A discusion on Immortal game

Instead of starting a new succession game, I decided to play an immortal game and post it here so everyone can have a look at it and give their own suggestions, ideas, and observations. Hopefully everybody can learn something new.
This first turn actually runs all the way trough first 4 millennia. As game progresses I will make smaller turns, more like 20, 30 or so. The breakpoint will be a significant decision, instead of set in stone number of turns, or time periods.

Ill spare you the intro story i.e. And so the Sun shines once again at … bla bla bla…




So here is the roll. Actually, this is a second roll. First time I got two gold hills so I regenerated map. I felt we need to give AI some advantage after all.

4000 BC
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Settle in place. Nothing special but not bad either.
In fact, this is the start I like the most – production is vital early in the game, more so than anything else.
Start worker and agriculture.



3920 BC
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We get agriculture from hut. Since we have no animals running around, start B. Working.



3880 BC
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Next turn we meet H.C. He says we choose wisely by not putting his head on a pole. Patience, soon enough I hope. We see cows and very valuable elephants we should grab before him.

3800 BC
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Borders expand, we get 42 (a peculiar number) from other hut.
Incas capital is very close to us. hmmm



3720 BC
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We meet Mansa who’s naturally pleased with us at this point.



3560 BC
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Buddhism FIDAL. Meet some wild animals.



3520 BC
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Well not so distant land after all, HC converts to Budhism, we own lions.

3400 BC
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Worker done, sent to work rice, start warrior.



3320 BC
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Meet Mao.



3240 BC
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No bronze in sight, start AH.



3160 BC
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Buddhism FIDAL, worker starts mining a hill.

3120 BC
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Delhi grows to size 2, start settler.



2960 BC
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Lots of animals around, but we survive them.



2760 BC
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AH in, at least we have horses around. So does H.C. Start wheel.



2600 BC
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Meet Washington north of our border, Judaism FIDAL.



Start chopping forest, we want to place a city there.



2560 BC
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H.C. grabs that juicy site with elephants.

2520 BC
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Settler is done. This is our part of the world. Best position for Bombay definitely spot where we just cut the forest, so we grab clam and fish and start generating scientists as soon as we get writing and library. We also don’t need a unit to escort that settler.

So current plan is straightforward:

Settle site A.
Start fishing ->Writing->Alphabet.
Build some chariots to defend and explore.
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2480 BC
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Settle Bombay, start monument. Warrior done in capital, start Barracks. Bombay will work horses for the time being, since capital can work hills. Both are same shield wise.


2440 BC
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Powers of wheel discovered, start fishing.




2360 BC
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Kill barb warrior, start building chariot. Start connecting resources, rice, hills, etc.




2240 BC
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Fishing discovered, start writing.




2200 BC
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A quick glance at our capital city.





Continuing with barracks before getting that chariot out. At size 4 Delhi will support all 3 hills and rice for a total of 10 shields and food surplus. Horses will help Bombay build library, until we assign scientists. Like I said, production is the most important thing early on, much more important than commerce. Needed research will be fueled by scientists, which is more than enough at this stage of a game. No cottages yet (and for quite a while after). Not that we passionately don’t want to, it’s just that we don’t need them, and is in fact detrimental to this strategy. Building cottages early on (like in capital) is usually not a good idea, unless in some very specific situations (i.e. all you have are food plains and 0 production). Earliest game period is when you work your resources, not cottages.

2160 BC
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Obelisk done, start workboat.





2120 BC
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Our warrior finally healed send him to explore west we know nothing about.

2000 BC
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Delhi’s borders expand, there are two archers in Tiwanaku.



1960 BC
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Washington converts to Buddhism.

1880 BC
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Delhi



…. and Bombay.



Start warrior in capital for Bombay. Start another workboat in Bombay. Sending chariot from Delhi next to H.C.



1800 BC
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Writing mastered, open borders with America and Inca land. Our brave warrior owned with multiple arrows.

1760 BC
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Our chariot discovers only two archers and quencha in Incas capital. I don’t see metal around. You know what that means right?
If no metal around, AI has a tendency to protect his cities with only few archers until he gets longbows. This, we must take advantage of, even if it means sacrificing a ridiculous amounts of chariots.




1720 BC
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Our capital skips library for now we need lots of chariots. HC has some troubles with barbs it seems. Juicy land that’s for sure.



1600 BC
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Start library in Bombay.




1400 BC
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Buddha finally arrives in Delhi, switch immediately to Buddhism without penalty.




1000 BC
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Somebody got owned by barbs pretty bad. I mentioned this before, playing with barbs turned on is actually easier for humans since we handle them fairly easy.



975 BC
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Library done in Bombay, assign two scientists for total of 12 gpp. This is where philosophical shines.

8 chariots standing by. We are going directly for capital, since it has horses and is center of Buddhism.



950 BC
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And so our first war begins. Axe barb showing up, but since this is warlord our chariots will eat them for breakfast. Chariot rush is actually very good strategy early if AI has no metal. But even if he does have metal, sometimes he has no spears in his border cities. If I spot that AI just connected his metal mine, ill declare with only one chariot and raze the mine, only to eventually conquer him with chariots (that is if I have horses to begin with; but rarely you don’t have both horses and bronze close to you, in which case its either beeline to Iron working or catapults). Chariots are not Immortals, but even tedious war with chariots vs. archers will pay off eventually and is better than letting AI connect his metal mine. Even though it might seem we got somewhat lucky here, this is not the beginning nor the end of this game.
-1 modifier with Mao since we declared on his buddy.

925 BC
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We lost lots of chariots but captured Cuzco. Kill barb axe.




875 BC
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Buddhism spread to Washington. Buddhism is the only active religion on this continent it seems that Gandhi is in control of it.



825 BC
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Alphabet in, quick glance over what other civs have reveals we are way behind technologically, which is expected, but we still have monopole over Alphabet. I decide to go for polytheism -> literature -> GL. It’s a gambit well worth of a try since we have a solid production in our capital. Washington in only one without mysticism so we trade him that for hunting. Mao has poly.



800 BC
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A noticeable change in a score of all civs forces me to open tech advisor again, and damn they all have alphabet!! Rofl. All except Mao. Which forces me to give him Alphabet for Iron Working and archery. At least we have Iron in our capitals fat cross. Open borders with Mao.
This is where noticeable difference between Emperor and Immortal level exists. In 800 BC all civs know Alphabet. It is very easy to fall behind technologically, and that’s why it is always better to start capturing AI cities rather than spamming your own. Even one extra city would hinder our tech research considerably. If you cant fight urge to over- expand, try OCC games for a while.





750 BC
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Cuzco after I whipped library.




We get our first GS in Bombay.




Capture Tiwanaku.







725 BC
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Mansa converts to Buddhism and we have complete domination of Buddhism on our continent. As much as this seems nice right now, it will be problem later on with all – modifiers from other civs on other continent(s) (i.e. you traded with our worst enemies etc), as I really plan to conquer the whole continent so all the civs around me are just temporary friends. Yeah, its exactly like in real life. Both Mao and Washington can attack me even if they are pleased with me and share same religion, so it doesn’t really matter that much. Still, not something you see often. I could definitely benefit from shrine here.




700 BC
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Get poly, start literature. Seems nobody has it, lets go for GL.

625 BC
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Ivory online, whip obelisk in Tiwanaku.



600 BC
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Capture Machu Picchu.



We get our first warlord.



HC down to one city but still doesn’t want to give Mathematics, which we get must before we chop virtually every pre chopped forest around Delhi.

500 BC
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We get literature. Nobody has it. I try to sue for peace + math again and H.C. agrees this time! If he didn’t do that I would be forced to pop Math with my scientist, which would actually pay off in the long run. I need to chop all that forest around Delhi, but I don’t want to do it for a double price. Thanks to my philosophical trait, wasting a scientist for math would not be such a big deal. Don’t get caught up in rules. It’s all situational.
A quick glance over our piece of land.
I choose to research drama. I want to pop philosophy with my scientist asap.



475 BC
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Give America poly for pottery.

450 BC
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Since HC shares our religion, he’s caution and gives us Meditation + Masonry for Alphabet. Ill want to capture that barb city before others do.



400 BC
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Cuzco builds our first sword. Attach warlord unit to it, so we can start H.E. in Delhi. Attaching warlord to chariot seems less attractive.
Start monastery so we can spread our religion even further.



375 BC
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Mansa demands literature, which of course is not happening at this point.

I give CR1,CR2,CR3, leadership promotions to my sword.

Bombay will generate another GS next turn.



We need to spread Buddhism there to benefit from Pacifism.


350 BC
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Whip library in Machu P.
Trade Meditation to Washington for Priesthood.




300 BC
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We get GL in 300 BC.




250 BC
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Drama in.




Pop philosophy and get Taoism in Bombay.






Trade Drama + Literature to Mansa for Currency and 50 gold.



Trade Drama to Washington for Monotheism + Sailing and 100 gold.



Switch to Pacifism at once without penalty. Our capital is generating some serious GS points now.



Research set to construction and we can get it in 7.








This is the end of 1st part. Comments and suggestions on how to proceed are welcome.
We are dead last in power except HC, but thats ok. Once we get elephants and catapults, I plan on going after either Washington or Mansa (probably Mansa since Washington is not research powerhouse anymore in Warlords). He has scary power graph however.
As you see, the biggest difference between this level and emperor is early research power of AI. If you can match that, you are doing good. Everything else is pretty much the same (almost) as in Empror. Dumb AI on emperor is still as dumb on immortal. Aggression is the key, if no metal around, nor horses for horse archers, b-linefor catapults and/or elephants. You will have something to fight with early. I managed to get both GL and Tao, which is not uncommon IF you can get it early, as in 300 BC early. AI is fast to grab them, so dont overexpand if you dont need to.

This is very enlightening. Thanks!

Why don't you consider creating a Medic III unit with your GG? From my experience, it's usually worth more than a combat warlord unit, which tends to die.

Good job on keeping up in tech so far. But have you thought about the new patch and the changes to the AI? Do you think you can still keep up in Immortal after that?

well, as much as id like that to be true i dont think theres going to be much differnce in a new patch, yeah city placement will be better, but commbat system and dumb ai will still be the same, well see, i cant say anything untill i play it.
medic is not a bad idea, but its more a luxury id consider if i were immperialistic

What did you do with the Taoist Missionary (I couldn't d/l all the screenshots)?

I'd probably build 2 temples in Delhi and hire 2 priests before doing anything else in Delhi. I figure if you get more scientists, great, if you get a prophet, also great. Do you have a plan for a shrine prophet?

Do you have a plan for the NE?

taoist will spread tao to Delhi, which will get two temples,
Bombay same story,
in order to assign priests.

Since im philosophical i never build HE early.
Ive been toying with Iron.W. + forge + factory + NE in my previous games, very powerfull, thats what ill probably do now, depends
German UB is very good for this

Yeah, Bombay's better for the priests.

You said "since we have no animals running around, start bronze working"

Could you explain this statement?

Since im philosophical i never build HE early.
Ive been toying with Iron.W. + forge + factory + NE in my previous games, very powerfull, thats what ill probably do now, depends

I don't understand this either. What does philosophical have to do with Heroic Epic? What does the National Epic have to do with those other things?

podraza said:

You said "since we have no animals running around, start bronze working"

Could you explain this statement?

Click to expand...

Nevermind, I get it. No cows or sheep. No AH.

I made a typo. We'r talking about National Epic not Heroic Epic.

When philosophical and when running Pacifism, National Epic is not very immportant, in fact its better without it since i always get GA from it somehow.

I sometimes like to build N.Epic in my high production city with Iron Works and generate GE's.

I don't mean to come off like an idiot, but I'll do that in order to squeeze maximum benefit out of this thread for me.

It seemed like you chose the techs to research in terms of which would give you the next immediate benefit. Agriculture first because you had rice to farm (and no other resources) . So priority 1 is working the resource tile.

BW next because there were no other resources, but there were hills.

When BW failed to show copper, you were then forced to go for AH to reveal horses as a second best option. If BW had shown copper, you would not have researched AH at this time.

By the time you finished AH, you had a second city and horse resource to connect, so next comes the wheel. Then fishing for the fish, writing for the library/specialist, and alphebet to trade techs.

Now you can trade techs, so I assume the strategy shifts here. To what? To whatever the AI values most highly for trade?

And how do you know what techs the various great people can lightbulb? Through experience? Is there a chart somewhere showing this?

edit - you already had mining. So you didn't research BH to take advantage of hills but rather to show copper and acquire slavery. You consider this a top priority?

Also, how did you raise that army? Did you have both cities producing Chariots and whipping in both too?

And why didn't you build the GL in Bombay? Won't that be your super science city? At this point, do you have something in mind as to how to specialize Delhi and Bombay? Or any of the newly captured cities?

(I apologize for the rapid fire questions, I want to get them in before you move on to the next set)

(there will be more then, too)

podraza said:

I don't mean to come off like an idiot, but I'll do that in order to squeeze maximum benefit out of this thread for me.

Click to expand...

lol, the only way to learn is to ask

It seemed like you chose the techs to research in terms of which would give you the next immediate benefit. Agriculture first because you had rice to farm (and no other resources) . So priority 1 is working the resource tile.

Click to expand...

Yes, work whatever you have to work.
Early grow by working high food resource is priority.
Let's say I had pigs but no other resources. I would go directly for AH. (Actually I would reconsider that. By discovering Agriculture, you get cheaper AH. If my capital doesn’t require farms at all to work other resources, I would probably go directly to AH, otherwise Agriculture-> AH). Also farming is more expensive than making pasture.

BW next because there were no other resources, but there were hills.

Click to expand...

I need my protection from barbs. Archery is the last option. Since I have mining already, and no animals (visible) to work, I prefer BW over AH.

When BW failed to show copper, you were then forced to go for AH to reveal horses as a second best option. If BW had shown copper, you would not have researched AH at this time.

Click to expand...

Actually, I would still research AH even if I had copper. Because you need either AH or pottery to for Writing. AH is definitely better since I don’t need cottages/granaries and AH might reveal good strategic position for my next city.

By the time you finished AH, you had a second city and horse resource to connect, so next comes the wheel. Then fishing for the fish, writing for the library/specialist, and alphabet to trade techs.

Click to expand...

Yes, you also need wheel for chariots.

Now you can trade techs, so I assume the strategy shifts here. To what? To whatever the AI values most highly for trade?

Click to expand...

It depends. Since it was relatively early I decided I had a decent chance to go for literature and GL. Same for drama and Philosophy. I decided not to risk by going priesthood, CoL, as drama was cheaper. Plus I know nobody has drama since I’m the only one with literature.

And how do you know what techs the various great people can lightbulb? Through experience? Is there a chart somewhere showing this?

Click to expand...

There’s a chart, i don’t have a link to it. You cant choose what to research, but you can influence it.
Since you wont be getting GS before math assuming you have all other low level techs, first it will choose to research mathematics. After you have mathematics, it will choose sailing, calendar, optics, something along those lines.
Unless, you have meditation + drama / CoL then it chooses philosophy.
Once you have Civil Service it chooses to research Paper->Education->Printing Press line, which is exactly what I intend to do here.

podraza said:

Also, how did you raise that army? Did you have both cities producing Chariots and whipping in both too?

Click to expand...

No whiping was needed

podraza said:

And why didn't you build the GL in Bombay? Won't that be your super science city? At this point, do you have something in mind as to how to specialize Delhi and Bombay? Or any of the newly captured cities?

(I apologize for the rapid fire questions, I want to get them in before you move on to the next set)

(there will be more then, too)

Click to expand...

i would never be able to build GL in bombay
and it will certainly not be a Super science city.

Delhi will obviously be my best production city once i get CS even more so.
Bombay will run as many specialists as it can (scientists, priests)

All new captured cities will be assigned at least scintists

As it seems i wont be ever building academys as well

Theres "edit" button you should consider before making another post

do you usually build your 2nd city so close to the capitol? doesnt it limit their growth later in the game? i usually try to find the optimal placement so that the overlapping tiles are minimal. this is 3 tiles up/down/left/right and 1 tile diagonal in any direction. should i ditch this idea for success at higher levels?