{MOD} Naval Expansion Programme

The Naval Expansion Programme Version 0.3

Development Thread
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Unit Infos Fix
Fixed XML File. Goes in Naval Expansion Programme\Assets\XML\Units which is normally located in Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods. Let it replace the file that is there already.
I messed up on one of the tags so and didn't have a chance to see it before I uploaded here.
This fixes the error you would get on startup when loading 0.3 without it.



V.02 deleted after 401 downloads.

V 0.3:

-I added Unique Ship units for most of the Civilizations. The only ones that I did not do are one that I either haven't found a suitable one, or haven't chosen one yet.

-I have also added a trade route system as I would love to see it in BTS. It is basically roads on water. You require them to trade for oversea resources, and also to gain Trade Routes in your city with oversea cities (Including you own.
I have tested it for the player, but not yet have had time to see if the AI will build it.
-A new Stealth promotion that is like Commando for certain Naval units (Subs, destroyers etc)
-Sorry to the Mac users, it was getting to big for my connection to use a .zip file so I used a .7z. Maybe some nice Windows user with a High speed connection with kindly do a version for ya!.

GM
V 0.2:

On recommendation I deleted maybe 10 ships or so, as it was quite hectic between Steam Power and Combustion so..

After playing most of a game on normal speed, it still is a little full between Galleons and Ironclads, but nonetheless fun. Also in the WW2 to modern era it is very short and I didn't get to build much, but that was mainly cause there was no oil on my island and it took me a while to acquire some.

You now cannot build a lot of ships without investing in the Shipyards, but they will pay off also (A new National Shipyard wonder, looking for a good name).

You can now not upgrade most ships to the next as historically you couldn't, but there is at the moment another option to make them useful after their time.

Why it is so full is it is geared to make Marathon games more interesting, after a while they get a little monotonous at sea when all you can build are Frigates, Galleons, Destroyer, Battleships, subs and carriers.


8 Naval Oriented Promotions to add a 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' idea so Destroyers bear Submarines that beat Battleships that beat Destroyers.
Most of these ships are probably unneeded, and at the moment there is no Python or SDK work though I want to that later.

I made this specifically to make it more enjoyable to build a large fleet, and add a few ships I thought were missing (Ship of the Line, AEGIS Cruiser, Nuclear Submarine etc.)

If you download it, please tell me what you think, especially criticisms as I know it is far from perfect.

I want to add later quite a few more promotions, a couple naval buildings that will help make it more 'realistic' in a fun way. I also am thinking of adding a Unique ship for every Civilization, plus a couple more types of ship.

Right now it is compatible with Warlords 2.08, but a lot of this is being geared for the new expansion pack, Beyond the Sword, since I learned there is to be trade routes.

Thanks to: ArdRaeiss, C.Roland, CdGGambit, Chamaedrys, danrell, snafusmith and kodzi for graphics and Goodgame, AThousandYoung, Lord Neil for research, Dom Pedro II for some python work, encouragement and ideas.

Here is a few pics.
And the description. I am also working on something to make resource gathering more interesting...

Looks really good. I'm trying it out.

Thank you. Remember though it is still early and a lot of the graphics are kind of blah (Mostly my own stuff though).

Tell me what you think! I actually haven't played a game with it yet. To busy continuing work on it.

Hmm, 42 downloads and no comments? Is it really that bad?

What I really need to know is how all the units balance out with there strengths and promotions..

IMO There are way to many ships. It seems that one would spend all their time upgrading instead of actually using the ships.

I was working on something like this before a new Job took all my extra time.

There is a graph of what I was "thinking of"
I figure that it represents the "major" catagories. Without too much clutter in the eras. It also had some unique concepts such as the Fireship, Museum Ship and the Merchant Ships (which I dont know what I was going to do with)
Basic Idea was:
Warships (High Strength, Low Movement) (Frigate would be a 8 - 4, Ship of the Line 10 - 3, Monitor would round out the age at 12 - 2)
Scout (Low Strength, High Movement)
Monitors/Torpedo Boats/Subs - Hidden from most

Fireships are a "Kamikaze" type ship used to weaken the Ship of the Lines and such. Traditionally they were made up of outdated ships lit afire with gunpowder and alcohol. Basically a Naval Missile in the Medieval/Renaissance Ages.
Museum Ships: Outdated Ships that "build" a building in ports which increase Commerce (due to Tourism). I got the Idea from the USS Constitution which is docked in Boston, MA and the Mayflower II in Plymouth, MA, both are major tourist sights.

Another thing it did was eliminate unrealistic upgrades. (Trireme to Caravel) Now in order to circumnavigate the globe one cant have to wait with a Trireme and upgrade.

Finally I was including "Wonder Boats" i.e. Ships that were build once (like the Wonders) which are basically stronger upgrades of another, "normal" unit. Example: Bismarck would be a Battleship with 50 STR, 5, movement or something to that effect. The Mayflower would give an advantage to the builder to colonize quicker, Magellan/Columbas to get the circumnavigation bonus. (only really need 1)

I agree. There are a ton of beautiful models here, but too many to deal with in-game. Having a couple of lines would be great: scout, battleship, sub, and support ship, with a few key wood and metal variations scattered across the tech tree. The aircraft carrier could be a single that isn't tied-in for practical purposes.

My concept of how it might work:
Scout Line:
Caravel > Frigate > Destroyer > AEGEIS Cruiser
Battleship Line:
Trireme > Galleass > Ship of the Line > Ironclad > Battleship
Sub Line:
U-Boat > Submarine > Nuclear Sub
Support Line:
Galley > Galleon > Merhcantman > Transport
Other:
Aircraft Carrier

That, of course, doesn't include Unique Units for civilizations.

The most exciting thing I saw here though was mentioned in the last post, something about Wonder Units. That is a brilliant idea. I mean, single units with special bonuses or promotions that there can only ever be one of in the game, so many possibilities. Has it ever been implemented, perhaps in Fall From Heaven II? Do you have any idea how to implement it? Somebody seriously needs to get on that!

If you did, I'd suggest, based mostly on Edgecrusher's list:
Bismark (stronger battleship)
Monitor (stronger Ironclad)
Mayflower (carvel that can carry settler)
Santa Maria (galleon with one extra movement point)

Have you had any success with having the AI send escorts with ships ? I was thinking along the lines of sending a DD or two to protect a battleship or carrier against subs. In modern era, it would be DDGs to protect against subs and CG (guided missile cruisers) to protect against air threats.

One of my biggest disappointments with CivIV so far, is that the AI seems no smarter in regards to naval warfare than it was in Civ3. If this mod or some other could get the AI to actually employ escort type vessels for capital ships, that would be wonderful.

I have to commend you on taking a step to rectify Civ4's lack of naval units.

Edgecrusher said:

IMO There are way to many ships. It seems that one would spend all their time upgrading instead of actually using the ships.

I was working on something like this before a new Job took all my extra time.

There is a graph of what I was "thinking of"
I figure that it represents the "major" catagories. Without too much clutter in the eras. It also had some unique concepts such as the Fireship, Museum Ship and the Merchant Ships (which I dont know what I was going to do with)
Basic Idea was:
Warships (High Strength, Low Movement) (Frigate would be a 8 - 4, Ship of the Line 10 - 3, Monitor would round out the age at 12 - 2)
Scout (Low Strength, High Movement)
Monitors/Torpedo Boats/Subs - Hidden from most

Fireships are a "Kamikaze" type ship used to weaken the Ship of the Lines and such. Traditionally they were made up of outdated ships lit afire with gunpowder and alcohol. Basically a Naval Missile in the Medieval/Renaissance Ages.
Museum Ships: Outdated Ships that "build" a building in ports which increase Commerce (due to Tourism). I got the Idea from the USS Constitution which is docked in Boston, MA and the Mayflower II in Plymouth, MA, both are major tourist sights.

Another thing it did was eliminate unrealistic upgrades. (Trireme to Caravel) Now in order to circumnavigate the globe one cant have to wait with a Trireme and upgrade.

Finally I was including "Wonder Boats" i.e. Ships that were build once (like the Wonders) which are basically stronger upgrades of another, "normal" unit. Example: Bismarck would be a Battleship with 50 STR, 5, movement or something to that effect. The Mayflower would give an advantage to the builder to colonize quicker, Magellan/Columbas to get the circumnavigation bonus. (only really need 1)

Click to expand...

Vrenir said:

I agree. There are a ton of beautiful models here, but too many to deal with in-game. Having a couple of lines would be great: scout, battleship, sub, and support ship, with a few key wood and metal variations scattered across the tech tree. The aircraft carrier could be a single that isn't tied-in for practical purposes.

My concept of how it might work:
Scout Line:
Caravel > Frigate > Destroyer > AEGEIS Cruiser
Battleship Line:
Trireme > Galleass > Ship of the Line > Ironclad > Battleship
Sub Line:
U-Boat > Submarine > Nuclear Sub
Support Line:
Galley > Galleon > Merhcantman > Transport
Other:
Aircraft Carrier

That, of course, doesn't include Unique Units for civilizations.

The most exciting thing I saw here though was mentioned in the last post, something about Wonder Units. That is a brilliant idea. I mean, single units with special bonuses or promotions that there can only ever be one of in the game, so many possibilities. Has it ever been implemented, perhaps in Fall From Heaven II? Do you have any idea how to implement it? Somebody seriously needs to get on that!

If you did, I'd suggest, based mostly on Edgecrusher's list:
Bismark (stronger battleship)
Monitor (stronger Ironclad)
Mayflower (carvel that can carry settler)
Santa Maria (galleon with one extra movement point)

Click to expand...

I agree somewhat with both of you, there is a lot of ships, but that was because I was gearing it for marathon games. But I guess most people play just normal length games..
I guess maybe I could make two? 1 for Marathon games, the other for normal ones..

I like that wonder ship idea and it would be very simple. I just looked and you can give unit classes a max global instants just like buildings!
I like that idea! Maybe coupled with a unique ship?

That museum ship idea, I was already thinking of something along that line instead of upgrading. I mean very rarely in history could you actually take one ship and change it into another. The only instances I could recall would be frigate/SotL-> Ironclad or WWII Battleship to Modern day one, or almost any to a transport..

I like both of your guys charts and stuff, but I feel that it may be too few ship.. I wanted to add a ton just to add a ton, and make all sorts of different types and stuff.

Maybe I could cut out the Predreadnought era, and partly merge the WWI, WWII eras?

vingrjoe said:

Have you had any success with having the AI send escorts with ships ? I was thinking along the lines of sending a DD or two to protect a battleship or carrier against subs. In modern era, it would be DDGs to protect against subs and CG (guided missile cruisers) to protect against air threats.

One of my biggest disappointments with CivIV so far, is that the AI seems no smarter in regards to naval warfare than it was in Civ3. If this mod or some other could get the AI to actually employ escort type vessels for capital ships, that would be wonderful.

I have to commend you on taking a step to rectify Civ4's lack of naval units.

Click to expand...

Actually I haven't played around with any Python or SDK (it confuses me) but that may be something I will try to get!

Thanks all for replying!

What I am working on now is a Raw material (ie Timber)->Processes Material (ie Lumber)-> Ship through a Shipyard..It is hard to explain but So far it seems workable.

I also want (as partly mentioned above) to get rid of upgrading most ships, and giving them some sort of use after (Target ships to give a small instant boost in xp) or Museum Ships (as above, give a little commerce plus culture). etc.

But that is all to come.

Updated to Version 0.2.

I took your guys suggestions and cut back on the ship some..

Tell me what you think.

Keep up the good work....and don't be afraid to have more ships. A few will complain about the number of ships and we saw that in ViSa too, but 99% of the people like having more choices.

This will make a nice addition to v4 of ViSa after BTS

Thanks.

The next thing I want to do is implement the Unique ships and wonder ships, should be fun.

Could I make a suggestion that may simplify your coding, but make it more difficult to play? Don't have any warships upgrade. Unless you can upgrade the armour or weaponry with the same hull, it has never made sense for any warship to upgrade to another class. The human would simply have to decommission the old classes when the new ship classes were built.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine the AI having the capability to handle this properly.

I_batman said:

Could I make a suggestion that may simplify your coding, but make it more difficult to play? Don't have any warships upgrade. Unless you can upgrade the armour or weaponry with the same hull, it has never made sense for any warship to upgrade to another class. The human would simply have to decommission the old classes when the new ship classes were built.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine the AI having the capability to handle this properly.

Click to expand...

Well Firaxis does this all the time.....

Upgrades are a vital aspect of Civ and I would hate to see them removed for ships.

And this isn't real life or history class

I_batman said:

Could I make a suggestion that may simplify your coding, but make it more difficult to play? Don't have any warships upgrade. Unless you can upgrade the armour or weaponry with the same hull, it has never made sense for any warship to upgrade to another class. The human would simply have to decommission the old classes when the new ship classes were built.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine the AI having the capability to handle this properly.

Click to expand...

Well that is what I had in this version, and it doesn't seem to hurt it too much, but the only problem I am trying to find a workaround for is that at the moment you can still build every type of ship at the end, kind of unrealistic.

But if enough people want I could put the upgrades back in..

TAfirehawk said:

Well Firaxis does this all the time.....

Upgrades are a vital aspect of Civ and I would hate to see them removed for ships.

And this isn't real life or history class

Click to expand...

Of course it is not, But I thinks, as I have added a lot of stuff for 'historical' purposes I wanted to give a almost-no-upgrade approach a shot.

Nice its good to see that some one understands naval warfare, I hope you decide to make there movement very slow in comparison, this is just because I like reality with this game.

Thanks.

You mean you want ships slow in comparison? I personally think, if anything they are a tad too slow. But the fastest units so far would be a few modern units, they move 10. Nothing like 25 or something..

@GeneralMatt, I played your mod and am enjoying it very much. It is nice to see something done to improve Naval warfare finally. Loving the new promotions for the Ships. One request that I miss from civ 3 is the ability to use your ships on strategic choke hold to blockade your opponent. Anyways big pat on the back keep up the good work and looking forward to more ships.

rockinroger said:

@GeneralMatt, I played your mod and am enjoying it very much. It is nice to see something done to improve Naval warfare finally. Loving the new promotions for the Ships. One request that I miss from civ 3 is the ability to use your ships on strategic choke hold to blockade your opponent. Anyways big pat on the back keep up the good work and looking forward to more ships.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

So you mean by blockading, the ability to cut them off from getting resources kind of? I think that unfortunately that may have to wait to BTS with trade routes, but if you mean anything else, feel free to elaborate, I am open for suggestions.

-GM

@GeneralMatt, actually what i mean is to physically block passage, which could be done in civ 3. Unfortunately I dont think this can be done right now. Reading the Firaxis chat from yesterday though, I do believe that Privateers could blockade trade routes in BTS.