Deity Challenge 3 - Monty the Ultimate Diplomat

ABigCivFan

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I just started a new game this week with Monty and it turned out to be one of the most "politically" intrigue game. Just like most other Deity games, you will be severely limited by land size, and sandwitched by different powerful religious factions.

You will need to fully utilize Monty's "other" trait to survive the early game. (potentially multiple state religion switch, frequent civics switch for diplo considerations; very careful trades + resist the urge to trade good techs so that you dont suffer diplo penalties with more powerful AIs; and later very carefully and strategically planned cross-bribes; Espioage and etc..).

I d like to invite everyone who might be interested to try this out, you will have a blast with this one. Please feel free to share your thoughts in the spoiler tags.

Settings:

Deity/Fractal/Standard Size/Normal speed/Random AI civs

Human: Monty

 
The rules are diplo win/no war expansion? Or is anything allowed? Capital looks sweet btw. ;)
 
That's a beautiful capital, if only there is stone nearby it might be the perfect capital.
 
The rules are diplo win/no war expansion? Or is anything allowed? Capital looks sweet btw. ;)

Hello Burn, welcome, no rules as usual. Be a coward, a jerk or a backstabber; do anything to win. Yes, capital has great potential to become a super cottage + production city taking advantage of early Civil Service.

@tycoonist

Yes Barbs are strong in this game, i built like ~6 archers before my first settler. Without these archers you will not be able to protect your vital improvements.

@rolo
yes, spiritual indeed. This trait is extremely helpful in tight situiations in the early phase of a deity game. You have the flexibility to play along the religious factor, adapt someone's favorite civics/state religion for some turns just to be able to trade techs/bribe/reduce the chance being attacked; cheap AP temples. And more importantly you can easily switch between Slavery and Caste to whip and grow GS needed for Philo/Edu bulb+Academy. Definitly one of the top traits.
 
Finish one game then someone posts another game I feel I have to play. ;)
Deity is way out of my comfort zone but the capital should help. Have to see how early I can get CS.

Thats if I survive that long of course . :lol:

Bit of a clue that early Archery might be required. ;)
 
I thought about where to settle, seemed to me there are 2 choices:

1. settle in place, lots of floods and hills pretty obvious

2. 1 South, gain 3 more river tiles, 1 less :yuck: from floods, allow access to the southwest corner flood tile; allowing 2nd city to use the northern floods, and blue circle to the south indicate another possible food source in the south besides the sheep. But it burns a flood tile.
 
Stone? Bit of a builder, aren't you. Seems like a bad idea for deity.
 
Hello Burn, welcome, no rules as usual. Be a coward, a jerk or a backstabber; do anything to win. Yes, capital has great potential to become a super cottage + production city taking advantage of early Civil Service.

@tycoonist

Yes Barbs are strong in this game, i built like ~6 archers before my first settler. Without these archers you will not be able to protect your vital improvements.

@rolo
yes, spiritual indeed. This trait is extremely helpful in tight situiations in the early phase of a deity game. You have the flexibility to play along the religious factor, adapt someone's favorite civics/state religion for some turns just to be able to trade techs/bribe/reduce the chance being attacked; cheap AP temples. And more importantly you can easily switch between Slavery and Caste to whip and grow GS needed for Philo/Edu bulb+Academy. Definitly one of the top traits.

I was thinking playing Monty on deity with diplo rules .. no way I will start that. But since there's no rules to follow I will definitely give it a try.

Judging on your comment about barbs, I'm going to assume there is quite some room for peaceful expansion/blocking? :p

Edit: I think the main problem of this capital will be health, it'd probably be wise to save a forests for a while.
 
2000 BC

Spoiler :


Map:



After bloody Barb busting, i have some good Comb1+Cover archers to protect capital and new settlers. Kublai is directly to my East, West is wide open. So now the race to claim all those resources to the East is on.

Got those cottages up ASAP, at happy cap, with good archer protection, now focusing on setter/worker production. Aiming for GL in Capital.

where would you settler? here is my dot map based on my priorities.

Spoiler :


spot 1. claims copper/deer/plenty of food and hammers. Production city, potentially HE city.

Spot 2. claims 3 furs + 1 silver; it won't grow much but after trades this city = 4 resources for the empire. Very high priority to claim before KK.

in the mean time will send archer to explore NorthEast for other suitable city spots which will help block everyone from the East.

Spot 3. Wheat/Fish/Floods/Oasis, potential part-time GP farm + Globle Draft city

Spot 4. Fish+Stone+Hills+floods+8 watertile Moai Status city, naval city+potential HE city.

More city spots to the West...






 
1200 BC

Spoiler :


First 2 satelite cities settled as planned.

See some old friends and some new faces, all will be strong contenders. MM is also to the East, Han and Suleiman seem from West since their scouts are heading East. Issy not sure.

Feeling the pressure from KK, will try to settle city 4 to claim at least 1 Ivory. AI's value these phants highly. Also use this city to help block of KK.

By 2000BC, Henge, GWall, and Oracle were all built, so can delay stone city for a bit. Now just focusing on worker/Settler production and land grab.

Tech wise going the GL route as usual.



 
500BC

Spoiler :


KK is my strong neighbour, now our top priority is to suck up to him so he does not kill our puny nation. So i switched to his (and MM's) Christian religion the first chance I got. and Switched to OR+HR. It was great timing to apply the 25% prod bonus to GL. 2nd prod city buildig Jags as happy police.



Capital, 2 turns to finish GL, has 3 villages already.




KK is Cautious, MM is pleased. We hold off on trading away Literature until GL built.




Favorite civics, KK likes Beauracracy, next research priority is COL/CS. HR is Sul's favor.




So the plan for now is befriend KK and MM pretending to be a faithful Christian, the goal is to get KK friendly/Bribable And MM friendly so we can whore tech with him for as long as possible.

After GL, will build more settler/worker to claim more land to the West. And Use capital as a part-time GP farm to get those 3-4 GS needed for Liberalism. This capital is perfect for swicthing between GP farm/Wonder production roles.

 
Its great to read the deity games and get some nicely summarised insight into the sort of thinking involved. Would you envisage any jag rushes here, or is the focus simply to expand and cut off the other opponents?
 
Its great to read the deity games and get some nicely summarised insight into the sort of thinking involved. Would you envisage any jag rushes here, or is the focus simply to expand and cut off the other opponents?

jag rush on deity would be suicide. i'd rather rush with axes.
 
Haha, "happy police".

Your capital is phenomenal, certainly looks like it was a good idea to move 1S for corn and two mines (did you know about them already or was it great luck?).

I'm curious though, why didn't you build Teotihuacan 1E? The net (or is that "gross"?) difference being that you lose one non-irrigated grassland and gain two irrigated plains, an irrigated plains hill and a tundra hill. Was it because of distance maintainance? Fear of Mongol culture? It certainly can't be to work the flood plains immediately, because they were already claimed by the capital's culture...
 
Decided to have a go – 375 BC:
Spoiler :

First thing that popped into my head given the high commerce and production start was axe rush, but having Kublai as the only close neighbour is just evil. He’s high on my list of least favourite AIs to rush. I have a look around and notice the stone and a huge amount of territory. Being able to settle several cities shouldn’t be a problem here so I decide to make a run for the Pyramids – I can afford a little slower earlygame.

Made archers while growing and tried to optimise my build order for as fast as possible Pyramids while still having defence. I pre-chopped some forests while waiting for the settler to enable the stone and made a 2nd worker in the capital for faster chopping. The Oracle went at turn 35 or something this game, at the same time as the Stonehenge(!) :D

I Finished the Pyramids at 1400 BC. Note those 2 archers protecting our important improvements from barbarians.



1240 BC – HE unlocked:



Another good reason for the Pyramids is that we have no marble, thus the Great Library could be hard to get. With this in mind I avoided running too many scientists and in 500 BC we spawn a GE which rushes the GL for us.




Some trades for spare change:



The tech pace is really fast this game--2 civs having currency already.



Further plans: settle westwards. Mansa Musa finally sent a confucian missionary to me so maybe I should adapt that religion to befriend him and Kublai. The downside is that we're sandwiched between everyone so bad diplomacy can be the doom of the aztec people. Pacifism is still too good to pass up on though, so I will probably adopt Confucianism - if only for a little while.

Hannibal already founded Taoism (450 BC) but I will bulb philosophy regardless.

Really an amazing mix of AIs for a random game. Got the techer, the zealot, the aggressor and a wonder-dude. This will be tough.

Izzy has enough on her hands (will probably attack Kublai) and HC too (don't know what he's up to but at least he's nowhere near me).

 

Attachments

Would you envisage any jag rushes here, or is the focus simply to expand and cut off the other opponents?

No rush. Actually I was doing everything i could so that i dont get rushed myself.

Spoiler :

I put all my espionage pts on KK, and his power curve towers me. The chance of fighting a successful pre-rifle war for human on deity is quite low.


I built Jags for happy police instead of Axe simply because they get 2 free promotions. They probably would not see any action except against barbs.

@Munch

Yes the starting location is worth a debate. I gave the reason for both locations, but end up go for 1 south to optimize number of river tiles (commerce, later hammers from levee), reduce :yuck:, and leaving enough floods for another good city.

@Rusten
Spoiler :

Wow, pyramid is a bold move. The only down side i see is it delayed you expansion to the East where KK is gobbling up the lands there. Do you plan to hurry to claim those Furs/silver? that spot is too good to pass on. Also see you building Shadwa Paya, i would pass on this wonder and crank out some settlers. But maybe you are only building it while you are growing your population in Capital.
 
@Rusten
Spoiler :

Wow, pyramid is a bold move. The only down side i see is it delayed you expansion to the East where KK is gobbling up the lands there. Do you plan to hurry to claim those Furs/silver? that spot is too good to pass on. Also see you building Shadwa Paya, i would pass on this wonder and crank out some settlers. But maybe you are only building it while you are growing your population in Capital.

Spoiler :
Your take on the S. Paya is correct; I was just building it temporarily for cash (got the resource for it), not to finish it. I'm stopping where it's at now and will go ahead with settlers because currency/CoL is coming up; the new cities will be of benefit right away.

Got a settler with eta 1 at the point of the save - that one will go for furs/silver/iron. It's a horsehockey city output-wise, but gaining all of those resources makes it excellent regardless. I can sell the surplus ones for huge amounts of gold per turn. I don't mind giving Kublai space tbh, because if he settles around me I won't border Izzy (she won't like me when I adopt a religion). Kublai will provide a very neat safe-zone east/north as long as I get him to like me. Then I can focus most of my efforts on Suleiman and the other western civs.
 
500 BC -> 520 AD
Spoiler :
These AIs sure are annoying. I've lost track of how many times I've gotten asked for techs or other requests. Here's an example; Izzy demanded something twice in 4 turns.

mdg%2310000.JPG


Regardless it seems I played my cards right because here I am at 520 AD all safe. Several pleased and nobody's got their hands full (except those already at war). KK has been warring with Izzy up until shortly as expected and Suleiman with Hannibal.

Happy about my game so far. I'm at a point where I have several options, but I decided to go for cuirassiers and drafted muskets as some AIs are a little behind in techs (ETA 11 on MT). I should be able to wipe out or vassal someone soon. I'm thinking of attacking Izzy as she has a shrine and the AP. If I get rid of her I'll only have to worry about 1 front.

Got liberalism at ~400 AD and picked Nationalism. Tenochtitlan is currently getting the Taj Mahal while doing the last remaining techs and Teotihuacan is 2 turns away from Moai Statues. I will queue up HE afterwards. Teotihuacan will be an excellent production city. It will be able to amass a great number of cuirassiers.

I should be able to win this unless something unexpected occurs, I'm in a very good position and I doubt Izzy will be able to stop my planned attack. I also managed to grab all 3 granary resources (rice, wheat and corn) in addition to all three sources of seafood (clam, crab and fish) so health won't be much of an issue. Currently sitting at 8 cities, but most of them are small still. Unfortunately I got to the furs/silver/iron city 2 turns too late. Kublai's culture expanded and I could no longer put a city there. Very uncool, I should've been faster. Settled a city there anyway (iron+silver).

Will probably delay playing further for a little while, got a game in another thread as well, but we'll see, I'm really looking forward to the continuation.

mdg+%2330000.JPG


 

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