SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I notice that Julius also has a "We have enough on our hands" . That's a rather large force sitting in Cumae. 
Hopefully it's aimed elsewhere. I wonder if it's worth offering him Education to make up for denying him a tech earlier?
It's probably a good idea to return some military to Athens, especially since Toku's scouting out our lands. More generally it may be worth redistributing our military amongst our cities as well as upgrading/replacing some of the older units to keep our military power high enough to deter other civs.
Hopefully it's aimed elsewhere. I wonder if it's worth offering him Education to make up for denying him a tech earlier?It's probably a good idea to return some military to Athens, especially since Toku's scouting out our lands. More generally it may be worth redistributing our military amongst our cities as well as upgrading/replacing some of the older units to keep our military power high enough to deter other civs.
Looks good.
Sell education to Julius, don't see a reason not to. It is an old tech for us.
Coppertownski : Library -> knight
1) 1406 AD : just worker actions
IBT : Vicky demands we cancel deals with Monty, but I decline politely
2) 1412AD : zzz
IBT : nothing
3) 1418AD : zzz
IBT : Mansa offers us Nationalism and 50 gold for Scientific Method. After we learned physics my dear.
game crashes and reload from autosave
Huayna demands Liberlism, are you kidding ?
Lodestone City : Library -> knight
Beijing : Courthouse -> Forbidden Palace
4) 1424AD : not much to report
IBT : nothing
5) 1430AD : nothing
IBT : Hatty offers bananas for Ivory, I accept.
6) 1436AD : not much to do
IBT : we learn physics and get our scientist
we have two uranium sources on our homeland
7) 1442AD : use the scientist on electricity
Trade Liberalism to Julius for 140 gold
Trade Scientific Method to mansa for Nationalism and 100 gold
Trade Liberalism to Huayna for 190 gold
8) 1448AD : worker actions to mine the uranium sources
IBT : Frederick demands we cancel our deals with Monty, no thanks.
9) 1454AD : not much
IBT : IBT : Cyrus wants banking, ok you can have it
Izzy thinks she can do the same and wants Nationalism for free, no way
10) 1460AD : zzz
The Forbidden Palace will finish in the next set in Beijing. Apart from that not much is happening. Vicky and Mansa have Constitution and Julius is the only one having gunpowder. Vicky and Julius would not trade with us. They fear we are becoming too advanced. Mansa would give us all his gold and constitution for physics, but I think it is not worth it, yet.
Sell education to Julius, don't see a reason not to. It is an old tech for us.
Coppertownski : Library -> knight
1) 1406 AD : just worker actions
IBT : Vicky demands we cancel deals with Monty, but I decline politely
2) 1412AD : zzz
IBT : nothing
3) 1418AD : zzz
IBT : Mansa offers us Nationalism and 50 gold for Scientific Method. After we learned physics my dear.
game crashes and reload from autosave
Huayna demands Liberlism, are you kidding ?
Lodestone City : Library -> knight
Beijing : Courthouse -> Forbidden Palace
4) 1424AD : not much to report
IBT : nothing
5) 1430AD : nothing
IBT : Hatty offers bananas for Ivory, I accept.
6) 1436AD : not much to do
IBT : we learn physics and get our scientist
we have two uranium sources on our homeland
7) 1442AD : use the scientist on electricity
Trade Liberalism to Julius for 140 gold
Trade Scientific Method to mansa for Nationalism and 100 gold
Trade Liberalism to Huayna for 190 gold
8) 1448AD : worker actions to mine the uranium sources
IBT : Frederick demands we cancel our deals with Monty, no thanks.
9) 1454AD : not much
IBT : IBT : Cyrus wants banking, ok you can have it
Izzy thinks she can do the same and wants Nationalism for free, no way
10) 1460AD : zzz
The Forbidden Palace will finish in the next set in Beijing. Apart from that not much is happening. Vicky and Mansa have Constitution and Julius is the only one having gunpowder. Vicky and Julius would not trade with us. They fear we are becoming too advanced. Mansa would give us all his gold and constitution for physics, but I think it is not worth it, yet.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
@markh - Now I know what happens when a civ fanatic is deprived of a game. 
That's got to be the quickest I've seen a turnset played after the 'got it'.
Thanks for the roster reminder as well.
That's got to be the quickest I've seen a turnset played after the 'got it'.Thanks for the roster reminder as well.
as for the mid-game spoiler post...I suppose I could attempt to write it, but Simon and Sam both have much more literary flair than I do
I'm quite happy to write it, but if Sam wants to do it, I'm equally happy.
(Warning: As anyone who's read my GOTM writeups will probably know, if I write it, it'll likely be a humourous-ish report that emphasizes every piece of irony etc. I can find in our game). This post is probably as good as example as any of my report style: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193924 (5th post down, spoiler for WOTM03 which is now closed so OK to read) (And it serruptitiously mentions Geezers too!) )
@markh - Now I know what happens when a civ fanatic is deprived of a game.
Thanks for the roster reminder as well.
Well, had to go back 5 pages to find a roster. That took longer than playing the set itself.
And I used the time. I almost have my first win on emperor in the bag.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
You know what they say about volunteering don't you? Go to it.
I missed that reference the first time.
I am not where I can download the save so a quick question or two. Is Coppertownski close to producing its great person? Second- totally un-related do Knights upgrade to Cossacks? Not that we will need them but is it worth a discussion of getting to a position to crunch a recalcitrant voter?
You know what they say about volunteering don't you? Go to it.
Should've guessed.
OK gimme a couple of days to gather thoughts and re-read the team thread and I'll post something up here for approval.I missed that reference the first time.
It was very subtle
Had a look at the save, and it's mostly micromanaging stuff not worth discussing before I play . But one thing stands out to consult on: Caesar:
Well spotted Sam, about Julius probably preparing for war. I rather fear that looking at his relations, his most likely intended victim is us. He has 3 galleons in Cumae, and his force there includes 3 knights, 2 horse archers and 2 cats. He could declare and land by Lodestone City without warning, or by watching the Cumae units, we'd get one turn's warning if he landed by Coppertownski or St. Petersburg. He easily has enough troops in what looks like his invasion force to take any one of those cities.
I know this is going to set our science back a turn or two, but I'd therefore like to pay to upgrade one, maybe two, galleys to galleons (155 gold each) as soon as we can afford it, so they can transport troops across to those cities faster, and if necessary/appropriate attack Rome's vessels. I'll probably also switch St Petersburg to a military unit for one turn , so that if it becomes necessary we can poprush said unit without losing too much pop, but the 1 turn won't disrupt our infrastructure building too much if it turns out Julius is getting ready to attack someone else.
. But one thing stands out to consult on: Caesar:Well spotted Sam, about Julius probably preparing for war. I rather fear that looking at his relations, his most likely intended victim is us. He has 3 galleons in Cumae, and his force there includes 3 knights, 2 horse archers and 2 cats. He could declare and land by Lodestone City without warning, or by watching the Cumae units, we'd get one turn's warning if he landed by Coppertownski or St. Petersburg. He easily has enough troops in what looks like his invasion force to take any one of those cities.
I know this is going to set our science back a turn or two, but I'd therefore like to pay to upgrade one, maybe two, galleys to galleons (155 gold each) as soon as we can afford it, so they can transport troops across to those cities faster, and if necessary/appropriate attack Rome's vessels. I'll probably also switch St Petersburg to a military unit for one turn , so that if it becomes necessary we can poprush said unit without losing too much pop, but the 1 turn won't disrupt our infrastructure building too much if it turns out Julius is getting ready to attack someone else.
Knights normally upgrade to cavalry, which means they will certainly upgrade to cossacks. IIRC it's a pretty expensive upgrade though.
Great person situation: Our next great person will come from St. Petersburg in 10-11 turns, and Coppertownski will follow about 10 turns later, but the Coppertownski one is only 30% likely to be an engineer. The next to follow will be Athens, currently expecting an artist in 50-60 turns, though adding an engineer will speed that up (Could add a scientist to speed up even more at the risk of generating a scientist who'll probably be useless to us by then).
We have no other city projected to give us a great person at current rates before the end of the game (unless of course something goes badly wrong with our game and we end up playing to 1900 or something, in which case several other cities will give us great people
).
Htadus
A and L's dad
Had a look at the save, and it's mostly micromanaging stuff not worth discussing before I play
Well spotted Sam, about Julius probably preparing for war. I rather fear that looking at his relations, his most likely intended victim is us. He has 3 galleons in Cumae, and his force there includes 3 knights, 2 horse archers and 2 cats. He could declare and land by Lodestone City without warning, or by watching the Cumae units, we'd get one turn's warning if he landed by Coppertownski or St. Petersburg. He easily has enough troops in what looks like his invasion force to take any one of those cities.
I know this is going to set our science back a turn or two, but I'd therefore like to pay to upgrade one, maybe two, galleys to galleons (155 gold each) as soon as we can afford it, so they can transport troops across to those cities faster, and if necessary/appropriate attack Rome's vessels. I'll probably also switch St Petersburg to a military unit for one turn , so that if it becomes necessary we can poprush said unit without losing too much pop, but the 1 turn won't disrupt our infrastructure building too much if it turns out Julius is getting ready to attack someone else.
First off, I have no idea why you think he is getting ready to attack but I will go along with it. (BTW is that why he had that galley hang around Nanjing during my turn set?) I do like the one turn investment of shields for a Mil unit and eventually building it. I would like to have a couple of LB in Lodestone City in general since it is not the easiest place to reinforce.
In general, I usually have all my vulnarable cities with 2 defensive units and every other vulnarable city with couple offensive, thereby leaving others with obsolete or no units. In this game all the cities are vulnarable so we would need too many units to properly secure it. Any ways we should get atleast one Spear/Pike and a Elephant in LCity.
From looking at the diplo screen for awhile...I don't think Julius plans to attack us, as he is annoyed with Washington, Cyrus, and Hatty and just cautious with us. Additionally, we are higher in power than all three of those civs, and barely behind him in power. If we were to spend 4-6 turns at 0% science upgrading all our oldest units we would probably pass him in power.
I think we should go ahead and just gift him Printing Press though...it won't help him much since he has very few cottages and it would give him a +1 for our sharing our knowledge with him. That should put us back to Pleased with him again too.
I think we should go ahead and just gift him Printing Press though...it won't help him much since he has very few cottages and it would give him a +1 for our sharing our knowledge with him. That should put us back to Pleased with him again too.
Knights upgrade to cossacks and these guys are really cool. Just recently I played as Peter and with proper promotions they even crack infantry. I do not think that the upgrade was very expensive. It would be nice to have some of those.
I agree with Thrallia to gift Julius printing press. He will not catch us in research anyway and it will not hurt us.
BTW 1 turn of 0% science buys us 2 turns research at 100%
I agree with Thrallia to gift Julius printing press. He will not catch us in research anyway and it will not hurt us.
BTW 1 turn of 0% science buys us 2 turns research at 100%
@Htadus: If you go to the diplomacy screen and look at the options for getting him to declare war on someone, you'll see he won't do that because 'we already have enough on our hands'. I've never seen that message come up other than when a civ is already at war or is planning to go to war (although there may be some other reason for it I don't know about)
@Thrallia: The reason I didn't consider Washington, Cyrus or Hatty as possibilities is they're too far away from Rome: I can't see what he'd have to gain from declaring war on any of them. But yeah, it is a possibility, to some extent I am only speculating here.
@Thrallia: The reason I didn't consider Washington, Cyrus or Hatty as possibilities is they're too far away from Rome: I can't see what he'd have to gain from declaring war on any of them. But yeah, it is a possibility, to some extent I am only speculating here.
Summary
The Detail
Preturn: Poprush courthouse in Novgorod. Take scientists off New Novgorod and Sparta. Change Guangzhou->Granary (it doesn't have one but only takes 8 turns to build). Give Caesar printing press (he remains cautious, but turns to pleased next turn).
Turn 301: Novgorod starts university. Upgrade two galleys to galleons. Workers -> Farm over watermills in Shanghai (it's growing very slowly). Start moving some naval units nearer Roman border, 'just in case'.
IBT. Mansa demands we cancel deals with Mongols. I think Mongols are unfriendly so agree. (Bugger - that loses us 4 gpt, and it turns out Mongols are cautious, although most of our block are annoyed with him so perhaps cancelling isn't a bad thing)
302: Rearrange units in Chinese continent. Send maceman to Athens (currently unguarded), two other maces and knight->galleons. Workers in Nanjing start replacing forest/windmill with cottage/mine.
IBT: Nothing
303: Caravel verifies Mao's units. 2 longbows in Chengdu, mace/2 longbows/pike/cat in Xian, longbow/pike in Tianjin. Nothing to worry about IMO.
IBT: Nothing
304: Julius now has 4 galleons in Cumae, 3 of them loaded.
IBT: Nothing
305: Lodestone: Knight->Pike. 2 Maces and knight to reinforce city arrive. I notice (belatedly) St P is still building a temple that it doesn't need. Stick a University in front. 2nd caravel arrives to check on Rome. Neapolis has 2 maces and longbow
IBT:
306: Beijing: Forbidden Palace->University. Rome has 3 longbows/pike. Our 2nd galleon (with pike/2 cats) positions just S of St. P - from here it can offload into any of St P, Lodestone City, or Cski, in 1 turn. I leave it there for the rest of turnset.
IBT: Huayna (cautious) offers open borders, I refuse. Monty (pleased) asks us to join his war against Germany, I agree. (Reasoning: Germany is in no position to harm us and I believe is not popular amongst our allies).
307: Guangzhou: Granary->continue courthouse
IBT: Nothing
308: Cski: Knight->Longbow. Sparta: Grocer->observatory. Nanjing: University->Harbour. I decide various AI's treasuries have now grown enough for us, so I sell Printing Press to Monty for 240 gold, and to Cyrus for 210 + world map. Caravel returns from Rome to check on Mao. Northern caravel moves across to check on Toku
IBT: Nothing
309: Nothing of significance
IBT: Nothing
310: Shanghai: Knight -> Harbour. Hangzhou: Courthouse->Lighthouse (only just noticed, this city is not growing.) Satsuma has longbow+pike. Great Scientist is born in St. P. Since it won't produce another great person, I remove the scientists and poprush the university. Do same in Beijing. Bit of micromanagement: I remove a town from Moscow (which doesn't have an academy) so I can have St. P work it instead (since St. P does have the academy).
- We have 3549 gold in the bank (!) I kept science on 0% because I was expecting a great scientist and it'd be kinda embarrassing if he didn't have much to do coz we already knew electricity The gold can help us research radio faster. The scientist was born on my last turn, I didn't lightbulb him just in case anyone wanted to do anything else with him, but in principle he's ready to lightbulb then turn our science up to 100%, which'll give us electricity in ~ 4 turns then radio in 19. Should have mass media in 30-40 turns, so people - we just might be coming up to the last turnsets...
- I've done some poprushing. The criteria I used was if a town had poor production and had grown sufficiently that poprushing wouldn't stop cottage tiles from being worked (or would only stop 1 tile for a couple of turns) then I'd poprush.
- Julius is still building what looks like an invasion force in Cumae, but hasn't yet declared on anyone. Our caravels are watching his every move...
- I left the engineer in Moscow because we haven't talked about removing him, but frankly I think he's wasting his time and should be fired, Moscow's never going to generate a great engineer, and that engineer is just stunting city growth (you could get more hammers and food from a hill). (Really wish we'd done the relevent calculations before we started the Hagia Sophia ). I did remove specialists from other cities that were in similar situations, where doing that facilitates poprushing buildings.
- We're at war with Germany (again)
- Should need arise, we have a loaded Galleon stationed off St Petersburg, positioned so it can unload into any of a number of cities in 1 turn.
The Detail
Preturn: Poprush courthouse in Novgorod. Take scientists off New Novgorod and Sparta. Change Guangzhou->Granary (it doesn't have one but only takes 8 turns to build). Give Caesar printing press (he remains cautious, but turns to pleased next turn).
Turn 301: Novgorod starts university. Upgrade two galleys to galleons. Workers -> Farm over watermills in Shanghai (it's growing very slowly). Start moving some naval units nearer Roman border, 'just in case'.
IBT. Mansa demands we cancel deals with Mongols. I think Mongols are unfriendly so agree. (Bugger - that loses us 4 gpt, and it turns out Mongols are cautious, although most of our block are annoyed with him so perhaps cancelling isn't a bad thing)
302: Rearrange units in Chinese continent. Send maceman to Athens (currently unguarded), two other maces and knight->galleons. Workers in Nanjing start replacing forest/windmill with cottage/mine.
IBT: Nothing
303: Caravel verifies Mao's units. 2 longbows in Chengdu, mace/2 longbows/pike/cat in Xian, longbow/pike in Tianjin. Nothing to worry about IMO.
IBT: Nothing
304: Julius now has 4 galleons in Cumae, 3 of them loaded.
IBT: Nothing
305: Lodestone: Knight->Pike. 2 Maces and knight to reinforce city arrive. I notice (belatedly) St P is still building a temple that it doesn't need. Stick a University in front. 2nd caravel arrives to check on Rome. Neapolis has 2 maces and longbow
IBT:
306: Beijing: Forbidden Palace->University. Rome has 3 longbows/pike. Our 2nd galleon (with pike/2 cats) positions just S of St. P - from here it can offload into any of St P, Lodestone City, or Cski, in 1 turn. I leave it there for the rest of turnset.
IBT: Huayna (cautious) offers open borders, I refuse. Monty (pleased) asks us to join his war against Germany, I agree. (Reasoning: Germany is in no position to harm us and I believe is not popular amongst our allies).
307: Guangzhou: Granary->continue courthouse
IBT: Nothing
308: Cski: Knight->Longbow. Sparta: Grocer->observatory. Nanjing: University->Harbour. I decide various AI's treasuries have now grown enough for us, so I sell Printing Press to Monty for 240 gold, and to Cyrus for 210 + world map. Caravel returns from Rome to check on Mao. Northern caravel moves across to check on Toku
IBT: Nothing
309: Nothing of significance
IBT: Nothing
310: Shanghai: Knight -> Harbour. Hangzhou: Courthouse->Lighthouse (only just noticed, this city is not growing.) Satsuma has longbow+pike. Great Scientist is born in St. P. Since it won't produce another great person, I remove the scientists and poprush the university. Do same in Beijing. Bit of micromanagement: I remove a town from Moscow (which doesn't have an academy) so I can have St. P work it instead (since St. P does have the academy).
nice job. Julius already had 4 galleons, 3 loaded though, before you started your turnset. I saw that when I looked at the save and suggested the alternate opponents.
The good news is Julius is extremely unlikely to declare war on us now. According to the xml, Julius is 80% less likely to declare war on someone he is pleased with.
As far as the Hagia Sophia is concerned...its a shame we built it in Moscow then( on the plus side, we do have faster workers)...if we'd built it in Ctown, then Ctown would be getting +10 GE and +4 GM points, which would have definitely increased its chances of producing a GE rather than a GM. Hopefully we get lucky and pop a GE or we'll be in trouble when it comes time to actually BUILD the UN.
I think we should stop trading with unfriendlies soon if we are getting close to 50 turns left before the UN is built. We want to attempt to get as many of our large allies to friendly as we can. We also want Toku or Monty?(He was largest at the end of my turnset, but I don't recall how others feel about him) to be our opponent.
The good news is Julius is extremely unlikely to declare war on us now. According to the xml, Julius is 80% less likely to declare war on someone he is pleased with.
As far as the Hagia Sophia is concerned...its a shame we built it in Moscow then( on the plus side, we do have faster workers
)...if we'd built it in Ctown, then Ctown would be getting +10 GE and +4 GM points, which would have definitely increased its chances of producing a GE rather than a GM. Hopefully we get lucky and pop a GE or we'll be in trouble when it comes time to actually BUILD the UN.I think we should stop trading with unfriendlies soon if we are getting close to 50 turns left before the UN is built. We want to attempt to get as many of our large allies to friendly as we can. We also want Toku or Monty?(He was largest at the end of my turnset, but I don't recall how others feel about him) to be our opponent.
Monty is getting to quite like us so it's probably better to keep Toku as an opponent, in case we can get Monty to vote for us. Only snag is that means we'll need to look further afield if we need to get our population up.
Agreed on the Hagia Sophia - at least we'll know to take that kind of thing into account next time. Good news about Julius - I just hope the decision of who to attack isn't made at the time he starts the military build-up. If it's not us, I'll be intrigued to know who it is.
Cski should produce its great person roughly around the time we discover radio. If it's a merchant that'll help us research mass media at 100%, if it's the engineer then it'll help us build the UN. Engineer will save us more turns but either will be useful.
Agree we need to be careful about trading from now on. (That's why I've avoided trading with Toku, despite him having so much gold). It's actually quite difficult with this many civs - almost everyone is hated by someone we want to be friends with
Agreed on the Hagia Sophia - at least we'll know to take that kind of thing into account next time. Good news about Julius - I just hope the decision of who to attack isn't made at the time he starts the military build-up. If it's not us, I'll be intrigued to know who it is.
Cski should produce its great person roughly around the time we discover radio. If it's a merchant that'll help us research mass media at 100%, if it's the engineer then it'll help us build the UN. Engineer will save us more turns but either will be useful.
Agree we need to be careful about trading from now on. (That's why I've avoided trading with Toku, despite him having so much gold). It's actually quite difficult with this many civs - almost everyone is hated by someone we want to be friends with
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Got it. From what I can see it just looks like more of the same so I'm intending to play this evening ~ 10 hours or so unless there's anything any one particularly wants me to do.
Is Julius pleased with us? I thought he was cautious but I can't look at the game atm to check.
Is Julius pleased with us? I thought he was cautious but I can't look at the game atm to check.
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