Civplayers OOS patch is live!

Civplayers is happy to announce that we finally have a solution to the OOS amphibious assault bug that produces an OOS consistantly. This is an unofficial patch and it will not cause a *MOD* tag, but it will cause a first turn OOS if all players do not have this patch. So please encourage all MP players to D/L and install this patch. The faster this spreads the sooner the transistion period will be over. Civplayers OOS patch

CS

I dunno if im the only one with this problem but after I download and extract the install file and open it I type in the path for my game which is E:\Spilfiler\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword and press install it says can't extract dll file and can't install uninstall file. I would like to try to install it manually so could you plz put up the files without the install thing also?

Tnx for sending the file..

There is a small bug in the installer that causes that, just hit the Browse button, and tell were your BTS folder is. But yes you can just get the modified dll here as well http://league.civplayers.com/getFile.php?id=70

CS

Excuse me for saying so but this is going to cause problems in the multiplayer community. You need to get Firaxis to sponsor this patch and have it as a required patch to install before entering into the multiplayer lobby like other patches, otherwise you are going to split the multiplayer into two versions without being able to identify who has which version, which is extremely bad release management.

This may work for the controlled "CTON/League" Players but when those players enter into the regular multiplayer community they will cause OOS problems as you have stated "but it will cause a first turn OOS if all players do not have this patch".

The regular multiplayer community may be reluctant to install the patch as it is not coming from a confirmed, and accredited source such as Firaxis. Do not get me wrong your reputation is known in the multiplayer community I am sure of it, but you are not a creditable source for patch release.

In Summary -- You are introducing a problem rather than solving one. If you are indeed a "QA Tester" for Firaxis then have them sponsor the patch, and have it released through the proper channel. I have heard some people reluctant to install it because they think it may be a Trojan.

With regards to your patch, I installed it but when I play against people who don't have the patch yet it still gives a OOS error.

Therefore it is indeed wise to make it an official patch. Also could you provide us with an UNinstaller of some kind?

Thank you!

p.gaauw said:

With regards to your patch, I installed it but when I play against people who don't have the patch yet it still gives a OOS error.

Therefore it is indeed wise to make it an official patch. Also could you provide us with an UNinstaller of some kind?

Thank you!

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Exactly -- And if there is one person experiencing this problem, and able to communicate via this forum, I wonder how many there are who are experiencing this problem who do not communicate via this forum.

P.S. Has any testing been done to confirm that the changes you have made do not effect the HOF mod? If it does then you are screwing over people who play multiplayer, GOTM, HOF ... ect

OctavianFlu said:

Excuse me for saying so but this is going to cause problems in the multiplayer community. You need to get Firaxis to sponsor this patch and have it as a required patch to install before entering into the multiplayer lobby like other patches, otherwise you are going to split the multiplayer into two versions without being able to identify who has which version, which is extremely bad release management.

This may work for the controlled "CTON/League" Players but when those players enter into the regular multiplayer community they will cause OOS problems as you have stated "but it will cause a first turn OOS if all players do not have this patch".

The regular multiplayer community may be reluctant to install the patch as it is not coming from a confirmed, and accredited source such as Firaxis. Do not get me wrong your reputation is known in the multiplayer community I am sure of it, but you are not a creditable source for patch release.

In Summary -- You are introducing a problem rather than solving one. If you are indeed a "QA Tester" for Firaxis then have them sponsor the patch, and have it released through the proper channel. I have heard some people reluctant to install it because they think it may be a Trojan.

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I understand your concerns but Firaxis is NOT going to release any more patches, giving us the source code to make a patch is as much as we are going to get. This patch has already been D/L'd over 1250 times from the Civplayers server already, and it has only been 2 days since we released it. The source code is posted here in the Mods section and in the Civplayers forums, people will just have to trust that we are not distributing a virus....I value my reputation a bit more than that anyway.

It is simply a matter of having a critical mass of MP players adopting this and the rest will follow, I believe that over the weekend we have already got to this point. I and other MP players were in the lobby all weekend helping anyone that had problems, this forum, although a good place is not were the patch is going to be distributed, the GS lobby is were 90% of MP players are going to hear about this and we have that environment covered well.

And if you need to unistall the patch, it only takes 30 sec to do that or reinstall it, that is why I had an installation program made vice just providing the file.

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

I understand your concerns but Firaxis is NOT going to release any more patches, giving us the source code to make a patch is as much as we are going to get. This patch has already been D/L'd over 1250 times from the Civplayers server already, and it has only been 2 days since we released it. The source code is posted here in the Mods section and in the Civplayers forums, people will just have to trust that we are not distributing a virus....I value my reputation a bit more than that anyway.

It is simply a matter of having a critical mass of MP players adopting this and the rest will follow, I believe that over the weekend we have already got to this point. I and other MP players were in the lobby all weekend helping anyone that had problems, this forum, although a good place is not were the patch is going to be distributed, the GS lobby is were 90% of MP players are going to hear about this and we have that environment covered well.

And if you need to unistall the patch, it only takes 30 sec to do that or reinstall it, that is why I had an installation program made vice just providing the file.

CS

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I appreciate your response, but what is going to happen in a month from now, when the "steam" of this release is over, and new comers join, and without proper validation cause OOS because of a version mismatch. Your introducing a higher probability of OOS into the multiplayer community rather than solving it -- But again -- Time will tell, and I hope I am wrong because Multiplayer games make up 80% of my CIV IV time.

I am also curious how this patch affects the HOF mod - hopefully not at all.

It will be just like we deal now with new players who can't get the 3.17 patch D/L'd via GS, we simply educate them right in the lobby as to how to go about getting the patch from an external source, only now we will let them know that there is an additional patch to get after that. Believe me we do this all the time and it doesn't cause anyone a huge headache.

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

It will be just like we deal now with new players who can't get the 3.17 patch D/L'd via GS, we simply educate them right in the lobby as to how to go about getting the patch from an external source, only now we will let them know that there is an additional patch to get after that. Believe me we do this all the time and it doesn't cause anyone a huge headache.

CS

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Well I am glad it has no effect on loading the HOF mod. I would like to say that I am utterly pissed at this CanuckSoldier. Do not get me wrong but you have the best interests at heart when releasing this patch to better the game for the majority, but you are causing a cluster F in the multiplayer forum.

Experience #1. List of games come up and there is two filling games. One a "PATCH ONLY", and another "Regular". Both with players in it. I join the "Patch Only". Everyone makes sure everyone is patched, and we start ... 1st turn OSS



Experience #2. New Game -- Turn 35 OSS



Either your "Patch" is buggy or someone in the game doesn't have the patch, which if its the latter, then I will continue to post how negatively this impacts my game experience. I play Tuesdays/Thursdays/Saturdays/Sunday's online.

You know what sucks?! If I had joined the other game that wasn't patched I'd be playing now -- So thanks! OH, but what if I had not upgraded, and I did join that game, and someone with this patch joins the "non-patched" game, then I'd still be here writing you.

I'm pissed man!

Personally I think this is a bad idea. Fracture the civ community and leave casual players in the dust. For a patch to a rare error. The installer is poorly written. It is not official. If it turns out to contain a virus there is no corporate liability.

Every day you will have someone who just installed or hasnt played in a while messing up a game. If the members of this site want a patch for the community they should petition the publisher for an official patch. It almost seems there is an attitude of forcing this on the community. I know lots of people that would NEVER download a third party patch. This isnt a case or 'reaching critical mass', there will always and forever be 'patched' and 'unpatched' games.

Personally I don't think fixing the amphibious oos bug is worth screwing up the community. I dont care how many people have downloaded the patch. I think those in charge of this site should do the responsible thing and withdraw the patch, then petition the developer to release it officially.

The member of "this site" didn't release the patch, I did, and I have no affiliation with CFC, other than being a member of there forums. And as for getting Firaxis to make this official, that is just never going to happen, period. So arguing that it should be official is wasting your typing. The future of MP is in our hands not Firaxis, and this is the only way we can do it. Yes there is some pain involved in getting everyone on board and educating new players, but in the end if we want Civ4 MP to last as long as Civ3 MP still is, this is the only way ahead.

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

The member of "this site" didn't release the patch, I did, and I have no affiliation with CFC, other than being a member of there forums. And as for getting Firaxis to make this official, that is just never going to happen, period. So arguing that it should be official is wasting your typing. The future of MP is in our hands not Firaxis, and this is the only way we can do it. Yes there is some pain involved in getting everyone on board and educating new players, but in the end if we want Civ4 MP to last as long as Civ3 MP still is, this is the only way ahead.

CS

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So you introduce more problems than you are solving -- Good Job

CanuckSoldier said:

...And as for getting Firaxis to make this official, that is just never going to happen, period. So arguing that it should be official is wasting your typing. The future of MP is in our hands not Firaxis, and this is the only way we can do it.
CS

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Why will Firaxis not fix the game, or release patches? They are still selling it. Doesn't sound like an end of life product if it is still on store shelves. Did they announce this?

Mettius said:

Why will Firaxis not fix the game, or release patches? They are still selling it. Doesn't sound like an end of life product if it is still on store shelves. Did they announce this?

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No they haven't, but like everything else, fixing bugs cost money, and because take2 probably only wants to invest into new-future revenue streams, bug fixes such as these are probably low on their priority list.

CS thinks he is an authority in the MP community, and therefore continues to believe he can do what he wishes. He and his civleague players have totaly screwed up, and I hope people complain to firaxis to either have CS pull his patch, or have them support it. Either is fine by me, but the problems CS is introducing could have been avoided if they actually thought this stupid idea through.

Read their own forums ... most of them have shown their own disapproval of the patch. It will just be a matter of time before CS produces a public announcement that he apologies for the trouble he has caused us. I hope he gets sued by Firaxis personally.

CanuckSoldier said:

And as for getting Firaxis to make this official, that is just never going to happen, period. So arguing that it should be official is wasting your typing. The future of MP is in our hands not Firaxis, and this is the only way we can do it. Yes there is some pain involved in getting everyone on board and educating new players, but in the end if we want Civ4 MP to last as long as Civ3 MP still is, this is the only way ahead.

CS

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1) Who gives you the right to decide that the community must endure this pain. I've had more pain in last few days from 'patched' and 'unpatched' games than the amphibious oos but ever caused.

2) How did you arrive at your conclusion that Firaxis will never put out another patch or release this as an offical patch. Did you email them? Did you start a community petition in these forums or elsewhere to raise awareness or highlight your concern?

3) New Total War is out. Hopefully the community sorts this out while I play that.

P.S. I hope you don't take personal CS. I know you did this for the right reason. But my sense is that this will cause problems for months to fix a small issue. If it fixed all OOS errors I might feel it was worth the pain. I think every effort should have been made to get an official patch released before part of the community decided to force it on the rest.

I guess your just going to have to take my work for it that there will be no more patches, there is no official statement for Firaxis on this, but beleive me, like OF stated they are not going to spend money on code that has no future revenue flow. I've been QA testing Civ products since C3C for them and I have a good understanding of the internal politics of Firaxis/T2.

As to your claims that I am fracturing the community, well the patch has been D/L'd 2300 times, there is no reason for it to divide the community into 2 groups. We can all play in the same sandbox.

And no I am not forcing this on anyone but my league, and I do have both the authority and moral right to do that. For the non-league players we are just encouraging them to use it for the simple fact of life that we do all have to play with the same code. But that is upto you, no one has a gun to your head. And yes I do have the moral right to decide what is best for Civplayers Leagues, and I made this decsions with the input of my admin team and many players. Yes it was a risk, but the benifit of promoting new games other than just the old SS inland sea games is well worth it, we have to keep evolving or we will soon die.

We can argue for ever on the issue of this was right or wrong and we will have different opinions that probably will not change for either of us. In the end I acted for what I see as the best long term solution to keeping the competitive MP community vibrant and alive.

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

We can argue for ever on the issue of this was right or wrong and we will have different opinions that probably will not change for either of us. In the end I acted for what I see as the best long term solution to keeping the competitive MP community vibrant and alive.

CS

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But in the end CanuckSoldier - He who has the megaphone speaks the loudest. And in your case your channel is larger than ours, and what bothers me is you did not once consult the regular online community about this, and gather all the risk scenario's before releasing. All of this headache, and transition is not worth fixing a bug that 99% of us have never experienced, and is usually solved by someone rejoining the game.

Now -- People have to reload their game to either patched/unpatched in order to join a game that is actively being filled. People are now introduced to the risk that if a unpatched someone were to join a patched game that their could be a first turn OOS (see my pictures above). People who are reluctant to install the patch are now isolated from the rest of the community, because some people just don't install 3rd party patches (rightfully so), which means there are less players to join regular pick me up games. What happens if someone wants to join a game already in progress and the game name doesn't specify that they have the patch or not -- will it cause OOS?

It sounds to me that you do not know what you are doing. You may have a league that are now forced to install the patch, and through a common effort people should be telling new players to install this patch, but who you forget to include in your "utopia" are the people who will not install 3rd party patches, and it could be those players that are regulars, and those players who are now screwed by your decision to fix a bug that 99% of us do not encounter.

What you should have done -- Is include a slew of fixes, rather than just one. People complain that the voting screen requires every player to vote in order to continue. A simple change in the logic would have it so that if the majority vote it continues. There are game hang-ups due to rejoins and/or when retiring from the game. I am sure there are others that other people could come up with but if you CONSULTED with the community first you would have a better patch, and probably an easier time for people to adopt to it.

It sounds to me that you have no clue what you are doing. Just because someone thinks he has something that will benefit a group, doesn't mean that the group wants it, and believe me download numbers do not justify your decision. Your decision reminds me of what GW Bush did in Iraq. Its his way or the highway - screw the locals.

I really really hope I am overreacting because this is the only game I play, but you obviously need a reality check..

I assure you that I know exactly what I am doing, you may not agree with my decision or the thought process that I used to arrive at the decision, but none the less it was well considered and well educated.

As to including other "fixes", I am not a programmer, and the more code you change the more probablitiy that you are going to induce more bugs. And therefore the time and personel required to do QA is vastly larger, and I don't have those resources. It took me 6 months to get Alex to find the time in his busy schedule to to identify and solve the single problem of the boating OOS, and provide a 20 line code fix. I know that there are other "unofficial patches" here, but other than just fixing known bugs, it is always controversial when you start making balance changes to the game to "fix" problems that only some people see as problems. So limiting my scope to a single bug that was sufficiently bad for us competitive MP players to warrant dealing with, was as much as I wanted to tackle. And as you can attest, there is certainly a "vocal minority" that isn't happy with even this.

I am going to consider porting our Game Monitor Mod over to the area of core code at some time for just the league, but atm I don't have the source code as the original programer has disappeared, so it will have to wait, but even if I get the chance to do this it will be with a simple graphical front end to load BTS with or without the mod to make it easy for players to play open or league games.

Remember this is only a game....it is not reality..and therefore it is not me that needs the "check".

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

I assure you that I know exactly what I am doing, you may not agree with my decision or the thought process that I used to arrive at the decision, but none the less it was well considered and well educated.

As to including other "fixes", I am not a programmer, and the more code you change the more probablitiy that you are going to induce more bugs. And therefore the time and personel required to do QA is vastly larger, and I don't have those resources. It took me 6 months to get Alex to find the time in his busy schedule to to identify and solve the single problem of the boating OOS, and provide a 20 line code fix. I know that there are other "unofficial patches" here, but other than just fixing known bugs, it is always controversial when you start making balance changes to the game to "fix" problems that only some people see as problems. So limiting my scope to a single bug that was sufficiently bad for us competitive MP players to warrant dealing with, was as much as I wanted to tackle. And as you can attest, there is certainly a "vocal minority" that isn't happy with even this.

I am going to consider porting our Game Monitor Mod over to the area of core code at some time for just the league, but atm I don't have the source code as the original programer has disappeared, so it will have to wait, but even if I get the chance to do this it will be with a simple graphical front end to load BTS with or without the mod to make it easy for players to play open or league games.

Remember this is only a game....it is not reality..and therefore it is not me that needs the "check".

CS

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You obviously do not know what you are doing when you have introduced multiple versions into the community without proper version control. That you have introduced more variabilities, and higher probability of error than the original bug you are are fixing. I see nothing from your decision that you claim to be educated, and in order to be considerate you must take everyones perspective into account which you have not.