Suggestion: Unique Victory Conditions / Achivements

Would RoC be more fun if each Civ had a reason to pursue their historical greatness?

  • No. Playing for history is its own reward. Let people choose to recreate history, if they wish.

    Votes: 8 9.1%

  • Yes. We should use SOME kind of reward to encourage each Civ to pursue its historical greatness.

    Votes: 55 62.5%

  • Yes. We should use victory as a reward to encourage each Civ to pursue its historical greatness.

    Votes: 13 14.8%

  • Actually, each Civ should be uniquely powerful, so their historical greatness is nearly inevitable.

    Votes: 10 11.4%

  • Don't care, either way.

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Total voters
    88
D

dh_epic

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When you take a look at history, there's lots of behaviors that wouldn't really make sense by this game and this mod's standards. One perfect example / problem is that someone playing as England would not find it profitable to colonize America, because these cities would inevitably flip to American control. Why would you do something that would be wasteful, let alone hurt your chances at victory?

My idea is simple. Create a unique set of historical victory conditions for each Civilization. For Britain, Rome, and Mongolia, the victory conditions practically write themselves. For other Civilizations, like the Aztecs and Mali, you could still tie the challenges much more to buildings, culture, and economics.

This could just as easily NOT be a victory condition, but unlock some kind of bonus for your Civilization. The idea is to dangle some kind of incentive to make the pursuit of history into a profitable endeavor.

Thoughts?
Amendments?
Complaints?
 
Agreed, well, I can't think of anything for Mesopotamia, but can you elaborate more on the subject dh_epic?

Do you mean making the Aztecs gain bonus by attacking the Spaniards?
 
This is a very interesting idea, and I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. The biggest obstacle is that it could be very difficult to come up with ideas for and then actually code.

I think I prefer the idea of going with bonuses rather than outright victory.
 
For the Aztecs, it might not be about attacking the Spaniards but what you are able to accomplish before the Spaniards show up on your shores. Building Chichen Itza, or perhaps reaching a certain technology, or having Sacrificial Altars built in 6 cities... builder type victories. I'm sure we could brainstorm.

Mali might be a better example. Mansa Musa made a pilgrimmage to Mecca. Mali controlled half the world's gold and salt supplies. Timbuktu was a legendary city with huge amounts of culture. There's lots to work with.
 
Gunner said:
This is a very interesting idea, and I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. The biggest obstacle is that it could be very difficult to come up with ideas for and then actually code.

I think I prefer the idea of going with bonuses rather than outright victory.
Click to expand...
I guess it could be historical, somewhat like the Klondikes, or the pursue of Oil.

It would also work if we made civs like spain gain bonuses for every time a city found in the new world is built. That wouldn't be so hard to code.
 
dh_epic said:
For the Aztecs, it might not be about attacking the Spaniards but what you are able to accomplish before the Spaniards show up on your shores. Building Chichen Itza, or perhaps reaching a certain technology, or having Sacrificial Altars built in 6 cities...
Click to expand...
Aha! brings us back to the wonders query, making the Egyptians build the Pyramids before 1'000 BCE gives them a bonus. Same goes to other civs that built wonders.
 
I think it certainly shouldn't be a route to victory but should offer some kind of bonus.

Maybe having multiple small ones would be better each with unique and relevant rewards. I can't really think of examples at this moment though.

The only drawback I can see is whether the AI would be able to be made to actively pursue their goals.
 
dh_epic said:
When you take a look at history, there's lots of behaviors that wouldn't really make sense by this game and this mod's standards. One perfect example / problem is that someone playing as England would not find it profitable to colonize America, because these cities would inevitably flip to American control. Why would you do something that would be wasteful, let alone hurt your chances at victory?
Click to expand...

England could try to achieve a domination victory before America spawns :crazyeye: . But your idea sounds interesting.
 
I'm not crazy about the idea of unique victory conditions (the mod should be designed so it makes sense in a realistic way for every civ to do what it really did). I think we should explore the direction of some almost-realistic special effect for civs that complete their challenge, like Rome completing its empire resulting in a very strong Roman culture that spreads across Europe.
I haven't the time to really brainstorm right now but I will another time.
 
it would be nice if the rewards fits history... and mixes with unique powers in some ways (what ways??)..

for example: if Arabs conquests his past lands then they can have a religious bonus (convoke a jihad for example!!)
England/Spain/France: if they link old world with america (stable colony) they could have a big trade bonus

it would be very hard find all causes (and consequences) that bring a nation do what they really did ^^

i would love some kind of competition for resources (oil gold), lands (discovery age)...
 
I like this idea. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with some goals for every Civ, for the great Empires the world as seen, the goal could be to come close to achieving the size of said empire. For some other Civs, the construction of certain wonders before a certain period. The founding of a religion by a certain time. It would give more incentive to colonize quickly as England, to expand so fast as Rome, to go straight for mathematics as China. It would definitely make things more interesting, so long as the AI makes a go at achieving these goals too.
 
I agree, Civilization feels somewhat stagnant without middle goals. I often get bored mid-game because I have no incentive to go on...
 
Oh, I forgot to mention that while I voted for the Yes, bonus one, i could have voted for any of them and it would have been what I thought. I know it doesn't make any sense, but I like all of those options, I just like the bonus one the most.
 
This would also make small things like the Hanseatic League possible, I guess. When I play Germany I usually see to it that mostly Great Scientists and Great Engeneers are born, because they are most useful to keep up technologically. But when you look at it there are at least 5 German Great Artists in this game: Goethe, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and Kafka. I'd really apreciate some incentive to create Great Artists (apart from their gold and culture bonus).
 
this is a potentially good idea, because it would make a game as Aztecs or Incans no longer hopeless.

The implementation is not easy, because it would require deactivating completely the victory system and replacing with a point-based victory.

Otherwise, the point-based victory can be added in addition to the rest...would be much easier.

But the real problem is - will the AI know how to pursue their goals?
(I don't mean that the answer is no - depending on what the goal is, it can be easily yes, and any AI can be dangerous - for instance, imagine that India wins the game if it founds 4 religions: AI already usually founds 2 of them).

Suggestions are welcome - a brainstorm on civ-specific goals as in the Roman historical challenge, or like in the RoC Challenges would be very useful to realize if this can be done or not.
 
Maybe it shouldn't be so deterministic as: If you do this, this and get one of those, you win. It would be better (and much more complicated and harder to code, I'm sure) for every Civ to have a bunch of goals to achieve, each worth a certain amount of points, and the first one to achieve all of said goals or reach a certain number of points wins. For example, let's say 1000 points win the game. If you're India, founding Hinduism and Buddhism gives you 50 points each. Although those are probably not good numbers. As Egypt, building the Pyramids before a certain date gives you 75 points. As Spain, killing the Incans/Aztecs gices you 100 points. I don't know whether this would necessarily be the best way to approach the matter, but I would like to see this goal-based thing implemented somehow.
 
There's a lot of good ideas in here. I'm flexible about how it actually works... the important thing is we give people something to play towards.

Making it achievable by the AI is definitely important. That's why it's probably good to keep the goals as conventional as possible: build X, conquer X, be first to discover X.
 
A goal for Germany and Russia (as well as Scandinavia if implemtented) could be controling the baltic sea, resulting in improving the horbors (+10% gold from harbors) or something like that. It'd make the region more lucrative.

Actually, I kind of like these Risk-like goals...

I guess the code wouldn't be all that terrible, you'd have to run a check for cities withing certain coordinates, but it wouldn't have to be run every single turn, only when ever a city is founded. In the above example of the baltic sea it could just add a "flag", change a boolean variable from false to true if control is established (and change it back if it is lost, perhaps?).
 
I have no idea how one would program any of this, but I could offer up some suggestions as to goals for the Civs. It really shouldn't be too tough, we'll just all brainstorm some ideas and pick the best ones. For some it'll be no brainers (like Rome). Others might be a bit more complicated, but again, we shouldn't have much trouble deciding on the goals, just on how this feature will be implemented.
 
I think another thing might be a change to the scoring system so that points are permanently acquired, and thus losing your empire is not a complete disaster. That is, the Romans score points according to how big they get before the Euros show up. After the Euros appear, the Romans are supposed to be irrelevant, so everything else is a bonus.
 
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