Don't mine me! - The hammerless challenge

Don't mine me! - The hammerless challenge

Can commerce beat production ?

Background
The idea for this game started in another SG (Independence day) starting soon, where I had the idea to have a commerce only strategy. In Independence day we play on a Terra map, but once we have discovered Astronomy we pack up our units and move to the other side of the world, gifting our cities to others and starting over in the new world. So any improvements built in the old world would be lost anyway. We plan to build a small settlement with cities focused on food and commerce to optimize science and be given away later. I have the feeling commerce focus can be very powerful.

The power of commerce over production
The basic rule is we will not build mines and you should not work any tiles with two or more hammers. Commerce and Food should always have priority over production. Production deficits can be made up through whipping, drafting or buying.

Many higher level games can be won by outproducing the AI. We will show the power of commerce and that games can be won with loads of commerce instead of hammers.

1. Commerce and Food are always priority.
This game will be won by science and cash, so commerce and food always have priority over hammers. If the choice is between a coastal tile with 2F&3C and hill forest with 3H, for your first Workboat, go for coast. Forests should be chopped to boost production and should not be worked if there are commerce tiles available. Exception is that resource tiles which can always be worked.

2. No mines, workshop, lumbermills or watermills.
Exception is that we are allowed to mine resources. Captured cities should have these improvements replaced.

3. No production improvement buildings
That means no factories, no power plants, no iron works, etc. Exception to this rule is forges as it provides happiness and is needed to build the colossus and other wonders. Colossus is commerce focused and a likely objective. Note that forges have a low priority.

4. No production focused Civics
No Police State or Organized Religion. Slavery and Universal suffrage are allowed and logical goals. The pyramids could help a lot in enabling Universal Suffrage early.

5. Leader choice
For Warlords we'll play with Hannibal - Carthage
Financial & Charismatic - Fishing & Mining - Numidian Cavalry - Cothon (replaces Harbor)

6. Victory conditions
All conditions allowed.

7. World Setup
Epic Speed, Monarch. Continents world, standard settings.

Roster
1. Remconius
2. efendi (WL)
3. karr1255 (WL)
4. Asperger (WL)
5. Chrono285 (WL)
6. negyvenketto (Vanilla)
Open
Open

Please signup if you are interested.




Thanks to Cabert, Methos and Caesius for the comments.

I like to play "CIV4 - Warlords" because of the new features. The leader traits are different you now....

We can consider warlords based on people that want to join...

If we do play warlords, the Carthaginians seem to be a likely candidate. They are Financial, Charismatic (more happiness) and have a unique harbor giving an extra trade route, to generate more commerce.

lurker comments (can't join, though it seems fun) :
- horses don't give food. They improve production!
- you could add uranium mines to commerce happy tiles
- you should pursue pyramids to allow US as soon as possible (could be a variant rule?)
- forges are happiness buildings as well, and the production bonus applies to whipping/rush$ too

I would like to be in, please play it with vanilla civ4 (I don't have warlords )
This could be mine first SG. Usually I play noble or prince, I hope won't cause great damage to the game on monarch

I would like to join if we would play warlords.

Havent decided yet. I Would like to play warlords, lets see who else wants to join.

I would like to join if we would play warlords.

Sounds fun, I'd like to join. It'd be my first SG, but I just got my first emperor win. I don't have warlords, but I'd like to buy it soon.

lurker's comment: We did something a little similar in our CTIV-2: The Money Game. We emphasized the financial side of the game.

It's not quite the same, but was a lot of fun. I think you guys will really enjoy this variant. I know we enjoyed ours! Good luck!

cabert said:

lurker comments (can't join, though it seems fun) :
- horses don't give food. They improve production!
- you could add uranium mines to commerce happy tiles
- you should pursue pyramids to allow US as soon as possible (could be a variant rule?)
- forges are happiness buildings as well, and the production bonus applies to whipping/rush$ too

Click to expand...

I'd say that if you get Pyramids you'd want to go for Representation for the extra science.

Caesius said:

I'd say that if you get Pyramids you'd want to go for Representation for the extra science.

Click to expand...

I disagree. A specialist such as a merchant or scientist would be giving a potential 6 beakers per turn with Representation. A citizen working a town under Suffrage would be getting 5 (since the leader's financial) potential beakers plus 1 hammer (plus whatever the base tile gives) and you can buy improvements.

Played a test game last night and I am going to ease up on the requirements a little by changing 2 rules.

Rule 1 is now commerce has priority over hammers, instead of only work tiles with 1 hammer. That means you can work plains forests if there are no more commerce tiles around.

Rule 2 Exception is now that resources can always be worked. AI does change your workers to those tiles anyway when city grows so it would be difficult to enforce. This will then be the only way to get some production going.


Also I would like to play this game in Warlords.

I made up my mind, we'll play this game as Hannibal of the carthaginians. That means Warlords!

The only person signing up that indicated not to have Warlords is Negyvenketto. Any chance you can get your hands on a copy?

If not we have 5 people and a 1-2 open slots.

I'll probably kick this game off in a few days.

Let's get this show on the road. I rolled a game and look what came up.
This was my first try!







Roster
1. Remconius <- Up next
2. efendi <- On Deck
3. karr1255
4. Asperger
5. Chrono285
6. Open

24 hours got it, 48 hours to play. I suggest I will play 40 turns to start, next person 30, third person 20. We will then play 10 turns each.

Variant rules
1. Commerce and Food always have priority
2. No mines, workshop, lumbermills or watermills
3. No production improvement buildings (except forge)
4. No production focused Civics

Here is the save:
View attachment 139190

Let's here some plans and options!

This will be cottage heaven I reckon!! We could settle on the plains hill SW as we can't mine it anyway.

Now let's hope there is some coast nearby to use our improved harour (Cothon).

I'd settle on the spot since I have a feeling there is or will be a ressource to the north or east. Plus I think this way we get the most flood plains, then again otherwise you could split them up for 2 cities and the hill would give us an extra hammer. Your decision.

As for techs I would start with hunting(we are allowed to use the ivory right?) and go towards pottery obviously. Also settling some coastal cities seems good, financial and the UB is really a good one. Of course depends on the neighbors and how many open borders we get.

The leader really fits this game since charismatic will be great for whipping which we will do a lot of. And I also agree with the number of turns played each round.

Wow! Great start. We'll be:

in no time!

I could move E, NW with the settler to check out what is there. If nothing special I settle on the starting spot in turn 2 or on the hill in turn 3.

Research-wise I am thinking Wheel > Pottery > Hunting. Starting a worker immediately so it can start spamming cottages asap.

This is really a very unhealthy place to settle, if we settle on the plainshill 1SW than we get -4 from floodplains...I prefer settle 1 NW, or on plainshill 1N.