Mump5 - AWD Standard Pangaea - take 2

[Mumpulus]

Mump4 - AWD Standard Pangaea saw some good efforts, and we were able to hang on during the BC years. But with AI wars coming to an end, we were about to get overrun.

There was some discussion on the feasibility of using a non-agri civ on this level. The consensus was that it should be possible, but we'll still have to prove it some time in the future.

We all started looking for new starts, and Greebley found one as the Sumerians.

Originally Posted by Greebley

Here is a slightly different start. It has elephants so I was thinking of the Statue of Zeus and went for Masonry first - then for Warrior Code - we need some offense I realized.

Obviously the capitols growth is huge growing every 3 turns without a granary at +7 food. Shields are more the problem.

Another reason I liked this start is that we got 2 promotions to elite for our Enkidu.

Turn log:
3600 BC: met Carthage very early so built 4 Enkidu first. Very early GA of course. Survived 10-12 warriors and none since.
Aprox 2750 BC: Met Russia and have not been rushed yet.
Played 30 turns.

If we play this, my advice is to change the settler to an Archer and build one more (or two?) Enkidu as well before the settler. We have to not only have enough troops to defend our cities, but also have to worry about pillaging.

For tech we go for Alphabet, Mathematics and go for Zeus. Our capitol defends by building units (and settlers too) while the other city is working on the prebuild. Hopefully we build more cities to the north [b]Carthage attacks from straight south and Russia was observed to the east. They sent a spear to pillage but it moved back when I was defending a wheat and the elephants. They may send it back.

The idea of course is that even if we don't get Iron right away, an ancient cav army will help us to grab it. I think the odds of winning it may still be against us, but that is just simply true for AWD - especially Pangea. We also have early cats to handle the annoying Carthage UU.

It is the best start out of quite a number that I have gotten (though I have been unlucky I think).

MM note: Elephant irrigated in 2 so next turn we can move a citizen to it to get another 2 shields the turn after (rather than waiting until after it is irrigated that is).

> Greebley's Save <

Roster
Mumpulus - on deck
Own
Elephantium
Greebley - just played
glenmetz - up

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Bonne chance Mumpulus et vos amis!

[glenmetz]

I can't play tonight or tomorrow, and I think someone with better skills then I should play the next set. Sorry.

[Mumpulus]

Ok, I've got it for tonight then...

[Mumpulus]

I played 10 quick turns only. Our Golden Age has ended, we met another foe, killed a warrior with our first archer, founded a town, and are close to alphabet. We need some more workers and some more exploration.



> Save <

[Mumpulus]

Roster
Mumpulus - just played
Own - up
Elephantium - on deck
Greebley
glenmetz

[Own]

I'll play tonight. I don't got it yet, but I will soon.

[Own]

I didn't keep a turnlog. Nothing really happened. Alpha was researched so I went to maths next and we're still researching that. I built another worker and a settler and founded a new city. Not a single battle. And I met and declared on Japan.

There's a few things wrong with this game. One is the lack of shields. Even though I just founded a three cow city, there's nothing but desert to the south. Also we're cornered with four opponents and a numidian mercenary appearing, and the low chance of us having iron. And, wonder victory is on. That is also not good.

Here's the save:

[Elephantium]

I'll get this tomorrow or Saturday. As most of you are no doubt aware, I've been cutting back on SGs lately...I'd still like to take another try at AWD, though, so I'll stay in this one.

[Greebley]

IIRC, you have to build all wonders for wonder victory to matter. I think the odds of that making a difference is extremely small. We will dominate or die especially with Pangea.

BTW, AWD Pangea, we are actually slow to reach 4 enemies this game comparing to the other starts I tried. Contact happens very quickly for this variant and is one of the hardest things about finding a decent start.

Only if we get optimally shaped land mass would low contact rate be possible - a formation that has a natural choke.

Agree with the low shields. It may kill us in the end. I am hoping we have more than 2 workers by now.

[Own]

I think that wonder victory can kill you in the ancient age. Maybe I'm thinking of a conquest.

We have 3 workers, I built one during my set.

All right, so I'm agreed with going on. I'd almost rather have a longer front because we'd at least have room to expand.

[Greebley]

I think there is a possibility of another problem. I think AI respawn may have got set to on. Personally, I doubt that we will kill an AI before all land is filled, so it won't really matter, but we should be careful about this.

[Elephantium]

Preturn:

Despotism 0.9.1
25 gold, -1gpt
Math 4 turns.

Scary, we have 8 Enkidus and 1 Archer compared to 9 Warriors, 2 Spears, and one Numidian visible.

Switch citizens between Ur and Sumer; Ur was getting 6 spt, and it only needs 5 for 2-turn Enkidus and Workers.

IT: Enemy troops shuffle.

Turn 1 (1725 BC):

Feeling bold, I attack Russia's SoD with the archer. Scratch one spear 1-0.
Sci slider to 50%, Math still due in 1.

IT:

Math->IW
Ur: EW->Worker

Turn 2 (1700 BC):

Barbaric Mayan Warriors threaten Lagash. Our brave Enkidu Warriors respond and triumph! 3-0
No promotions, though
I risk our 3/4 archer because Russia threw a Spear on our forest, and we REALLY need the shields. We win, redlined 4-0.
eEW kills off one of the three Warriors in Russia's stack 5-0.
vEnkidu kills off another Russian warrior 6-0.

IT:

Scary. 7 Mayan Warriors appear out of the fog.

Turn 3 (1675 BC):

No guts, no glory!
EW kills Warrior 7-0.
EW dies vs. Warrior 7-1.
EW kills Warrior 8-1.
Set sci slider back up to 90%. IW now due in 7.

This will be a nail-biting


IT:

EW kills Japanese warrior at Lagash 9-1.
Mayans move 4 Warriors next to Ur.
Ur: Worker->EW

Turn 4 (1650 BC):

At Ur:
EWs kill two Mayan Warriors 11-1.
EW kills Warrior at Kish 12-1.

IT:

Mayan Warrior suicides vs. EW in Ur 13-1.
Kish: EW->EW
Japanese start ToA.

Turn 5 (1625 BC):

Archer kills Warrior 14-1.

IT:

Two Mayan Warriors die at Ur 16-1.
Ur: EW->EW
Lagash: Rax->Archer

Turn 6 (1600 BC):

EW kills Mayan Warrior 17-1.

IT:

We see the first Carthaginian Horseman.
Carthage loses two Numidians and an archer against our EWs where we just killed the Mayan Warrior! 20-1.
Maya loses one more 21-1.
Ur gets disease.

Turn 7 (1575 BC):

Japan has a lot of Warriors near Kish, so I attack one. We win, redlined 22-1.
Archer kills Russian Warrior on our forest, 23-1.
Lose an elite EW trying to kill the archer. 23-2.
Kill the archer with an EW 24-2.

Lux slider to 20% because I attacked with one of Sumer's MPs.

Ugh, we're going to lose a unit on the...

IT:

Carthage kills an EW 24-3.
Maya completes the Pyramids.

Turn 8 (1550 BC):

Lose the Archer to the Horseman 24-4.

IT:

Mayan troops keep swarming our lands near Lagash.
Ur: EW->EW

Turn 9 (1525 BC):

Kill another Mayan Warrior (25-4), and this happens:


I build an army, of course. I just hope we can hold out until we can fill it with Ancient Cavs.

IT:

Two Mayans die on the outskirts of Lagash, promoting the rEW there. 27-4.
Kish: EW->Cat

Turn 10 (1500 BC):

EW kills Mayan Warrior 28-4.
rEW kills Mayan Warrior and promotes, 29-4.
eEW kills Mayan Warrior 30-4.

Sci slider to 10, IW due in 1.



Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/upload...mp5_1500BC.SAV

[Mumpulus]

Roster
Mumpulus
Own
Elephantium - just played
Greebley - up
glenmetz - on deck

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

[Greebley]

I played 3 turns and we lost the statue of Zeus. We also have no Iron. With so few shields in addition, I think this game is not going to go anywhere and there is little point in playing it to its loss. This game has no advantages. We haven't even been able to use our high food to its advantage with a measily 4 towns - we were working a 0 food desert square for shields instead of the 7 food flood plains.

Edit: we also have only 10 Enkidu and no Archers at start.

If there is consensus to continue I can, but I am willing to lay odds noone wants to beat this dead horse anymore.

[ThERat]

lurkers comment:
AWD on pangaea is a monster. Have a look at the successful attempt last time and you must know that the start was awesome with a very fast expansion (I don't know how Obermot did it, but it was breath taking).

If you want to beat this, you gotta have a far better start. And flawless play.

[Own]

Yeah, if Greebley doesn't make significant progress in these ten turns, the game is probably over, and we gotta whip out mapfinder and find cows. Rivers, cows, BGs, hills and a corner spot is what's necessary.

[Mumpulus]

Yes, no need to continue a clear early loss. We're back to finding a start

[Elephantium]

I have a few options:

1.


2.


3.


4.


Thoughts?