Citizen's initiative: Should the Longbow attack V2 poll be disregarded?

Should the Longbow attack V2 poll be disregarded? link to poll in question

Yes
No
Other (for example: I object to this poll)
Abstain

Private poll.

Open for two days. See links (above) to other polls as well as judicial thread for discussion.

I posted a poll and not even two hours later DaveShack posts another that could very well be used to overturn the results of my poll. I can find no law against what he did though I find it a very low handed tactic. In an effort to ensure the citizenry can have their say between the two polls I am posting this poll which will either affirm or disavow the longbow attack v2 poll.

I am not happy that I feel I have to stoop to this level but I honestly see no alternative. It would be helpful if no one posted any more polls about this subject untill these three finish.

I Will Continue Posting Longbow Polls Until The Next Decade If Necessary.

Nice move deleting that post DaveShack. For those who didn't see it, it was a comment from DaveShack about how long he was willing to post polls about longbows.

Fine, I'll undelete it then. And I stand by it too.

Back to this poll's contents...

Are we really going to make the worst possible in-game move because one person broke the DG rules and then a bunch of other people broke the same rules by discussing what the first person wrote?

Or are we going to play a game of civ, and make the correct move for the situation?

If you want to play civ, then vote a resounding no in this poll.

For the third time...

Ignoring the DP's unathorized move is like reloading after making a bad move. To some of us reloading is a . If you're in that group then vote yes here.

donsig said:

For the third time...

Ignoring the DP's unathorized move is like reloading after making a bad move. To some of us reloading is a . If you're in that group then vote yes here.

Click to expand...

It's only "reloading" (to gain advantage) if making that move affects what you would have done. In this case it does not have any such affect. If your child jostles your arm while moving a unit and it lands on the wrong square, do you reload? I do, in that situation.

If you distinguish between deliberate reloading to gain an advantage from reloading to repair an innocent mistake, then vote no.

DaveShack said:

I Will Continue Posting Longbow Polls Until The Next Decade If Necessary.

Click to expand...

LOL, this is indeed entertaining. The Saga of the German Longbowman.

I'm kinda between Daveshack and Donsig.

There were many times in old Demogames when looking at the save I accidentally did a move or something that was irreversible. As soon as I realized it I reloaded, trying to make sure I didn't really give myself a chance to see any info gained from such an action. In this case, the action was not done during a scheduled game session, which means it could be considered alright to "reload." The mistake was also made by a relatively new person to the Demogame and is in relation to a very controversial desicion right now, which could justify it in terms of the citizen dynamic. Allowing Joe to learn from his mistake and not letting Joe's mistake deprive the citizens from making the decision they want in regards to the Longbow.

However, in the case mentioned by Donsig it seems valid information was gathered and posted in the forums as a result. The irreversible action was also preformed by the DP. As such it can be justified in this case having the move be permanent since we did benefit from it and the DP was the one responsible.

All in all, right now I tend to agree with Daveshack for the sake of the Forum dynamic.

As it regards to immediately posting polls to override other polls.... I have no comment, particularly in this case. However, I've seen more "bickering" and "name calling" instead of intelligent and respectful debates, which has disturbed me recently.

Falcon02 said:

However, in the case mentioned by Donsig it seems valid information was gathered and posted in the forums as a result. The irreversible action was also preformed by the DP. As such it can be justified in this case having the move be permanent since we did benefit from it and the DP was the one responsible.

Click to expand...

Actually, the revealed information was not beneficial. If we move a keshik one move, and then attack in a separate move the odds are low, but if we do the attack as a single move the odds are high. I had already posted that the keshik's odds were 67%, before Joe's unfortunate attempt to find out the odds of the 2-phase move. If we keep the bad move, we lose the chance to attack the longbow before EOT, and our brave Yasutanian army will likely face a bolstered defense by the time we get around to using the whole stack as a unit.

I would have challenged any instruction to move the keshik in two phases, and we would have performed the attack as a single move.

I'm against reloading on purpose. However, I know as well as Falcon02 how easy it is to make a mistake while looking at the save. As long as it's accidental, I don't feel such a move should have consequences.

Also, I abstained in this poll, I don't want to have this poll war continue any longer, and I would have thought that you two would be more mature than this.

Due to just now reading the polls I find this rather hilarious and a little deja-vu. I'm curious if Dave and Donsig are copy/pasting the posts between the threads.

DaveShack said:

If we keep the bad move, we lose the chance to attack the longbow before EOT,

Click to expand...

This is incorrect. Joe's move allowed the keshik to be able to attack the LB this turn, just at lower odds. The keshik would still follow the original "Kill the LB" poll. From my understanding of Joe's move, he used up one point of the two point movement allowed, thereby still having a point to use to attack the LB.

dutchfire said:

I'm against reloading on purpose. However, I know as well as Falcon02 how easy it is to make a mistake while looking at the save. As long as it's accidental, I don't feel such a move should have consequences.

Click to expand...

I understand it can be accidental, but IMO that doesn't mean it should just be ignored. I used to reload myself a couple of years ago. I didn't stop doing it until I started submitting to GOTM. I learned not to reload because I had to and was told it wasn't allowed. Being told it was wrong, but allowing it anyway, doesn't cause someone to learn their lesson. Granted, I have a feeling Joe will never do it again after all this.

dutchfire said:

I don't want to have this poll war continue any longer, and I would have thought that you two would be more mature than this.

Click to expand...

I also don't like all this, but I can see it happening between these two. It's like a DG tradition!

Oh yeah.....

Reloading depends on your definition. In the HOF.......(you've heard it before, so you know what I'll say)......and that's how I play my personal games.

Methos said:

This is incorrect. Joe's move allowed the keshik to be able to attack the LB this turn, just at lower odds. The keshik would still follow the original "Kill the LB" poll. From my understanding of Joe's move, he used up one point of the two point movement allowed, thereby still having a point to use to attack the LB.

Click to expand...

If we require Joe's move and then attack the longbow, we send the keshik to his death -- it's only like 30% or something (I do not remember the exact odds). I would expect a DP to stop play right there, as the instructions at that point are obviously wrong. It's definitely what I would do as DP.

DaveShack said:

If we keep the bad move, we lose the chance to attack the longbow before EOT,

Click to expand...

This is the statement I was saying was incorrect and after reading your latest post, I believe you just used the wrong word. Your statement says we lose the chance to attack before EOT, which is incorrect. I believe what you meant to say was, we lose the chance to kill it. I apologize if I am mistaking your intent.

DaveShack said:

If we require Joe's move and then attack the longbow, we send the keshik to his death -- it's only like 30% or something (I do not remember the exact odds). I would expect a DP to stop play right there, as the instructions at that point are obviously wrong. It's definitely what I would do as DP.

Click to expand...

If I was the DP, I also would stop the turnchat for review of the instruction. As I recall I mentioned this in one of the many posts on that subject, or related subjects. But again, that doesn't change the validity of the "Kill the LB" poll. The DP still has the ability to fulfill the binding poll, it would just be suicide now.

Methos said:

This is the statement I was saying was incorrect and after reading your latest post, I believe you just used the wrong word. Your statement says we lose the chance to attack before EOT, which is incorrect. I believe what you meant to say was, we lose the chance to kill it. I apologize if I am mistaking your intent.

Click to expand...

To be more precise, we would lose the chance to kill at the highest odds. We would still have a chance to win.

-- Ravensfire