Still confused: Are power plants bugged or not?

Hi

Power Plants and how they work have been confusing me. I tested them once before and thought I had them figured out. That they worked like this--having ANY kind of power at all means 2 yucky faces from power. But coal plants give 4 yucky faces from power but would drop back down to 2 yucky faces if replaced by another type of plant or if you get three gorges running.

But another thread made me not so sure so I tested again with world builder. I don’t have any saves but I can say what I did so it should be repeatable if anyone feels like double checking. Don’t worry it takes long time to describe but only a few minutes to actually do hehe.

What I did:

I made a a quick game and just hit ok all the way through. I wasn’t paying attention just hitting ok but ended with 2 big continent map and the Romans. Not sure about things like game length or diff but that shouldn’t matter I don’t think.

I went into world builder and made 4 extra settlers and gave myself all technologies except for future tech.

I exited wb and then settled 5 cites.

Back in world builder I added coal and uranium in my borders and put mines on them and then hooked everything up with railroads and made sure there were rivers by them.

In two cities I put coal plants. In one city I put a hydro. In one I put a Nuke. I left the last two empty.

I exited wb and checked. The two coal cities now had 4 yucky faces from “power” not from bonuses or buildings or but power. (there were other yucky faces from things like population and flood plains but these never changed the whole time). The nuke and hydro plant cites had lightning bolts but NO “from power” yucky faces at all.

I went back in world builder and put factories in all the cities that had a plant and exited and checked again.

NOW they were also getting plus 1 yucky face from buildings (the factory) and 2 yucky faces “from bonuses“ (from having factory and access to coal). But the coal plant cities still had 4 “from power” yucky faces and the hydro and nuke cities had NO “from power” yuck faces at all.

The empty cities still were unchanged just yuck faces from pop and flood plains but nothing about power, buildings or bonuses.

I went back to world builder and in one city with a coal plant I plopped in a hydro plant.

I exited wb and checked that city. That city now had 2 yucky faces “from power” instead of 4 and everything else the same. All the other cities hadn’t changed.

I went back into world builder again and in one of the empty cities I dropped three gorges dam wonder in it and then exited.

The three gorge damn city now had a lightning bolt and now had plus 2 “from power” yucky faces. The city that had a coal plant replaced by a hydro is still just getting 2 “from power” yucky faces. The one city that still had a coal plant running now had dropped from 4 “power” yucky faces down to 2 yucky faces.
The city with the hydro only and the city with the nuke which up till now had NO “from power” yucky faces now have 2 yucky faces from power. The city that has been left empty now has a lightning bolt and is also now getting -2 yucky faces from power even though it is still TOTALLY empty. All other types of yucky faces are still the same.

So this lil test leads me to 3 big conclusions.

Coal plants cause 4 yucky faces from power but will drop down to 2 yucky faces if replaced by another type of plant or if you get three gorges.

Nuke and Hydro plants will run TOTALLY clean as long as they are the ONLY plants you put in your city and never put a coal plant in it first and never get three gorges.

Three Gorges will make EVERY city on continent powered and have 2 “from power yucky faces” no matter what. This means cities with coal plants running with 4 will drop to 2 BUT cities that had 0 including cities that didn’t even have ANY kind of power plant before will go UP to 2.

So I am kinda wondering is this a bug or did they mean to make it this way?

Kaytie

I second this conclusion. Seems like a bug to me.

I'm going to have to test this, but it sounds like a bug to me. Coal Plants are supposed to give 2 unhealthiness which is listed in the health rooster as "2 from power" so the Recycling center+Coal Plant=Free Power exploit isn't possible anymore. Hydro plants, Nuke Plants and the Three Gorges dam don't give any unhealthiness in any cities.

Very strange...

We allready tested in this thread. Simply put;
Coal Plants give +4
Replaced Coal Plants still give +2
3 Gorges gives every city on the continent a undocumented "feature" of +2

So once again, I second Kayties statement.

Actually they introduced 2 kinds of power:
power (regardless of source) gives 2
dirty power (aka coal plant) gives additional 2
another undocumented feature

Edit: hydro and nuclear plant should give 2 though

Look, the increased pollution was intentional. Previously, it was too easy for healthiness to be a non-issue. Now it matters!

Jaybe said:

Look, the increased pollution was intentional. Previously, it was too easy for healthiness to be a non-issue. Now it matters!

Click to expand...

Hi

I agree I THINK the intention was for ANY kind of power to cause plus yucky faces from power no matter what. BUT if that is the case the Hydro Plants and Nuke Plants arent working like planned. Since they WILL keep plus 2 yucky faces ONLY if you use em to replace an existing power plant in the city.

If you build em in a city that doesnt already have an existing coal plant then you wont have ANY yucky faces at all from power.

Form the way 3 gorges seems to work by putting 2 yucky faces from power everywhere and how coal plants seem to work by putting 4 yucky faces until replaced and then dropping down to 2 that yeah powered cities are meant to have at least 2 yucky faces.

So either fact that building hydro plants and nuke plants in cities give 0 yucky faces from power, as long as you never had a coal plant in the city before and never get three gorges later, is a glitch..

Or this some kind of weird feature to encourage ppl to hold off building coal plants if they think they can get a hydro or nuke plant going in that city later and to never want to get three gorges if they already have hydro plants and/or nuke plants going in cities that never had a coal plant.

And I am just confused on whitch is the case :/.

Kaytie

There's also problems with the Three Gorges Dam giving power on a continental basis, but sickness on a global basis here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236740

ori said:

Actually they introduced 2 kinds of power:
power (regardless of source) gives 2
dirty power (aka coal plant) gives additional 2
another undocumented feature

Edit: hydro and nuclear plant should give 2 though

Click to expand...

Jaybe said:

Look, the increased pollution was intentional. Previously, it was too easy for healthiness to be a non-issue. Now it matters!

Click to expand...

Might be so but you are both missing the point. The point is that there is an inconsistence issue. Ill make it even more simplified then.

This is from power only
Hydro Plant = 0
Nuclear Plant = 0
Coal Plant = 4
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 2

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on every continent gets 2

Three Gorges is obviously bugged.
Power Plants are more subtle but if "Power" is to give +2 why does this only happen when a Coal Plant is present? The way it is now it's more like Coal Plants give 2 permanent + 2 temporary and the other gives 0 unless replacing a Coal Plant where the Coal Plants "permanent" will stay.

skallben said:

This is yuck from power only
Hydro Plant = 0 yuck
Nuclear Plant = 0 yuck
Coal Plant = 4 yuck
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 2 yuck
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 2 yuck

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on every continent gets 2 yuck

Click to expand...

I think the yuck: form power should go like this:

Hydro Plant = 2
Nuclear Plant = 2
Coal Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 2

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on the same continent gets 2

And the additional from dirty power should be:

Hydro Plant = 0
Nuclear Plant = 0
Coal Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 0
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 0

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on the same continent gets 0

The total power should therefore be:

Hydro Plant = 2
Nuclear Plant = 2
Coal Plant = 4
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 2

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on the same continent gets 2

So, I think there is a bug indeed.

Didn't they have to relocate millions of people in China and destroyed hundreds of ecosystems due to the construction of the Three Gorges Dam?
Maybe they are representing that issue with the pollution

From Wikipedia:

Disadvantages from hydroelectricity:

• Environmental damage (disruption to surrounding aquatic ecosystems; change in the downstream and/or upstream river environment; negative impact on native and migratory birds);
• Greenhouse gas emissions (the reservoirs of hydroelectric power plants in tropical regions may produce substantial amounts of methane and carbon dioxide);
• Population relocation;
• Dam failures (while rare, are potentially serious).

So 2 from hydro against 4 from coal plant.

Again, people keep missing the point. We are adressing a game-mechanics inconsistency bug not reality. There are plenty of things in this game that has been adapted far from reality to fit the game-balance.

I mean doh, try unloading a few tonnage worth of bombs from some B-52s into central Paris without causing civiliain casualties or structural damage. See my point?

skallben said:

Again, people keep missing the point. We are adressing a game-mechanics inconsistency bug not reality. There are plenty of things in this game that has been adapted far from reality to fit the game-balance.

Click to expand...

Well, if you actually read my first post above, you can see that I totally agree with you in that there is a bug in this part of the game, so I'm certainly not missing the point. I want this bug patched, just as you want it too.

I just added some background information about the pollution caused by hydroelectricity because the inconsistency could exist at the level of cities that had coal plants and replaced them with hydros incorrectly displaying 2 instead of 0 (the same applying to the TGD).

I think that the information I have posted in my second post shows that the intention of the game designers was to associate hydro power with some , in this case 2 , and not the other way around.

Ah yes, I missed that post completely, I apologize for that. I took it out of context and misinterpreted it. Your description how it should work seems accurate to me.

jpboia said:

The total power should therefore be:

Hydro Plant = 2
Nuclear Plant = 2
Coal Plant = 4
Coal Plant replaced with Hydro Plant = 2
Coal Plant replaced with Nuclear Plant = 2

Three Gorges Dam = Every City you got on the same continent gets 2

So, I think there is a bug indeed.

Click to expand...

There's definitely an inconsistency here that needs to be addressed. Not sure which way it should go though. The civlopedia entries lead me to believe that we're still on the "old system." By that I mean that power from coal gives 2 and 0 from any other source. If you notice the coal plant civlopedia entry says power from coal (+2). The other power plants do not have the (+2) associated with their entries implying these power sources are "clean."