The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

Round 4: 70BC - 350AD

As most people recommended, the GE went to Edirne to rush the Great Library. So we made the trade with Genghis:



We could actually get Monotheism instead of Sailing for maximum beakers, but Sailing is much more useful for now, since both our first two cities are on the coast and could use lighthouses.

With Priesthood traded for, we researched Construction next for catapults to prepare for the war against Shaka.

Two turns later:



So far so good. We still have our eyes on the Janissary strategy. For that, we need to win the Liberalism race and GS's from the GL will be very helpful.

On the same turn, I realised that Shaka had become pleased with us thanks to the same faith bonus. I seized the chance to make a long-awaited tech trade:



So we still end up with Monotheism after all. And little does Shaka know that the cottages at Edirne will soon be ours again thanks to the GL's cultural push.

With Judaism relatively well-spread, I decided to revolt to Organised Religion to help with building production:



Once the OR bonus kicked in, I noticed that we could rush the Hanging Gardens in our capital immediately. That was a tempting option. We needed to be getting our troop production going again, as well as build necessary improvements in the capital, such as a lighthouse. Moreover, there's always the uncertainty of whether we can get the wonder before someone else does. I decided to do it, even at a pretty high cost:



And so the Hanging Gardens was built in our capital, adding to the GE points pool:



At least the additional 1 pop it gave to all our cities made the whipping less painful.

The still-jovial Shaka came and offered us a deal shortly after:



Since it was a reasonable deal, I took it.

Anyway, as suggested, we marched several of our units down to the barb city and captured it:



I decided to keep it as per the second option of the dotmap. The two cities are probably better than one in the long run. Unfortunately, I realised that Genghis had recently settled a city near our second city spot in the south:



Well, we can still settle a city there and fight a culture war with his city. Or we can eventually raze his city before we settle ours.

Several turns later, we received a rather disturbing message:



That means there is probably going to be a monster civilization out there. But, on the plus side, that might mean the other continent is too busy warring to tech and, ironically, the continent with the warmongers is actually the peaceful one. So far, anyway.

We finished researching Construction on the next turn and, as planned, we researched Code of Laws next so that we can build courthouses in cities newly acquired from Shaka, who has yet to declare his war. Maybe we will have to do it for him after all. We started whipping catapults out almost immediately anyway, just in case.

Next, the Khan came with an offer:



It was actually a pretty good one. But I was afraid that he might trade it to Shaka, so I turned it down. Eventually, though, Shaka researched Construction himself, so I went back to Genghis with the deal, but couldn't get as good an offer:



Oh, well. Better than nothing. Horse archers might prove useful against a now catapult-armed Shaka anyway.

And, indeed, the GL helped us win our cottages back:



As you can see, Edirne is taking a break from building units and starting on the NE in order to capitalise on the free scientists from the GL. We should aim to get as many scientists as possible before the GL expires. GEs will be more useful later in the game, as we have previously discussed.

Then we received more news from the other continent:



Not particularly advanced for Immortal AIs. So perhaps we are right to think that they've been too busy fighting.

We have not decided on what to do with the other southern city site, but I guessed that most of you would advocate settling it first anyway and dealing with the Mongolian city nearby later. In this light, I decided to build and whip the settler at the capital:



This is where I stopped playing. We have to make a crucial decision now, one concerning a favourite subject: War. Our troop strength at present:



And our power graph:



Shaka had not declared war as predicted but we may have enough or close to enough troops to invade. Should we attack first? Or, in light of Genghis' new city in the south, should we declare on the Khan instead? I'm inclined towards the former, since our long border with the Zulus and hence the proximity of their cities, along with their higher military strength, pose a greater security threat while presenting more strategic advantages to be gained from a successful war.

Also, we have just discovered CoL. I assume that we would be researching towards Education now, with winning the Liberalism race for Nationalism and researching Gunpowder as ends in mind. But what should we do about Currency? Trade for it, which might be difficult, or make a detour and research it ourselves? Here's the tech situation:



Both would give Monarchy and 100 gold for Code of Laws, but they would not give Currency, as expected. Should we get Monarchy, then? And, if so, from whom? Trade with Shaka because we might cripple him anyway, or trade with Genghis so as not to help Shaka's war economy?

And here are the maps of our whole continent:





Lastly, there's the question of the other city site near Sakae. Do we settle it now or wait till we've dealt with Khan's annoying new city?
 

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I suggest partially research both currency and Calendar (do more research on the later because CoL's value will diminish after trading the former tech) before going to libralism, you will lose the silk from shaka if DoW on him. currency is no doubt the most important tech right now.

after this trade, no more trade with Khan
 
Yes...don't forget it, that annoyin little tech that completes the horses into Horse-archers...but then again, its all in the name.:eek:

Tech Trading, I'm a big Tokie fan on this....ie I won't or can't seem to bring myself to trade. It hold me back, but so too the AI's.

Yeah Partially research the tech's, trade then CoL's, Since you've given away Alpha, the spies will be coming, might as well, give them something else to build.:mischief:

A few Flanking HA's...A catapult or 5, some nicely sharpend swords and a skull or 3 to crack...Sounds like Jolly good fun
 
Yeah Partially research the tech's, trade then CoL's, Since you've given away Alpha, the spies will be coming, might as well, give them something else to build.

Warlords :)

What's your attack plan against Shaka? uMge...Something -> Ulundi, or will you try to take his other cities first?
 
Go for shaka. Umung whatever is a great cottage city, with the floodplains. Plus it's better to deal with him now. Let Genghis deal with the jungle then kill him for the grassland.
 
Definitely do NOT attack Khan - you've got big, hardly defendable border with Shaka, the notorious warmonger. If he declares on you, how are you gonna stop him from pillaging all around your most important cities?

Kill Shaka. Though you probably won't be able to do it in one go - not with that kind of army - rather small methinks.
 
Seems like you need much more troops. War is inevitable, I'd suggest attacking mGuanguanawa (whatever!) and then the capital. Divided Zululand is should be easy target for Janissaries. Maybe it's time for heavy whipping now, 2-3 troops per city could make a difference?
 
Agree with the majority here, attacking Shaka should be up there on the list of things to do. You might want to consider settling those gems first though (if you can spare the hammers) before Temujin gets there, they are such a great resource.

Generally I find Temujin more reliable than Shaka, but then again I am very biased as the khan is one of my favourite characters (we're even on a first-name basis it seems :D). Still, when considering the borders and landscape it makes much more sense to go for Shaka next and keep trading with Temujin.
 
Definitely attack the Zulu as has been suggested. My question is, though, are you being super quick in army creation? By this point in time, you really need to watch out if any of the AI's get Feudalism (since Genghis and Shaka like each other, if one gets Feudalism, the other will get it soon from their own teching or trading).

Be quick in your army creation. You do not have that many units, so use the whip extensively (whip your cities so that by the time the war starts, your population is down by a lot but regrow your population after declaring, since you shouldn't need too much backup).
 
If you're building up your military now, strike fast. You don't want Shaka getting much farther than longbows (although it seems unlikely that you'll hit him before longbows, but I haven't checked the save, so perhaps I'm wrong). I don't think that taking Shaka's core cities will affect your economy that much, as the Ottoman nation is stretched pretty thin along the coast. Shaka's cities are pretty close to your own capital.

I'd fortify your southern cities with archers along with a few catapults and spears in case Genghis decides he wants to annex your relatively small nation.

I'm really anxious to see some Janissary action. Be quick and you'll be able to mop up Shaka and cripple Genghis with them... or maybe not? I've never played immortal.

Off-topic: I just read the Montezuma IMC, and what a masters' challenge it was! Really a great read! I must've been reading it for an hour.

Also, do you plan on getting BTS anytime, aelf? I don't think you'll find that you need to return to emperor, the AI techs much slower in BTS, which will make up for your lack of experience.
 
Round 5: 350AD - 650AD

A short round this time, mainly concerned with the proceedings of the war against Shaka.

Before that, I looked into sending our new settler to the southeastern city cite, by the gems. Unfortunately, upon closer examination of the area, I noticed this:



Alright, so the Khan has settled our spot, if a bit off, so we can't do anything with the settler now. I guess he just has to wait till the opportunity comes. This does give us the flexibility of choice if and when we capture Shaka's cities - the less optimal ones can be razed and quickly re-settled, if need be.

The next thing we researched was Archery. We've traded for HBR, so we might as well build some Horse Archers as a quick-response force during the war. The research only took two turns, after which we began researching Currency in the hopes of trading CoL to Khan for it after it had been partially researched.

Now, let's look at war preparations. I whipped a few more catapults and slow-built a spearman or two to supplement what we already had for the war. However, in the interest of time, so that we could get to Shaka's cities before he got longbowmen, I decided not to let our assembled forces wait:



One tile into Zululand, and our stack was beside the prime target, protected by rivers on two sides but not having to cross one to attack. That's quite excellent.

Unfortunately, bad news was to follow. Two turns later, while we were bombarding the city's defenses:



We were a bit too late. Good thing he only had one in the city. It fell easily enough, costing us one catapult and two CR axemen:



Then it was time to attempt the Currency trade (not foreign exchange) with Khan:



Indeed, he was willing to take it, throwing in some gold for good measure as well. It would be useful to help keep our research up in this time of war, on top of the bonus Currency gave to our economy. We researched CS next for Bureaucracy and chain farming and to take another step towards Liberalism.

Back to the front, I reinforced our stack with another catapult and an axeman that had already been built and tried to march on Shaka's capital. Despite having Feudalism, Shaka was a man of the sword, as you can see from the list of his defenders:



That effectively meant that we were able to go about with the invasion without experiencing high casualty rates, thereby sustaining our campaign. Excellent, indeed.

And Khan came in the nick of time, as WW was beginning to manifest itself, offering a trade:



Good friend Khan! Looks like he doesn't mind too much that we're pummelling his other buddy. Well, he might understand it very well himself...

On the same turn, our first GS was at Edirne thanks to the Great Library:



But there was a problem. Having researched IW, the option we have for lightbulbing is Compass instead of Philosophy. AFAIK, we have to research Compass before we finish researching CS if we want to lightbulb Philosophy instead of Paper.

The following turn, Shaka's capital fell:



Again, we did not suffer great losses. And we got a GG to boot:



Nicely enough, there was a chariot with Medic I (from fighting barbarians) in Ankara, and the GG was used to make it a Medic III warlord unit to help speed up our campaign.

Meanwhile, our stack marched on to our next target, the neighbouring city of Bulawayo, and captured it:



As you can see, we were indeed using horse archers in the war. There were a few attempts at incursions by the Zulus, which our speedy HAs were very effective in dealing with, although we also had to deal with a few Zulu HAs with spearmen. Speed is really a valuable asset that is often underestimated. One HA can perform the role of two units just because it can move to deal with an invading unit in time.

The round ends on this rather upbeat note. Shaka was willing to offer the usual terms of the defeated AI:



However, we might have an interest in continuing the war until we can capture another city or two at least, noting the inconvenience of annoying Genghis with each new DoW. Here's the situation at a glance:



Nobamba and kwaDuk look like major cities that we might want to liberate. We can leave the marginal northern cities for a vassalised Shaka and Nongoma (sp?) in the south for a later war. Or we can go for all the southern cities at once later. And there is the other alternative of capturing Nobamba now and then signing peace, which might be a good compromise. What do you think?

The tech situation:



Not much opportunity for trade at the moment, considering we have nothing on Genghis and Shaka hates us. The former beat us to CS, but I guess that is not something unexpected of an Immortal AI. At least, we are within a few turns of discovering it ourselves. Now, the question is should we discover Compass first?

IIRC, Philosophy is worth quite a bit more beaker-wise than Paper, not to mention giving us the choice of Pacifism to further boost the GL. So we might want to bulb it instead of the latter. I think we can do so if we research Compass before discovering CS, and clearly I lean towards doing this. But feel free to weigh in on this matter.

Here's the power graph:



Shaka remains up there despite the setbacks, while we have stagnated. I guess it's time to whip/build more troops, which we need to do if we want to continue the war anyway.

So, here we are. Two questions to answer right now, one regarding at which point we stop the war, and the other regarding which tech we should discover next.
 

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I'm no war expert, but I see no advantage to accepting a capitulation from Shaka later in the game. Vassals are mostly useful when they control a nice area of land, which Shaka will not since you just captured his core cities. I would personally destroy Shaka completely (probably in a second war). Feel free to correct me on something I may have missed.

I agree that you should take Nobamba and KwaDuk... well, that one. Shaka's southernmost city shouldn't cause a problem culturally, and can be left alone for the time being as you have suggested.

Pity about that Great Scientist. You could take philosophy and I agree that pacifism is a great addition to the library. However, you have stone, and you could make use out of a paper lightbulb and build the University of Sankore. Of course, this all depends on how long it will take to research compass. I'm not sure how plentiful your religious buildings are, but if you like that idea, you should prioritize them. While pacifism can wait, an AI might beat you in a wonder race. Something to consider, no? (I'm going to feel very stupid if it has already been built :lol:)
 
Don't make peace with shaka right now, self-research meditation. it looks like aelf haven't played civ4 for quite a long time and he forgot something to be the perfect. anyway, your war against shaka is really impressive, why there is no counter attack? this is immortal, right?
 
I think you should continue taking Zulu cities, but be sure to leave at least one, or Genghis won't trade techs with you anymore. Better research meditation yourself.
 
This thread isn't getting enough attention!

I think you should head straight for KwaDukuza and Nobamba. If there's cultural pressure, raze Nongoma too, I don't think it's a good site.

Also, whatever happened to the little stories you used to write into it? I really liked them.

I have no idea how worthwhile Jannisaries are, but I believe you want to try them out. Eh.
 
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