Virtual reality -> societal collapse

Let's speculate.

If a working, commercially successful and accessible Matrix-like virtual reality network was created, wouldn't it destroy the very basis of modern capitalist society?

Let's say that a month fee would be entirely affordable for most people with stable income. Time would be compressed in the simulation, so an hour-long stay in it would amount to several hours in real time. In the simulation, you'd have access to many virtual worlds where you could satisfy any need or wish you could possibly have - you could drink expensive alcohol, visit tropical island resorts, travel to the space station, have a sex with celebrities, take part in D-Day landing - simply put, ANYTHING. The simulation would be so incredibly realistic that nobody could tell a difference from real world.

Now, why would people travel, drink alcohol, read, play computer games, go to cinema, marry, work hard for a better job with better pay etc. - what would be the point if everything was available for a small fee in the virtual reality?

Wouldn't most people work just so much to make enough money for their basic needs (food, rent) and to buy more time in the virtual reality world? How would it affect the economy - I think the services sector would pretty much collapse, luxury goods would become much less sought after and film industry would go bankrupt altogether.

What other effects would it have, what do you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodeck

Classic example of a great show that really misses that this single invention would change everything.

Mowque said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodeck

Classic example of a great show that really misses that this single invention would change everything.

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Star Trek holodecks are not really what I am talking about - besides the fact that it's a scienceless nonsense, it requires actual space.

Matrix-like virtual reality would be much cheaper and more accessible to all kinds of people.

I think it would do more than undermine the basis of the market economy. It would undermine the basis of life in general.

A quick question. In this simulation, would your basic needs be satisfied, as in, would eating in the simulation actually provide you with nourishment?

I dunno... arguably, the very existence of a "real world" to conquer would drive at least some individuals to still live in reality.

To a limited extent, though, this is already happening in real life. I know a guy who is very intelligent and talented - he could easily get a $60,000 dollar a year job at least - who now works about 25 hours a week at Taco Bell, and spends most of his free time playing RPGs and hanging out with his friends. Computer games (especially RPGs) at least currently fill most of his ambitions, and soak up most of his creative energy.

Consider the number of underemployed "geeks" (you're on a forum full of them!) who spend most of their free time playing games or absorbing media instead of finding other ways to make money/boost their own productivity. This is certainly different from 50 years ago, and I'd say it's already the cause of lower standards of living - with the internet and computer games, someone who is lower class can experience much of the luxury of those in the upper classes, lowering the incentive for intelligent lower class people to make more money.

Camikaze said:

I think it would do more than undermine the basis of the market economy. It would undermine the basis of life in general.

A quick question. In this simulation, would your basic needs be satisfied, as in, would eating in the simulation actually provide you with nourishment?

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No, you'd still have to eat and drink in real world. It would feel the same, however.

Hundegesicht said:

I dunno... arguably, the very existence of a "real world" to conquer would drive at least some individuals to still live in reality.

To a limited extent, though, this is already happening in real life. I know a guy who is very intelligent and talented - he could easily get a $60,000 dollar a year job at least - who now works about 25 hours a week at Taco Bell, and spends most of his free time playing RPGs and hanging out with his friends. Computer games (especially RPGs) at least currently fill most of his ambitions, and soak up most of his creative energy.

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Precisely!

Consider how unreal the present-day games are, yet they attract hundreds of millions of people, with hundreds of thousands spending most of their free time playing them.

Now imagine a fantasy RPG game, that would feel totally real - I guess many people would leave their virtual world only to get the absolute necessities - some money to pay for subscription, something to eat and drink once in a while.

Governments will find a way to ban them before it's too late. Either that, or they'll use it as a tool of control. Either way, it's not looking too good.

Kraznaya said:

Governments will find a way to ban them before it's too late. Either that, or they'll use it as a tool of control. Either way, it's not looking too good.

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People would find a way how to get in.

I guess the governments could try to tax it heavily in order to make for the losses resulting from the collapse of services and other taxed activities/industries. I don't think that a democratic government would ban such entertaiment completely.

You can't beat the real thing.

To answer OP: You're describing pretty accurately how the world how it will be in , lets say, one hundred years or so.
Assuming that the advancements in emulating the real world with the means of computer and programming technology will continue in the future to be as steady and rapid as they are now.

Could you interact with real people also in the virtual world? I assume so. What would be the difference, then, except for some sentimental issue? I'd gladly take 'the blue pill'; for one thing it would save our planet's environment. And it would cure my social anxiety. So what if the economy collapses; I have infinite everything. Someone would still need to keep the machines running though...

Edit: Hmm, if everything could be had at the push of a button, there wouldn't be much of a challenge in the game. Perhaps I could devise a way, when I get bored enough, to wipe my memory and live a 'normal' life in the machine. Oh, wait...

warpus said:

You can't beat the real thing.

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This, essentially. Also, a world like that would feel absolutely purposeless to some people.

Virtual reality would just become the "real world". People would live and work in virtual reality, only occasionally leaving it for nourishment or exercise. Anything they need in the real world they could get from income they made in virtual reality. Governments would adjust accordingly.

Nylan said:

This, essentially. Also, a world like that would feel absolutely purposeless to some people.

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Can't beat the real thing? Of course you can. It would feel exactly the same, only you could lead a much happier life there. Reality is a set of sensory data processed by your brain, nothing more.

People who talk about things like "societal collapse" and "moral decay" amuse me

Can I make mods for this VR?

Winner said:

What other effects would it have, what do you think?

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I don't think it would be sustainable. First off, there's going to be massive government opposition. Think heroin's bad? This is escapism on a whole new level. It would probably be either prohibited or very heavily controlled.

Secondly, inevitably there's going to be a few people who don't go in for virtual reality. Quite possibly nutjob ideologues. It occurs to me that you have a large majority of people keyed in to virtual reality and relatively helpless in normal reality counterbalanced by a small minority of people who detest the virtual reality world, and are very competent in the real world. This does not sound like a good combination.

Virtual reality would supplement the economy, and be priced accordingly. I doubt that every experience would have the same small fee. Unfortunately, the time-compression condition in the OP would be a negative, as people would have an incentive to do more things in real life where they have more time.

lovett said:

It occurs to me that you have a large majority of people keyed in to virtual reality and relatively helpless in normal reality counterbalanced by a small minority of people who detest the virtual reality world, and are very competent in the real world. This does not sound like a good combination.

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Nice observation.

I hope this virtual reality comes sooner than robotic "conversion"/replacements for the actual human brain. At least then, we'll all still be human, not just those who prefer doing things the old-fashioned way. Maybe. There remains the problem that "converting" to a robotic brain offers the promise of immortality (if you don't see that it actually offers instant mortality) while virtual reality doesn't.