Kazakhstan Embassy

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working on a draft e-mail to send them.
Will post more soon.

For reference, here's the PM that was sent to Memphus:

Hello team SANCTA! Nice to meet you.

Do you have a team email address set up so we can send you messages team to team? We have an official greeting prepared and would like to send it to you via email.

Click to expand...

@Memphus - if you'd like to reply to the note with our team e-mail address - go ahead.
We can let them fire the first shot, since it sounds like they're all ready to go.

all over it

Edit: Sent:

Memphus said:

Good Evening Borat ~

teamSANCTA@gmail.com

We anxiously wait to hear from you.

Memphus

Click to expand...

They are going to be asking for open borders. Normally I wouldn't make a fuss but then again I always get creamed in these games. That agreement earns us nothing but their gratitude (ya right) so should how about denying and see what they do about it. I kinda don’t expect Kaz to be a big trade partner as they are a chief rival at this point.

Er...I suspect that Kaz have met another team...did the GNP points (other than ours) increase by 4? If not, then they already had access to them by meeting another team earlier.

I also suspect that they are going for Alphabet. Should we try to set up some future tech trades? We should research IW eot t71, and beside that we have meditation, priesthood, myst to sell (I assume they already have Wheel/agri/hunting/pottery/AH)

well, if they have sailing, it might open up trade for us, as well. We can ask if they have sailing, if we want.

they have fishing that is all we know.

Well, and writing, therefore they must have one of priesthood, AH and pottery and the prerequisite techs, but we don't know which ones. pottyer and AH are the most likely. Hopefully we could sell them hunting, but I suspect they already have that and have hooked up their eles (cap is size 6)

I meant that if they have sailing and we give them open borders, we'll get a foreign trade route, as will they, of course.

Would we get foreign trade routes? Don't we have to be able to see a route into their cities to get the trade route bonus?

PS there are 8 people in the main forum now, and 7 of them are watching this thread...

Agreeing to open borders doesn't get us any meaningful goodwill (as 1889 says) - but denying it is classic "getting started on the wrong foot" type stuff.

It depends how hostile we want to be.
The Kazaks are probably our neighbors to the east (since it seems very unlikely [impossible?] that they've already sailed past another team).

Given their proximity, it's probably in our best interest to pursue at least a somewhat of an appeasement strategy to buy time.

If we're going to have a shot at avoiding the dogpile, we're going to need at least one solid ally. The Kazaks are probably not going to be that ally... but we need to buy time till we find someone who can be.

My sense is that we SHOULD sign open borders.

Other opinions? We better start hashing this out before the letter shows up and the save comes back around.

Final Thought: if we want to take a hardline stance, I'd advocate something other than an outright denial of the Open Borders. Rather, we should counter-offer with "we'll agree to open borders only if you'll agree to X." Where "x" is a tech trade or resource trade in the future or something. Then we can force them into trading or declining the OB deal themselves.
I'm not advocating this, mind. Just saying I think it'd be better if we decide to be aggressive with them.

Well, we could offer to let them through if they declare war; they can;t choke the fish, so it doesn't harm us in any way otehr than possibly diplomatically (not sure it would even do that), but they won't get the foreign trade routes. OTOH, if we would get teh foreign trade routes, then I thinkg we should take the OB; it's an extra 3 or 6 commerce to us a turn; it'd shave a turn off IW, maybe more.

How about offering OB with a no-scouting clause? That way they (and we?) get the foriegn routes, but prevent them from getting additional info on us.

Are we sure they would keep to it though? They would have 10 turns to just ignore it and to hell with what we think; they would be able to get straight through to the our west and we couldn't stop them. This assume they want to continue scouting though...which we'll know very shortly, when they email us with the greetings.

And the downside is, that we wouldn't be able to trade with them, and they'd still get teh foriegn trade route income while we aren't sure if we would get it.

Finally.
I think if they ask for open borders my view is the number and strength of unit(s) must be negotiated.

Since we're a mid-game civ as they our it would seem that it's both our best interests in being friends. We should also let them know that we are aware they have other friends and are willing to negotiate for this information.

No, if they have a coastal route to us, we can both get the trading.

Cool, I think an OB would be good for us; it'll tell us if we are on the same continent as them or not as well. (2 commerce = same continent, 3 commerce = different continent)

but we would get the sign beside them would we not? we currently don't have that.

After checking a reliable source...we'd get that when we signed the OB. I can't say where I checked it of course, but I can confirm that you don;t need to see a direct route to a city to get the trade route, and you won't get that sign until you sign the OB

EDIT: I'm an idiot...need sailing in BtS for trade routes. Hardball offer, offer them IW and sailing for Alphabet? Maybe offer med+ph for writing? And tie it all together as an all or nothing deal along with the OB? You can tell I'm not a diplomat Or just be a nice suck up and give them the OB?

We would only get the trade routes if we have sailing. However, I doubt they have Sailing as there is no trade route between us and them, which only requires 1 civ to have the required trade routes.