NC VIII - De Gaulle!

Bleys

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Its that time again, time for another edition of the Nobles Club. This round, we feature a very flexible leader who can win many different ways, Charles De Gaulle!



He has very solid traits that offer a variety of victory conditions and styles. IND for those Wonder Spammer types, or even a WE/SSE. CHA is one of the true top-tier traits, strong at every level from Noble to Deity, early happiness combined with its militaristic component. The French have strong Uniques as well, here they are:



His UU, a 2-move Musket, is one of the best pillaging units in the game. So hard to dislodge, yet strong enough to attack, and fast enough to get to the front lines quickly. The French are one of those Civs that I tend to go into Nationalism and draft pre-Rifles.

The UB combines science with culture. Added to De Gaulles IND trait, the possibilities are numerous. Cultural wins are always possible with the French, and the Artist is especially strong for an SE, which is always possible with an IND leader:



And finally, the start. I am going to offer this early tip, the map is Pangaea, with Natural Shoreline (meaning there are likely to be small islands off the coasts). Stone in the BFC offers a multitude of potential for some of the strongest Wonders in the game. Lots of forests as well, but remember, its Pangaea, and you are likely to be surrounded by opponents who are close on all sides. Choose well!



And now for the copy and pasted standard monthly rundown:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats dont fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Once again, special recognition goes out to r_rolo1, our Map Maker, who sets these up for us (so I can play without peeking, heh, the WB needs to be modified) and also to Krick19, who came up with the idea of running a series like this for the less confident players. It is our goal to get folks to play and post without feeling self-conscious about being a "n00b" or asking dumb things. There are NO stupid questions! Learning this game is a process, not an event.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC VIII - De Gaulle".This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick Warlord to Marathon Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
 

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For an industrious leader the capitol is ridiculously strong. Even as someone who prefers warmongering this start leads me to a couple wonders...THEN attack ;).
 
Its a bit of a gamble but I'd consider losing a turn and settling on top of the stone, still get freshwater from the lake and cows in first ring. Don't know what's to the north but that's what makes it a gamble.
 
Hi

hehe wow industrious leader, stone in bfc, starting on what looks like plains hill, SIX other minable hills, 2 food sorces one of which is cows..GEE ya think nebody will be wonderwhoring this game? hehe.

The ONLY thing thats scary bout start like that is when RNG gives a start THAT great it usually cuz ALL the land around it for tiles and tiles is TOTALLY sucky. But I will keep my fingers cross :)

Kaytie
 
Heh, a great start indeed, but if you look close, theres very little commerce there, so teching will be slow. There is also no monster food tiles, so growth will be hampered a bit. Personally, being a hammer oriented guy, I love this start. I may put the HE in my Cap for the first time in a WHILE, since its not going to be a commerce monster, but HE + Bureaucracy can crank out some units.

Love the AIs we are facing too, EXCELLENT job rolo, I bet you opened this up and went "Wow, this will be interesting" LOL. I am playing it now, its a blast so far. Who will be able to resist the Wonders and focus on military or expansion? Not me, heh!
 
Okay so the capital is going to have a bunch of hammers :lol:
Starting now at Emperor/Normal (I'll probably lose, still don't have emperor down...)
 
Love the AIs we are facing too, EXCELLENT job rolo, I bet you opened this up and went "Wow, this will be interesting" LOL. I am playing it now, its a blast so far. Who will be able to resist the Wonders and focus on military or expansion? Not me, heh!

It was my first start..... saved it ( after a "Wow, this can be interesting" reaction :p ) and generated some more saves ( have some interesting maps in store ;) ). But this one has a nice land layout and a "interesting" choice of civs......
 
Played to 1640 BC, Emperor/Normal

Spoiler :

Settled 1E at loss of a couple plains hills but with slightly more food.
Got some nice hut pops (100 gold, 64 gold, pottery)
Built Stonehenge and the Great Wall so far, settled 2 cities.
Tech was AH -> Mysticism -> Masonry -> Pottery (hut) -> Mining -> BW -> Writing (partial)
while building:
Worker -> Warrior -> Stonehenge -> Settler -> Great Wall -> Settler -> Warrior -> Worker/'Mids (both partial, chops => 'mids, base hammers => worker)
Met all AIs, I see that Darius has gold in the BFC, so he'll be the first war target at jumbos/cats probably.
Going to shoot for a couple more wonders, including the Hanging Gardens and the Great Library (probably SoZ in a different city so there's no artist pollution for now) and will beeline for CS and Bureaucracy (tech along Math -> Construction -> CoL -> Trade for HBR and backfill others) oh.. and.. um.. i need more workers, lots more workers.. :lol:
Here's my land:


I'm going to wait for some advice on how I should continue (how does my plan look? and any corrections would help) even though I want to keep playing :p
 
Emperor/Epic

1000 BC

Spoiler :
4000 settled in place
3975 popped pottery from hut :lol:.
3850 tundra/deer resource to north indicates we are on northern part of map
3550 first worker, starting on next worker. Met darius. 18 turns on BW
3050 going for masonry then mysticism. 2nd worker out, going settler
2675 settle 2nd city on plains hill south of paris. Rare blue dot agreement.
2325 stonehenge complete
1950 great wall completed in orleans
1925 herb event. Going for +2
1550 lyons founded to grab elephants and rice (once ironworking is available)
1350 whip a library and start on Mids for some $$$
1275 hannible sends a missionary to give us buddhism, which we adopt
1000 I mess up and don't get a prophet, instead popping a spy. Well, EP it is. Settling him in Paris.
 
Bleys,
In several threads I've seen screenshots similar to yours where the terrain just looks awesome in terms of graphics. Is it a mod that makes your terrain look the way it does or just the graphic settings in Civ IV. I want mine to look like that. I have a pretty good graphics card, so I was just curious as i'm sure my system can handle it. Sorry it is off-topic to your thread.
 
Emperor/Epic

535 AD

Spoiler :

525 aesthetics to darius for IW and meditation
470 pyramids completed, revolt to rep
455 aesthetics to willem for alphabet
290 Rheims settled to pick up rice and block darius off. Darius seems to be the target once I have Wellies
275 ANOTHER Gspy pop wow lol. Might have to use a spy siege game. Settled for beakers
260 BC HBR to darius for mathe and priesthood
185 sury declares on liz, one of the few non-buddhists (willem is the other, being hindu
170 bc hannibal declares on liz
10 ad Darius culture bombs sardis, causing tons of my tiles to flip He's tech leader so this might get hard.
85 ad aesthetics to suleiman for monarchy
355 DoW Darius

430 fortuitous greed quest gives me 4 random horse archers. Score
460 feudalism and 35 gold to willem for machinery
535 feudalism to sury for theology. Darius is reeling from war, he dragged ottomans in but they are not doing anything.



 
Emperor/Epic

1200 ad
Spoiler :

610 ad ottomans give me 60 gold for peace. England gives me 30

670 ad anticipation of AP forcing peace between myself and darius prompts me to take literature, 3 gpt, and a world map for peace just after capture of the persian capitol.
860 another DoW on darius. Building wealth in capitol to avoid strike until city capture. He must have bribed ottomans in again. Sury comes after me too, he must have fallen to pleased
940 ad capture tarsus, persia had 4 workers there.
950 ad kill a khmer horse archer and negotiate peace. He wanted my city of lyons, but was willing to take 50 gold instead :lol:.
1030 AP forces peace again
1080 Dutch declares on Sury. Ottomans jump to the aid of khmer
1120 AD 3rd war on Darius
1140 take a persian city and worker
1180 AD I have all of darius' original land, he capitulates
1190 guilds to ottomans for CS and 200 gold
1200






I'm not even sniffing liberalism. I'm trying to inch into gunpowder so that I can get the pinch promo for my knights. Since the world has been warring with superpower willem, I'm going to build up a little bit on the east of my borders, make a few knights and lots of trebs, and then move in with droves of knights, crossbows, elephants, and trebs. Recently revolted into caste and theocracy. Civics are representation, vassalage, caste, default, theocracy. I'm going medieval to win this one ;).

I don't control the AP and probably won't while it could still be relevant. Depending on how far I can cut into willem (who has vassaled lizzy, but persia should wall me from her), I might be able to push my way deep towards a domination or conquest.


By the way guys, I don't have as many screen shots for this game as normal but I do have them. I'll post them later as I'm doing the game summaries live.
 
Sign me up for Prince -- and if I lose this one I'd better drop down to Noble again. Or maybe even Settler. :)
 
Immortal normal... I am going to settle on the stone.. Always fun to play from stone and with stonehenge + great wall it will prolly go rather ok...
 
Prince/Normal 187 Turns

Spoiler :


I wrote these down as I was playing, so forgive their somewhat jumpy nature.





Hmmm . . . coast and tundra to the north?

Tech path Animal Husbandry-Mysticism-Masonry. Try a religious game with lots of settled Great Prophets.

Turn 12: Got AH same time as my worker finished. Will be building warriors while researching Mysticism. Go go Stonehenge!

Turn 21: Wow, Darius and Elizabeth. One is Hindu and the other is Buddhist. Maybe I should stay out of their respective ways and let them kill each other? :)

Turn 22: Ugh. Darius has gold. He’ll be a tech monster.

Turn 25: AND Hannibal?!?!?!?

Turn 29: Got Masonry. Cows and Sheep Pasturized and roaded, road on the Stone and Quarry starting. Stonehenge will finish before I get the quarry established, thanks to Industrious. I’ll likely build a Settler before starting on the Great Wall for both the Barb defense and little bit of a Power Graph boost.

Turn 32: Stonehenge built; Settler started. I have two Warriors exploring and one garrisoning.



Comment: My second city grabbed the Horses for me so I could make chariots. I also had some vague plans about sticking the Maoi Statues there, but didn't end up getting around to it. I'm thinking of sticking a city one north of the deer and putting the Maoi Statues there.

Turn 44: Great Wall

Turn 60: The Pyramids; switch to Rep in anticipation of settled Great People; start on Temple of Artemis; will finish researching Priesthood in two turns.

Turn 62: Great Spy. Settled.

Turn 69: Founded Judaism. Writing so I can potentially Oracle Theology is next. After that, I should really research Mining/Bronze Working/Iron Working. :)

Turn 77: Temple of Artemis. Judaism has spread in Paris, but I’m not converting until I have the military to withstand my non-Jewish neighbors.



In retrospect, this wasn't too high priority a location. It grabbed some resources, but doesn't have an overwhelming amount of food.

Turn 84: Completed the Oracle, taking Theology. Will convert to Judaism and start the Apostolic Palace once I’ve built a respectable army. In the meantime, there’s always the Hagia Sophia.

Turn 86: Great Engineer. Settled.



The first of two cities to make sure Darius wasn't breathing down the doorstep of my capital. The other went a little to the south of this one.

Turn 92: Woohoo! Iron near Paris! Now Alphabet for tech trading and then Code of Laws for the Chicken Itcher.

Turn 101: Hagia Sophia. This should be useful, as I’m currently a little pathetic in the Worker department.

Turn 108: Another Great Spy. Settled.

Turn 123: Chichen Itza. I’m Christian and starting on the Apostolic Palace with Organized Religion.

Turn 132 Apostolic Palace Finished. Paper almost done. Time to build a temple and a Monastery in Paris.

Turn 135: Great Prophet. Shrining Christianity.



Three turns to build the Statue of Zeus. That's pretty neat. :)



I don't regret being late to Aesthetics, the Hammers from the Apostolic Palace are brilliant. On the other hand, the six turns worried me with good reason, as it turned out:

Turn 154: Missed the Great Library by one turn. Starting on the Parthenon.

Turn 158: Great Merchant in Paris.

Turn 159: Got Music. Going for Divine Right and the Spiral Minaret. Then I’ll probably turn my attention to Civil Service and Machinery. After that, Liberalism tech path.

Turn 161: Got the Parthenon. Trying for the Sistine, next.

Turn 175: Great Engineer. Settled.

Turn 176: Founded Islam.

Turn 183: Just got Civil Service. Switching to Bureaucracy. My capital will then start putting out troops. I’m an idiot and just hit “change immediately” when I should have also changed Civics to Theocracy. Oh, well. Darius is Hindu and nobody else is, so I think I can build a larger army than him while remaining economically okay. Spiral Minaret is one turn from completion. Hopefully I won’t destroy myself by warring when I play next.


 
Prince EPIC 4000 BC - 1070 AD

Spoiler :


stone and industrious :mischief: That got me: Stonehenge, Great Wall, Pyramids and Hanging Gardens. I missed out on the Aesthaetics wonder to mostly Suleiman. Idem for MoM, but I got the Great Lib!

Ok, I settled 1E. Why? because it just pisses me off when we start next to a lake, but not on a river. Didn't loose anything big either, except one less forrest to chop. who cares, I'm indistrious and got stone!

1st city went to the east, on the river to claim 2fp's, wheat and horses. Potentially a GP farm but too many plains, and a lot of GP will pop in the capital anyway.
2nd city to the west to harass Darius, at corn/cow. With Stonehenge, that blocked him off pretty bad so he decided to settle a city all the way tio the east of my empire!! Good for me, as he roaded a lot of my lands.


You can see his workers roading it all the way :goodjob: . You can also see Rice/Spices/Gems city, good commerce potential. I settled the ellies, and a horse banana city too.

Diplo wise, everyone was hindu, except poor Lizzy. I figured I could take her lands with noone defending her, so i started building an army. However my plans had to speed up as Suleiman Dowed on her, soon enough followed by Willy. I was worried to loose on London so...

War dragged on as I had a small stack, and eventually I vassalised her instead of kill kill kill.

I got a chance to build the AP, so I did it, should've switched to judaism the turn before completion but I forgot :lol: so it's hindu, and I had no chance as Willy, Hannibal and Suleiman all voted for one of them (forgot which one). "The Thing" voted for me, though. I'm building loads of missionaries right now. Darius is Confu, but has one hindu city (he abstained).

The Lands:



Here we are now, 1070 AD. The dark ages indeed. What do I do?

Plan A is to tech up to lib, unlock the super-musket and take over Darius. With sizeable land and good diplo we should be able to reach the stars.
Plan B would B an AP victory. I'm going to convert all my cities and see what that gets me. Also not converting any of Izzys as long as I'm not in the chair (bribe her to theo?)
 
Emperor/Epic

1600 AD

Spoiler :
1210 Liz renounces the protection of Willem :lol:. Death wish.
1285 We have declared war on liz for diplo points with hannibal. However, our target remains the dutch. Maybe the Persians will do something to liz, but really I just need them to block her and that they'll do regardless.

1295 Captured first Dutch city.
1315 hanny gets liberalism AND sury proves world is round. Good jub sury.
1325 next dutch city falls
1330 sury redeclares on dutch
1340 Large stack of pikes from willem (not really, but I want to keep my Wellies and low losses), sailing, world map, and 200 gold for peace. Attention turns on liz, who deadlocked with my vassal darius. Note: I'm largest empire in the world after vulturing the two dutch cities ;). After last GG in Paris, I can now make knights with FOUR promos. Hot.
1345 gunpowder to sury for music, drama, calendar
1375 take london
1385 Sury and willem make peace
1405 coventry taken

1415 resolution passes for entire world to dogpile liz, ottomans take a dutch city
1430 Take Nottingham
1435 Sury takes hastings, English civ wiped out forever. Gearing up with musketeers, teching chemistry (3 turns left at a sad 128 bpt), then going for the gren/cannon route. Will continue to use wellies (elephants are mini-praetorians as far as I'm concerned) for stack protection along with knights and muskets. First going to put up some markets/grocers to pay the bills though...the slider is losing 5 gpt at 10%
1485 Ottomans call an AP diplo win vote! Idiot, I have enough votes to block him by myself.
1515 Just to put things in perspective, I just teched paper :lol:

1520 Dutch city captured.
1525 Wiped out about 8 dutch counterattack units. Chemistry to ottomans for 150 gold and Printing Press. Chemistry and 385 gold to hannibal for education.
1535 Ottomans make peace with dutch.
1555 Ottomans declare on ME, who is in the same religion and was mutual war buddies. WHY? After taking peace, he VOLUNTARILY vassals to the dutch...I take another dutch city, this one pop 17. Each city I take now will be serious damage to the netherlands!
1575 Noticed a key Dutch SoD healing in a nearby city (thanks EP from earlygame spies!). Took damage to a counter attack but only lost a handful of units cutting it down. Another Dutch city falls. Great Prophet pops. Long ago I'd captured a christian holy city off of darius so I'll shrine that and spread it for gold.
1580 Shredded 8 more Dutch units, lost 2. Who doesn't love wars at parity?! Combat IV knights sure help though. 7 turns on nationalism, then we go military tradition for even more nonsense :). Muskets protect the stack otherwise
1590 Ottomans have a stack of cavalry and trebs headed my way :(. I can see thanks to EP owning the dutch EP production.
1595 Stack hits and kills most of my elephants in one of my forward attack stacks. Newly produced knights charge over there and annihilate all but 1 cavalry (flanking the trebs to death). A musketeer cleans the last cavalry up. So much for tech deficit problems. Once the war ends I'll make it a point to steal replaceable parts and rifling from somebody, I'd imagine massed combat IV cavalry will last me a while.




1600 AD summary:

I have 35% of worlds land and pop. I am behind in techs - actually willem is researching physics as I am taking nationalism. However, I'm marching on what will be the 4th city he has lost to me. Sury just recently jumped back up to friendly, and he is also friendly with my vassal darius. Actually, this puts him liking me most now, which opens up an interesting shot at a diplo win that I'll at least try.

The current plan is to take one more dutch city and end the war (dutch capitol will actually be nearby then). Will then tech for military tradition, then go the democracy route for jails + security bureau. Once there I'll use commerce towards EP. Dutch hates me plenty as is so stealing from him won't kill my diplo really. I will attempt to steal my way back into true tech parity, as with the size of my empire being larger than opponents I'd be able to run away with the game then. Hannibal is pushing assembly line but nobody likes my only remaining target with enough cities to matter: the dutch. As long as I get cavalry before he gets to tanks I don't think he can stop me. Cavalry vs infantry isn't ideal, but without promos my cavalry will actually be on par with infantry (ones from capitol will be stronger :lol:).

Backup/backdoor win plan is that I'll spread buddhism down towards the english cities I took. I haven't counted the votes but if sury votes for me I might win outright since he is #2 in pop (he isn't eligible becuase ottomans built AP).

I'll have to see how things shake out, this looks like domination or diplomatic depending on my fortune.
 
Emperor/Epic

1754 AD - Game's end.

Spoiler :
1620-1625 French stacks EVISCERATE Dutch defenders in their front city. 2 trebs lost (most had CR III to start with and survived). After that, French troops killed EIGHTEEN consecutive dutch defenders without a single loss. Dutch power plummets and their city falls. The damage done here is so great that peace no longer seems ideal...

1635 airships begin bombarding my knights. Stupid flies :rolleyes:.
1655 Ottomans renounce Willem :rolleyes:. They instantly hand me 160 gold and 4gpt for peace.

1680 Massive battle outside Utrecht. A combat V elephant (I actually have numerous C5 knights and a couple Wellies) marches into the city. A few units died while marching to the capitol...zero lost while killing 16. CR III trebs were up to the task as the dutch have unwisely not yet teched rifling while they are 3 turns from communism. Any hope the dutch have for survival ended with their loss of the capitol, as their power base for unit production has been badly eroded and I continue to produce units quickly. WW is a problem so I switch to police state to mitigate it some.
1695 Ottomans call another stupid AP vote. Everyone but willem and darius vote for him, I vote for me (so does darius). Nobody is going to be winning this way before the game is decided some other way...Oh yeah. I use a C V knight to blast a pikeman on open terrain just because I could.
1706 Another Dutch city falls, and Willem CAPITULATES! We begin the tech spree to get massed cavalry.
1740 Stole replaceable parts off Willem. I'll be stealing most of his goodies.
1754 Er...For some reason it possessed sury to switch from voting for the ottomans to voting for me. This change of heart gave me an instant diplo victory :lol:. GAME OVER then! Just when I was getting a nice comeback EE geared up too, even telling my theft target what to research (had willem beelining assembly line for me...)


I checked the diplomacy screen, and Sury got pissed at the ottomans for signing a DP with carthage :lol:. So much that he voted for me. I'll take it.



Wow, a legit 100k+ score, from the AP of all things. Well, that's what an early finish date will do. Recap:

I built henge, GW, and Mids. I probably only needed GW in hindsight but henge was extremely convenient. Rep helped with :) early but honestly the way this shook out I didn't make much use of specialists. I don't think the mids changed whether or not I'd have won, though the police state switch and the beakers off random settled specialists like spies etc couldn't have hurt. Also, it meant an AI didn't get the mids :p.

Now for what really won the game: getting my hands on ivory early. I used elephants, elephants, and more elephants. At first they were my pure stack attack and defense units (I usually had an axe or two in there somewhere, but mostly elephants). I relied on catapults for little more than bombardment until the longbows got in my way. By then, I was near trebs. Every stack I fought with in this game had the wellies. With charismatic mounted troops can get a 3rd promo with no GGs via vassalage + theo - civics I ran for a large portion of the game. I actually never fought with anything more technically advanced than knights, though at the very end I was starting to get better military.

Keeping power rating up kept Sury off me and on Willem, who he hated more. From there I just hit while they were weak. 1 civ destroyed, 2 capitulated, all with classical/medieval troops. I like playing games like this and it does show that you don't HAVE to play for a tech lead in this game necessarily. I never felt in danger after picking off darius, despite never, ever holding the tech lead. Hopefully those who are used to the "tech to rifling + hit" or "axe rush then camp" maneuvers enjoy a bit of variance ;)



Edit: Pics posted in the spoilers now. I didn't bother with many early as I don't really like dotmapping much and things were slow picture-wise until I started taking them. I used a more events-based approach with the summary otherwise - finally detailing things like trades and what other AIs were doing diplomatically (something I'd neglected in the earlier NC summaries). Don't worry, war pics are still available here and there ;).
 
immortal normal currently at like 275 AD
Spoiler :
Built like 7 cities peacfully got stonehenge, great wall and pyramids as well as great library, had a short war with suileman where he decleared on me but my axemen slaugthered his swordsmen... Will prolly attack oranje and go for dom from there...
 
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