Isolated emperor start

Snaaty

Deity
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
2,057
Hi all,

since I´m back home now and feel like trying a new game, I would like to pick up futurehermit´s proposal in an earlier thread to start a game isolated on emperor...

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So first of all, is there still any interest in this, and when yes, which leader and which map typ should it be?

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And if we vote for "yes, let´s try this out" who will take the nice job of generating the map for this challange (which could involve re-rolling some times:crazyeye:)???


See you soon

Snaaty
 
I would definitely like to see this as I like to play with the map I get and recently switched on Fractal and isolated start are pretty common.

I thikn Elisabeth is good and Fractal. Finalcial for cottages and Philo to pop out GS for lightbulbing.

I just can't be without saying this that I won my first Emperor Domination Victory today. Yay! I'm so proud about myself. :king:
 
@ Ruler:

Congrats for you victory:goodjob:


@ All:

I would prefere a leader that has neither organized or philosophical as traits, because these are the strongest traits and I would like to do without them...

Also, I would prefere one of the new civs and leaders from warlords, so my vote goes down to carthage... ...with financial and charismatic, they are still quite strong and their unique building also would fit in the "isolation" theme...

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If nobody has any objections against this, I will try to get an isolated start with them on a standard continent map
 
Isolation start with what kind of Victory? Domination? Spacerace and Culture victories seem to be the easiest on isolated starts.

If your aiming for a Domination Victory from an Isolated start, I'd go with the Vikings...

The beeline to Astronomy, will allow you to build Galleons... with their UB giving free Navigation 1 so you'll reach the other continent quicker and his UU Berserker with the Amp Promotion will help at attacking City from Ships.

Aggressive is pretty obvious synergy with a domination victory and financial will allow us to benefit from all the coast lines tiles especially when combined with colossus and those nice early 4 Commerce tiles.

Although the colossus has a negative synergy with Astronomy because the colossus becomes obsolete with that tech.
 
Cothons will be good once you get Astronomy assuming you have no coastal trade routes(but then you wouldn't be isolated) and you can get the AI out of Mercantilism.

I had a Monarch game once as the Hannibal and i got the Great Lighthouse plus the Temple of Artemis in my coastal capital and was pulling about 66 commerce from my 6 trade routes (1 base, 1 currency, 2 Great lighthouse, 1 Cothon, 1 from Free markets. + 100% from Temple of Artemis and + 50% from Cothon) while running Beauracracy. Very nice.
But this was Archiplego though.
 
I wouild find this very interesting because I always get into difficulties with isolated starts so would love to see the tactics involved in winning. I always play random maps, and when isolated start shows up, it usually means a long, slow, struggle to ultimate defeat.
 
@ kniteowl:

I´m easy with victory condition... ...but we can agree upon one... ...I normally go for space race, but domination is also OK (diplo I don´t like to much)

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@ 50_dollar_bag:

Good points there, I will try to work some of these into the overall strategy (what will be something special and therefore interesting for me, since I normally don´t build early wonders except the GL)

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@ Harbourboy:

No guaranty for winning here, but we will try our best

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@ all:

So I think Carthage is OK. I will start a standard continent game with all settings on random (except our starting nation) and will restart until we end up isolated (what means saving, settling on the spot, surrendering at 4000 BC, looking at our position in the endgame screen (at 4000 BC the AI´s haven´t settled and therefore we only know where we are) and restarting untill we are isolated...

I only hope I´m luck and don´t end up restarting for hours...

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I will post the starting save when I´m done. Everybody feel free to join in this game and to give it a try. We will play again without any rules and without competition so it´s again only for fun and comparing/learning
 
Sounds good. I am very interested to see how you avoid being last in 'power' and getting overrun by overpowered invasion units in the mid to late game.
 
Hi Snaaty,

I'm very interested, especially if you go for domination!!! :D

Will be lurking and probably playing along...
 
Well, a start is drawn (after 26 tries:crazyeye:)

PIC REMOVEC


Looks OK so far, but not great. Since we start near tundra, perhaps we will find silver and/or fur nearby...


Here is the save, feel free to join in and to give it a try

SAVE REMOVED

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The first discussion round will be again around 1 AD so we can all compare a little. You can submit an early save, but you don´t have to.

The first part of the game ends when you have liberalism in. Then you should post your save because this is maybe the best point to compare the vartious early game-styles.

When you post a save and a description, don´t forget to use spoiler tags;)


For those who need a little help with this start:
Spoiler :

I already played some turns into this game and there are some good and some bad news:

There are no early money resources nearby (only ivory, but that doesn´t generate enough money, so you must build cottages for your first cities (I would advise to build two per city)

There is marble nearby, so go writing-alpa-lit and build the GL. The city with the GL should build the NE directly after the GL. The GS producition can be delayed after the GL and the NE are in, since you don´t need philosophy (first lightbulb) early when not having neighbours (at least on emperor)

Try to build the Great Lighthouse (chop it) and the ToA. Even when you are beaten, you get the money you need to beef up your research

Go for the Colossus if you like (woth a try since you will find bronze)
 
I will play, though I've played Haniball already. I'd rather see Industrious leader ...

I do not agree that Organized is overpowered. I rarely construct courthouses. I try myself get as many religions as possible and found as many shrines as possible. However all my deity wins (in Vanilla) were bound with Organized leaders though ;p.
 
Well, I trow my save :)

My theory allways was, have isolated start - develop commercial capital and build wanders.
Wanders make your civ better then AI you need make your civ more efficient.
Wanders is one way of doing it.

So, I simple settle in place, amount of forest is attractive.
see marble, definatly want marble line of wanders, with exeption of stonehende. Stonehende have a good synergy with trat.

I had to admit I used preknolidge that we have isolated strat.
I research hanting first, build warrior when grow to size 2, then set to 0 grow and build 2 scouts and send them to explore and then fog bust.
they pick up some hats, some gold, animal hasbentry and maps.
Build a worker.
then I research meditation and slavery and start to build stonehenge.
Chop it when slaveyr got there.
build settler and more workers when researching massonry-well-meditation-priesthood,
Chop and build Oracle in harry and took Monarchy.

Revolted to monarchy/slavery researched politheisma nd biuld Pantheon research Litherature + math and build GL.

So there are positions:
Spoiler :






Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-0001.CivWarlordsSave

On Imperor isolated pretty easy.
 
One very important wonder for isolated starts is The Great Lighthouse. It gives you two extra traderoutes for coastal cities, which is very powerful because you need to research everything yourself. Building wonders is by the way the way to go and you could even try a cultural victory. Founding both Hinduism, Judaism and building The Oracle to get Christianity (and the Sixtine Chapel!) is a good tactic. GPP by wonders and temples (3 temples in one city=3 priests!) will give you the great prophets for founding Islam. Paper is a nice tech which you can trade with the other civs by the time they find you. (trick: exhange paper for world map and other techs and your civ may be the first to circumvent the world!)
 
I have played this map and lost Liberalism race. I needed one more turn, but someone who complited Pyramids beat me. I don't know if I am gonna play this further. For more details see spoiler.

Spoiler :

So constructed Stonehenge, Oracle, GL. No more wonders.
Found 4 religions: Christianity, Confucianism, Taoism and Islam.
And I am furious because ...
Following persons appeared in capital:
Prophet: it was obvious cause finished Oracle and Stonehenge (lightbulbed Theology)
Prophet: it was to stand, cause GL was finished when GP bar was filled with half (lightbulbed half of Divine Right)
Prophet: there was 60% chance GS to appear, but I had time before adopting Beaurocracy (lightbulbed the second half of Divine Right)
Prophet: it started to be annoying and chances of what happened where about 1/16 I think
Scientist: I was happy cause finally could construct Academy in my capital
Prophet: it was insane. Chances of GP were about 25% now, cause was running two scientist, two scientists from GL and GL points plus 12% of appearing GA from National Epic (shrine of Confucianism)
Prophet: I was thinking whether reload the game. I needed GS to lightbulb Education. (shrine of Taoism)
Prophet: chances of GProphet were still about 25%. I surrendered. (shrine of Christianity)
Prophet: superspecialist. I am going for Prozac next week :(

And thanks to those great people I lost Lib race.

Philosophy was lightbulbed as well, but GS was from another city this time and chances of GS were 100%.

In assumption. Chances of what happened to me were:
0,5*0,4*0,25*1,25(GS)*0,25*0,25*0,25*0,25=1/5000
Can you believe that?

I do not believe in luck (or unluck), so I'd rather think that the fact of having any Holy city WITHOUT the shrine GREATLY increases chances of appearing Great Prophets. It must be changed.

And the savegame:

 

Attachments

  • Snaaty AD-1170.CivWarlordsSave
    239.4 KB · Views: 115
Hi everybody, lots of feedback so far :D

@ Giaur:

Bad luck this is, but even without lib you should be able to compete...

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@ Multineer:

Looks very promising, but only your city placement is quite similar to the ones I had chosen (but in a VERY different order). Also I had completely different wonders build (was quite easy with marble & broze...) and didn´t grow my cities that big (due to helth problems). Generally, your overall strat is quite different to mine but seems to be extremely effective...

Btw, did you use fogbusters ???

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@ Dirk1302:

Give it a shot:goodjob:

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@ all:

There is still the question about the winning condition. I still would prefere space race (in my opinion, domination is not harder, it simply makes the game longer due to heavy troop movements (like said before, I tend to win with numbers :D...)) but futurehermit seems to be still stuck on domination. So should we agree on a common victory condition or just play along our prefered ways???

Spoiler :

@ Multineer:

Yes, emperor in general is relatively easy when you play FE with slavery and/or caste system combined with monarchy, no matter what start you draw;)

With marble, I was able to build the GL, ToA, whipped the Great Lighthous and thanks to bronze I even build the Colossus. Then headed directly for compass to build (=whip) the Carthag special building in all costal cities (summed up, this will delay the lib race some hundred years, but, on emperor, about 1000 AD should still be fine...



I will post some screens of my game up to 1 AD later tonight
 
I am thinking about building those cheap wonders in another city than capital, next time. And too many religions is also bad, especially on isolated map. However too many GS's are also bad. I prefer Great Merchants. Great Engineers are the best, but they rarely appear. Great Prophets best fit as superspecialists by far. My favourite superspecialists.

edit: It's an addiction to found too many religions. I feel bad when I can found religion, and should give up. But I will try cut this addiction off.

edit2: No save from 1AD, but fortunately found save from 50BC

edit3: I am skipping Stonehenge next time. Caste System makes your borders quicker to expand ...
 

Attachments

  • Snaaty BC-0050.CivWarlordsSave
    181.6 KB · Views: 88
Hi Snaaty,

I'd say let everyone pick the victory condition he/she's comfortable with. I probably try domination since i find space race not much of a challenge on emperor while domination from an isolated start seems to be a tough challenge (only won domination twice on a continents map on emperor sofar).

Unfortunately i don't seem to have too much time this week so i can't post first results before thursday i'm afraid.
 
Personally, I don't care which victory condition people play for. I would like it if someone would try domination (I will if I have time) since I would like to see domination played out from an isolated start. Most people seem to favour cultural/science maybe diplomacy from isolated start and I would like to see something different :lol:
 
@ Dirk1302:

Well, then we will end the round up to lib on Friday, which will open up some more discussion (haven´t looked at Giaur´s later save for example) and you have enought time to play and post

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@ Futurehermit:

If you join in and give it a shot at domination (or at least try to do so;)), I will also go domination. In general, I use the same style of play no matter what maps I play, meaning:

I go cav or gren around 1000 - 1400 AD (in this game it could be a little later because of the isolated start and the need of astronomy for galleons) and try to have a tech lead by then (=mid-game), backed up with drafted muskets and some catas, kill one or two neighbours, then finish game with modern armors late-game again with a tech lead...

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@ all:

I had a quick look at the 1 AD (more or less) saves in so far (Multineer and Giaur) and compared them to my try:

Spoiler :

Multineer has Monarchy and Theology which I haven´t and CS would take 15 turns to be researched. The NE is in production and takes another 8 turnes to finish. A GP is hanging around in the capital.

Phil isn´t researched (lightbulbed)

Wonders build (all in capital):
GL, Oracle and Pantheon

6 cottages were build (4 in capital) and 4 cities were found so far, 3 quite big ones (capital size 13 with some troops to keep it happy)

Civics are herrule and slavery and research is at 70% without loosing money

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Giaur has Monarchy and Theology which I haven´t and CS would take 20 turns to be researched. The NE is already finished. No fogbusters are in the north-lands.

Phil is researched (lightbulbed)

Wonders build (all in capital):
GL, Oracle, Stonhenge and NE

11 cottages were build (6 in capital) and 4 cities were found so far, all medium sized. Animal husbandry isn´t researched??? and the pigs near the capital aren´t worked

Civics are herrule and caste-system and research is at 60% without loosing money

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Now my try:

I have metal casting but am missing monarchy (next to be researched) and CS would take 13 turns to be researched. The NE is already finished.

Phil is researched (lightbulbed)

Wonders build in capital:
GL, NE

In second city:
ToA, Colossus (one turn left)

In third city:
Great Lighthouse

Only 4 cottages were build (2 in capita and 2 in second city, with no more cottages planned) and 4 cities were found so far (5th settler is on the way), all medium sized.

Civics are despo and slavery and research is at 80% and loosing 3 gold per turn

Some milestones:

2200 BC:

Most fogbustering is already done and monuments are being chopped, for popping huts I researched hunting as first tech and then produced 2 scouts

PIC REMOVED


900 BC:

Had… is whipping the Great Lighthouse, Utica is building the ToA, while the capital is producing the 4th settler

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25 AD:

I missed the 1 AD save for one turn... …Utica is building the Colossus, the revolution to Pacifism and Taoism is in process. In Had… and Hippo the real whipping just started and I try to pump out city infrastructure

PIC REMOVED


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Fazit/Differences:

All games look more or less equal/good, despite the different approaches:


@ Giaur:

In my opinion, you have way too many cottages while your cities are to small (your reseach is the worst). When running her.rule and caste, you should build less cottages and grow your cities more... ...why haven´t you researched animal husb. early and have worked the pigs???


@ Multineer:

I normally would try to get the NE and Phil. earlier, because it really speeds up GPp. The Pantheon I don´t build, because it doesn´t do that much difference when you have the GL and the NE early in my opinion. Why haven´t you used the whip lately (I see no citicens complaining:mad:)?

@ all:

What I did different and why (I don´t say it is better, but different):

Main thing is, that I didn´t build all my wonders in capital. I did this, because I wanted my capital to be a GS factory early and didn´t want to spoil the GPp with other wonders. I decided to build the Great Lighthouse because I felt I had time and lots of forrests to chop and a decent sized city to use a final wip. The ToA and the Colossus were planned after I had seen marble and bronze, because they would speed up research and help to produce a GM. Therefore I had set research to metal casting first (building a forge and the colossus), then CoL (Monarchy will be next, then currency, then Compass (to build/whip the Carthag special building in all cities, then CS)

I used the whip quite early and quite a lot to speed up buildings

I didn´t build much cottages, but started to work 4 of them very early (first and second city). Again in my opinion, this is enough to fuel your early-game research.

I didn´t build the Oracle because I don´t like getting to many GP´s and dont think this wonder is worth it (my reseach at around 1 AD is comparable even without it). Stonhenge and Pantheon I never build because of the same reasons (I don´t want GP´s and GA´s, I only want GS´s in the beginning)

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Everybody feel free to criticize my try


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Edit:
My save...

SAVE REMOVED

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See you soon

Snaaty

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REMINDER:

All games up to lib should be in before Friday
 
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