Globalization

[Lexicus]

I find this distinction only sometimes is helpful and usually is the opposite.

There's always levels. At the level of any kind of critique of political economy the distinction does start to matter because what distinguishes liberals is they don't really have critiques of today's political economy, or if they do they are essentially toothless and/or incoherent (Liz Warren's "break up the banks" being a typical example).

And before you were born, was steadily decreasing. There was a huge change after you were born, and it was instigated by one party.

As to this, I think it kinda depends what level you're talking about. On the most basic level, Democrats briefly had the New Deal coalition which was all about decreasing inequality and voted effectively for policies that succeeded in doing that. Now, I think it is actually primarily the World War II mobilization and not the New Deal that took us from the very unequal 1920s and 30s to the relatively equal 50s and 60s, but regardless, having the New Deal Coalition in power at that time was crucial to ensure broad-based sharing in the economic gainz. All this time the Republicans were trying to undo this, the Old Money faction of the GOP resigned itself to the New Deal in the 50s (e.g. Eisenhower writing that those who wanted to get rid of social security were a small number of idiots) but the mostly Western new money always bitterly hated it (and its corollary/continuation in the expansion of black participation in mainstream society).

The thing is, while Republicans have been trying, comprehensively and constantly, to increase inequality (racial and economic) since at least the 1970s, the Democrats are the ones who are supposed to be for more equality, so when the Democrats have lapses on this, it hits different than when Republicans are just being Republicans. I blame Bill Clinton more bitterly for financial deregulation than Reagan, because Reagan was what he was, and more importantly I don't have to listen to Democrats telling me Ronald Reagan actually did nothing wrong. We have higher expectations of the Democrats, and so when they are corrupt and engage in stupid neoliberal garbage we are more disappointed than when Republicans do even worse things, because we expect nothing but savagery from Republicans anyway.

 

[Hygro]

Yesterdat I a guy on reddit accounting he got sucker punched on the subway platform here in SF but what really upset him was not the evil guy who punched him but the 20 people who pretended not to see as he bled from his face calling the cops for himself.

I get it.

But we chose who we are in that. There’s no waiting in politics. So there’s forward: Don’t imagine you’re the guy punched and the dems are the onlookers. Imagine you’re THE dem and you would do something. Even it’s as little as shouting “hey that guy punched him!” Cuz I ducking would.

We now know the republicans as a party don’t have values in the forms of policies and so the great era of compromising with their policies just shifts them right.

We had to learn this.

I voted for Obama in the primary in large part because he had the greatest chance of getting them to compromise. Illinois Republicans LOVED the guy. Hell, almost all republicans seemed to until it was time for them to rally against him.

But like Obama was the worst for income dem equality. Even Clinton presided gains towards equality (bOtH sIdES nothing ever changes).

Side note, when bush jr started signing pelosi’s bills things started moving towards equality. Also, the GFC hit rich people first so that data… whatever

Democrats got confused in the 1970s economically when liars convinced the media that stagflation defied the Keynesianism (it didn’t, it fits the model well enough). And the 90s boom during the surplus confused us further. But no we know what we knew before the oil crises. The party, from the bottom, knows. “Conservative” Biden is liberal thanks to the party.

So instead of quitting, because there’s no dust settle, they won’t stop until it’s Taliban + Plantations, we recognize what’s good and we reward it and push it until it’s actually good.

20 years of 2020s style democrats, if we could magically sustain it, would give us basically everything anyone on CFC is asking for.

Of course many here will just change the goal posts and say it’s always bad. But I’d rather them complain our utopia sucks than be in dystopia with them for the same complaint.

 

[Lexicus]

Just FYI, you don't need to sell me on this - it's clear that the GOP has a comprehensively worse record on economic inequality than the Democrats, but it's not accurate to say the Democrats should get no blame for rising inequality. It's bad enough that we can say pretty much accurately that Nixon was to Obama's left on economics.

 

[Farm Boy]

They had masses of trained and armed men properly traumatized. Take heart Lex, MAGA will do nothing, they're old and comfortable. But if you're following political trends in the soft sciences, young men are finally trending right where they might be inclined to do something? Will the comfortable left, and right, be able to develop algorithmic kill/control swarms in time to protect the venture capitalists? They're practicing just that. Hell, you can probably just substitute Americans in general if you don't like the BSAB trigger in an election year.

Watch the hands, not the words.

(And just wonder oh wonder why the leading causes of death for those between 18 and 45 are allowed to be what they are, but talk of diet is so droll)

 

[Hygro]

Just FYI, you don't need to sell me on this - it's clear that the GOP has a comprehensively worse record on economic inequality than the Democrats, but it's not accurate to say the Democrats should get no blame for rising inequality. It's bad enough that we can say pretty much accurately that Nixon was to Obama's left on economics.

And every time we weight them as functionally equal another zillionaire gets his gulfstream.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hey, we're supposed to be getting Narz's daughter out of the house somehow.

Sometimes thread-drifts amuse me.

 

[Lexicus]

They used to have to do stuff because there was no one providing it as a service.

I'm worried.

This appears to be an argument against specialization as such. Are there drawbacks to increasing social complexity, increasing specialization?

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Hey, we're supposed to be getting Narz's daughter out of the house somehow.

Sometimes thread-drifts amuse me.

don’t worry, alien space bats have already teleported her to Serbia (heaven on earth).

 

[Hygro]

This appears to be an argument against specialization as such. Are there drawbacks to increasing social complexity, increasing specialization?

Repetitive stress injury, literally, and its mental forms.

Moving the motivation for diverse movements and thoughts, for we are sharks who must never stop lest we accumulate disease, from impetus to pre frontal cortex willpower is robbing us all.

No longer are we using our prefrontal cortex to just kick ass, in harmony with the rest of our brain, we’re using it to just get out of bed.

Meanwhile, my wrists hurt. I used half my Ritalin just to get to a bench outside, where I am typing this instead of looking at the fountain. I need the dopamine. It will wear off in 2 hours and I haven’t even been “productive” yet.

Compared to many, I’m still doing okay. Still motivated still happy enough.

 

[Narz]

Meanwhile, my wrists hurt. I used half my Ritalin just to get to a bench outside, where I am typing this instead of looking at the fountain. I need the dopamine. It will wear off in 2 hours and I haven’t even been “productive” yet.

Compared to many, I’m still doing okay. Still motivated still happy enough.

Never fear, Biden won't forget you!

Don't beat yourself up, how long can one expect oneself to stare @ a fountain, even Echart Tolle's got to stop staring and record some YouTube videos sometimes.

Here's a refill

 

[GenMarshall]

Never fear, Biden won't forget you!

After his two scoops of ice cream .

 

[bernie14]

Repetitive stress injury, literally, and its mental forms.

Moving the motivation for diverse movements and thoughts, for we are sharks who must never stop lest we accumulate disease, from impetus to pre frontal cortex willpower is robbing us all.

No longer are we using our prefrontal cortex to just kick ass, in harmony with the rest of our brain, we’re using it to just get out of bed.

Meanwhile, my wrists hurt. I used half my Ritalin just to get to a bench outside, where I am typing this instead of looking at the fountain. I need the dopamine. It will wear off in 2 hours and I haven’t even been “productive” yet.

Compared to many, I’m still doing okay. Still motivated still happy enough.

Yo, still on SSRI?

 

[amadeus]

Democrats got confused in the 1970s economically when liars convinced the media that stagflation defied the Keynesianism (it didn’t, it fits the model well enough)

I thought the Keynesian model included fiscal conservatism when private growth was high. I think 1957 was the only year during the last 80 there was actually a spending cut.

If the model is good, but people can’t stick to it, is it a good model?

edit: I haven’t said anything in a while and this is alls I gots

 

[Estebonrober]

Don't be sad just let explain yourself better.

I think this is the left issue in a nutshell, head shaking self satisfaction rather than actually trying to make a case.

Like a bullied kid sitting in the corner feeling superior to all the troglodytes with your superior intellect (which clearly isn't all its cracked up to be otherwise you'd be able to improve your status)

Alienation leads to random acts of violence, lax gun laws and a right-wing culture that is extremely exclusive along with a liberal culture that is extremely patronizing combine for a toxic soup of alienation. It is self-explanatory as long as you are not still buying into the notion that what passes on "news" television of "papers of note" is left wing. Thats all liberal trash. The right-wing exclusionary behavior should be self-explanatory. You pretty much have to be cis-white male to have any possible acceptance.

I know enough to know that I know very little, but enough to also know that pretty much all the reactionary bullfeathers I read out of people today has not made society better in my lifetime, and largely has just made people's lives painful for all of human history for no other reason their sense of superiority (I'm doing very well thank you very much, capitalism is easy for me. It's just a painfully fudging stupid way to run the world)

 

[Hygro]

I thought the Keynesian model included fiscal conservatism when private growth was high. I think 1957 was the only year during the last 80 there was actually a spending cut.

If the model is good, but people can’t stick to it, is it a good model?

edit: I haven’t said anything in a while and this is alls I gots

Spending your way out of recessions implies spending more during busts than booms but doesn’t suggest any opposite or equal savings during booms. An economically balanced budget will almost always be in deficit and will grow basically forever.

Whether trying to guide an economy based on an economic model is worthwhile spending on its viability within the political system is a whole other question. It did make whether we want an educated populace a partisan question.

 

[innonimatu]

This appears to be an argument against specialization as such. Are there drawbacks to increasing social complexity, increasing specialization?

Sure. The obvious one is that a very specialized society gets increasingly frail. Will lack redundancy.

A more general one is that specialization is a form of alienation.

The often mentioned problem is unhappyness. Do you want to spend your life doing one and only one thing? Even Adam Smith discussing his example of productivity increases through the dividion of labour managed to see the problem.
But there is another problem, related to that one. Lack of autonomy. And the conscience of that, which has political consequences. No one is 100% autonomous. But an extremely specialized society is one where you have to buy everything as a service, and know nothing but what you do as a service. Will be forced to buy, and will be kept from knowing. Will in fact be forbided to do anything else, because "security". Do you want to raise and kill aome animals for your own consumption? Verboten, public health hazard, you might offer "tainted meat" to someone. Of inflict distress on those animals in killing them outside "proper procedures". Do you want to farm some tiny plot of land, or even have a decent garden? Verboten, you might use unauthozed poesticides, only licensed farmers and gardeners sould be allowed farm. Yiu want to care for an elderly relative at home instead of dumping her into a for-profit "assisted living facility"? Verbiten, you do not have credentials to be a care-giver.
And I'm actually pointing out changes I have been witnessing in this suicide pact called the EU, at different stages of dysfunction but all going the same way. Pure dehumanization, people being reduced to cogs in profit extraction systems.

Very specialized socities end in colapse. What I have been living through is a slow-motion societal train-wreck.

 

[amadeus]

Spending your way out of recessions implies spending more during busts than booms but doesn’t suggest any opposite or equal savings during booms. An economically balanced budget will almost always be in deficit and will grow basically forever.

If it is the case it reads to me like the government budget is always primed to be ratcheted up relative to the private economy, displacing it as time goes on.

The often mentioned problem is unhappyness. Do you want to spend your life doing one and only one thing?

I think this is a loaded question. I will respond with my own: do you want to spend a lot of your time doing things you‘re not good at, in the pursuit of what could otherwise be gained more easily elsewhere?

 

[Hygro]

If it is the case it reads to me like the government budget is always primed to be ratcheted up relative to the private economy, displacing it as time goes on.

It doesn’t have to displace the private economy at all even if it grows as a percentage of the total economy.

It also doesn’t have to grow as a total percent of the economy, but you would expect it to overall.

 

[Narz]

Alienation leads to random acts of violence, lax gun laws and a right-wing culture that is extremely exclusive along with a liberal culture that is extremely patronizing combine for a toxic soup of alienation. It is self-explanatory as long as you are not still buying into the notion that what passes on "news" television of "papers of note" is left wing. Thats all liberal trash. The right-wing exclusionary behavior should be self-explanatory. You pretty much have to be cis-white male to have any possible acceptance.

I know enough to know that I know very little, but enough to also know that pretty much all the reactionary bullfeathers I read out of people today has not made society better in my lifetime, and largely has just made people's lives painful for all of human history for no other reason their sense of superiority (I'm doing very well thank you very much, capitalism is easy for me. It's just a painfully fudging stupid way to run the world)

Capitalism is just one experiment and hardly the root of the problem.

If you think alienation and violence are bad now you should read up on the Chinese cultural revolution.

In terms of violence modern human society is extremely safe. The problem is there is no guarantee that will last.

It's easy to say "the way we run the world is bad" but very hard to change it, especially when you benefit, and people in the 1st world do benefit massively even as they suffer.

The fact is modern angst and despair is painful but we're dependent on the modern industrial beast for our survival. And local efforts to build community resilience will be undercut by industry. It's hard to imagine how to fight on a large scale unless you and your community is wealthy enough to take a loss being sustainable (like a rich person who starts their own homestead even tho they could get their food way cheaper at a box supermarket)

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Sure. The obvious one is that a very specialized society gets increasingly frail. Will lack redundancy.

A more general one is that specialization is a form of alienation.

The often mentioned problem is unhappyness. Do you want to spend your life doing one and only one thing? Even Adam Smith discussing his example of productivity increases through the dividion of labour managed to see the problem.
But there is another problem, related to that one. Lack of autonomy. And the conscience of that, which has political consequences. No one is 100% autonomous. But an extremely specialized society is one where you have to buy everything as a service, and know nothing but what you do as a service. Will be forced to buy, and will be kept from knowing. Will in fact be forbided to do anything else, because "security". Do you want to raise and kill aome animals for your own consumption? Verboten, public health hazard, you might offer "tainted meat" to someone. Of inflict distress on those animals in killing them outside "proper procedures". Do you want to farm some tiny plot of land, or even have a decent garden? Verboten, you might use unauthozed poesticides, only licensed farmers and gardeners sould be allowed farm. Yiu want to care for an elderly relative at home instead of dumping her into a for-profit "assisted living facility"? Verbiten, you do not have credentials to be a care-giver.
And I'm actually pointing out changes I have been witnessing in this suicide pact called the EU, at different stages of dysfunction but all going the same way. Pure dehumanization, people being reduced to cogs in profit extraction systems.

Very specialized socities end in colapse. What I have been living through is a slow-motion societal train-wreck.

False. You can have animals for self consumption. You only need to register it as a domestic farm, you don't even need any expressed authorization from the administration. In Spain the max amount of animals you can have for self consumption varies from a region to other. In my region you can have up to one cow, five pigs or about forty chickens. For vegetables you can have a patch of land to cultivate them without any restrictions while you don't commercialize it, there are restrictions about using fertilizers to avoid water source pollution of course, if you are ok drinking fecal water that is your personal election but most people don't like it.