http://chassidus.ru/library/tora_inline/shmoys/yisroy.htm

I'll try to translate:
не убивай Ценность человеческой жизни бесконечна. Этот постулат основывается на том, что признается Торой непреложным фактом: человек создан по образу и подобию Творца. Только Всевышний дает жизнь, и лишь Он один имеет право забрать ее. Преднамеренное убийство еврея является абсолютным запретом (речь не идет о тех случаях, когда исполняется приговор Санhедрина - Верховного Суда, или об убийстве того, кто покушается на жизнь другого человека или прилюдно оскверняет имя Всевышнего). Убийство нееврея, не соблюдающего возложенные на него Торой обязанности (семь заповедей, обязательных для "сынов Ноаха"), без суда и следствия также строжайше запрещено Торой, но не наказывается смертной казнью. Преступлением считается убийство любого человека, независимо от возраста и пола. Во многих государственных системах древнего мира убийство детей считалось обыденным делом: детей убивали, либо принося в жертву, либо производя селекцию для обеспечения здоровья нации. Римский историк Тацит замечает с надменной усмешкой патриция: "У евреев убийство ребенка считается тягчайшим преступлением".
Тора содержит многочисленные правила, основываясь на которых, судьи имеют возможность четко отличить преднамеренное убийство от убийства, совершенного при оправдывающих обстоятельствах, например, совершенного во время работы в результате недосмотра владельца инструмента и т. п. За небрежность человек также несет наказание, но не подлежит смертной казни. К оправдывающим обстоятельствам относится также состояние аффекта, вызванное либо гибелью родственика по вине другого человека, либо бесстыдным и неприкрытым святотатством. Подробно разработанный закон, с одной стороны, спасает человека, случайно убившего другого, от кровной мести, а с другой, не оставляет никакой надежды убившему преднамеренно избежать наказания, запрещая суду заменять смертную казнь наложением штрафа или выкупом. В рамках данной заповеди под убийством понимается такое преднамеренно совершенное человеком действие, которое приводит к смерти другого. Однако в дальнейшем, в частности, в книге Ваикра, понятие убийства расширяется и описывается целый класс безнравственных поступков, которые приравниваются к убийству, и Тора предупреждает человека, что многие совершаемые им действия, представляющиеся ему незначительной провинностью, рассматриваются Всевышним как убийство. Совершивший подобное действие должен знать, что оно не останется безнаказанным, и если он не раскается, Небесный Суд создаст на его жизненном пути обстоятельства, которые приведут к преждевременной насильственной смерти. Примерами таких поступков являются отказ оказать помощь всеми доступными средствами гибнущему еврею, объявление больному, что положение его безнадежно и что он вскоре умрет, прилюдное оскорбление, от которого оскорбленному становится плохо и лицо его белеет. Относительно запрета самоубийства см. комм. к Брейшит, 9:5. (Сончино)
Click to expand...
TRANSLATION (main points):
Murder is meant and there are given exceptions:
1. Death penalty by Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) for sins punishable with it.
2. Self-defense or attempt to save somebody from a murderer.
Also there is no significant distinction whether the victim was a jew or not - nobody is to be murdered.
Any action causing death indirectly isn't punished by death but is counted as a murder.
A murderer that killed inadvertly (unintentionally) was to run away to a "refuge city" and stay there for a long time.
This was a kind of a punishment but also a possibility for him to better his ways.
One more tihing - if a murderer wasn't sentensed due to lack of proof (but was guilty) he was then liable to a death by High.
Meaning - you can't bribe God.:D
(Something like that - I tried my best to translate the key points.)
 
Sidhe said:
I was looking for a literal translation of the Torah, is it kill or murder or does ancient Hebrew not have a distinction between the two, trust me I haven't found anyone except from a single source that says either way specifically. And unfortunately one source of a translstion is not what I'd call significant, particualrly as the person in question has personal and political reasons for believing that it is 'murder' rather than 'kill', so may not be entirely unbiased. Internet sources are also very biased it seems too and merely confuse the issue. I also have a view that says it's kill from the words 'lo tsirak' but that is also probably biased.

I merely gave the death penalty as an example, I can give you a few more exemptions if you want, but this is the essence of distinction one word: Kill or murder; the reason it's probably hard to find an answer because it has such a huge impact on law and on society.

It seems such a simple question on the surface is it not. How do the words of the Torah translate into English latin or whatever exactly?
Click to expand...

well,
A - im a jew. living in israel. fully fluent in hebrew and english
B - im a practicing aetheist
C - i have some knowledge of the Torah, the New Testament, some buddhist writing, etc (due to my interest in religions)

MY view is that the commandment translates as Thou shall not MURDER
i believe it means the generic - dont be bad, killing people for fun or whatever.

THERE are however LOTS of exemptions to this.
a favorite of mine is "do onto them before they do it onto you" (translation of spirit of verse)
also, IIRC, joshua went around clearing the lands of nonjews while establishing the hold of jews in the holy-land.
jewdaism is a peaceloving religion, that sanctifies life, and FORBIDS TAKING ANY LIFE (human. food is still food :D ) UNLESS you are threatened wih death yourself.
IN ORDER to save lives you may, and SHOULD take life.
self-defense is NOT MURDER and as such doesnot violate said commandment.
 
Civ2 - why translate the greek version?
AFAIK the torah was written in hebrew, not greek, though i agree that the greek translation was the basis for all (ok, MOST) of the later ones.
which led to many mistranslations and interpertations which led to some mighty weirds meanings within he text, which i believe have not been in the original.
that ofcourse was also done within the original hebrew (as the final vversion is believed to have been written by many authors)
 
I sell some home appliances witch have a "Sabbath mode" in the options menu.

What is it in the Sabbath that you need Home appliances with a Sabbath mode?
 
soul_warrior said:
well,
A - im a jew. living in israel. fully fluent in hebrew and english
B - im a practicing aetheist
C - i have some knowledge of the Torah, the New Testament, some buddhist writing, etc (due to my interest in religions)

MY view is that the commandment translates as Thou shall not MURDER
i believe it means the generic - dont be bad, killing people for fun or whatever.

THERE are however LOTS of exemptions to this.
a favorite of mine is "do onto them before they do it onto you" (translation of spirit of verse)
also, IIRC, joshua went around clearing the lands of nonjews while establishing the hold of jews in the holy-land.
jewdaism is a peaceloving religion, that sanctifies life, and FORBIDS TAKING ANY LIFE (human. food is still food :D ) UNLESS you are threatened wih death yourself.
IN ORDER to save lives you may, and SHOULD take life.
self-defense is NOT MURDER and as such doesnot violate said commandment.
Click to expand...


You too, Brut?????
Why didn't you tell me earlier? I was playing with you in SG!! :badcomp: ;)

Nice to see another fellow countryman! :goodjob:
 
civ2 said:
soul_warrior
Shalom!
Ben kama ata?
Ani ben shtem-esre.

I wouldn't call your English "fluent" (I'm joking.:) You simply write with some mistakes - in a big hurry? )
I liked your saying "food is still food".:lol:

La kol yehudi yesh neshama elokit.
Bevakasha tachshov al ze.:D
Click to expand...
:wavey:
im 34,
prepare well, you'll soon offically be a man :D

i am in quite a hurry, punching in the answers while at work.

if it seems that i have no respect to god, or ANY believer, none was meant.
i have equal respect to all religions, just not any in the religious institutions.
i believe in MY right to do what i want without others forcing me.

i also believe we all (jew, christian or philistine ;)) have a divine soul (hence my nick)

i also agree that my knowledge is largly superficial, having had little formal religious schooling (notice im not using indoctrination ;))

i would love to read a concise review of teh 10 commandments current (and earlier) interpetations.
 
Raisin Bran said:
I sell some home appliances witch have a "Sabbath mode" in the options menu.

What is it in the Sabbath that you need Home appliances with a Sabbath mode?
Click to expand...
it is not allowed to WORK on a sabbath.
the orthodox take it to mean, among other stuff, "though shall not light a fire"
which means no cooking.
that in turn ends up as a need for a constant slowburning cookeryy device, or something taht will activate itself on a timer.
hence Sabbath Mode
 
civ2 said:
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Hmmm... What do you mean by Greek version?
I simply used the first English text I found on Internet.
I myself use Russian one (and Hebrew of course).
Click to expand...
yeah.
thought you used (in the quotes) the greek version.
cant say i can distinguish between russian and greek (its all chinese to me)
 
Oh,
and Leha?

good to see you got your capital L :D (long over due, but hey, atleast i got there)

and NO. im 34. Civ2 is 12.
which is VERY curious.
a 12 year old playing Civ2?
I can barely remember it, and im a LOOOONG time civver.
 
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