Immortal University 28: Isabella

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
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Jan 26, 2008
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Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 28th in the storied series (the league ruled that the Romans used up their eligibility for some time after that super easy Caesar start).

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:



A cuirasser that beats melee (read: pikes) is the UU, and a decent one. But the amazing thing is that the UB might actually encourage the construction of castles :ack:. Well, we'll see. No matter what, <3 Izzy 4 eva!

Here's the start:



As usual, it's the first start I generate on a random fractal map. Huts are back off this time, as are random events. The start is a bit interesting. Should we opt for religion, we actually have a decent chance with the lake. However, 1S looks to have more early commerce otherwise and will get us a 2h capitol tile. Personally I'll probably gun for 1S although it will be interesting to see if anyone actually opens with religion here.

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also (note, if you want a 2nd starting settler for the AI, sweep the beginunit line per my guide in the WB save). Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

Without further ado, the ZIP file:

View attachment IU IIXXX Isabella.zip
 
25/75 win/loss monarch player here. I'm going for this Immortal Game as my second attempt for my training. Hopefully after another 3 or 4 games, I'll move down to emperor and remain there.

Playing immortal/marathon
 
I'm currently playing Immortal/Epic and I need your guys' help here. I think I'm doing alright, but I'm not quite sure as it's only my second time playing Immortal (last time was the last IU game).

I'll edit this and post a save.
 
OK, I'm going to jump a difficulty level and a half and try this one. Normally a confident Monarch, marginal Emperor player, so we'll see how Immortal works.
 
Just curious, did you win?

You were there, were you not? I got initial settler out too slowly, got badly boxed in by louis, missing copper, and failed a jag rush horribly :lol:.

I've been meaning to head back and replay it for old time sake. And revenge. Unfortunately, I don't forget maps easily, and still remember the first 3 AIs I met, where they are, and how the land mass is situated (possible to circumnavigate via work boat but not all one land mass, despite fractal...the whole thing kind of goes in an ascending diagnol).

That's also why I wish I could see 3-4 deity games on youtube similar to my let's play series. I could memorize the vast majority of them with 1-2 views, and alleviate a ton of the weaknesses in my play instantly...possibly even make the jump with just that..
 
Please Read and Help

Spoiler :

So I *believe* I did a good job on expansion, but my economy isn't doing too great right now. I need CoL, Currency and Calender fairly badly for more happiness, and money. My initial tech path was Polytheism (tried to nab Hinduism, but with Huayna Capac and Saladin in the game, that wasn't likely to happen) Agriculture -> Mining -> Bronze Working (Found Bronze) -> Animal Husbandry -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing -> Sailing -> Iron Working (Trade Mysticism for Hunting) -> Aesthetics and I'm now researching Literature. Barbs haven't been a problem this game, and I actually got 2 barb cities with my chariots, which is nice. Now, I do have some questions:

1) Which city should be my GL/NE site? I am split between either Barcalona or Madrid. Both have lots of food, but Barcalona could use the culture (and has a higher base production). On the otherhand, Madrid could chop it out quite quickly, as it still has lots of forests in-tact. Anyways, I still have my first GP (which I got a couple turns ago) and which city should I settle it in?

2) Who should I attack first? I am split between Victoria and Cyrus. Cyrus has a huge tech lead over me, but I feel like I can catch up once I hit CoL, Calender and Currency. Cyrus is very big and will be hard to take down later in the game. Victoria isn't very strong, and I'd prefer to take her out before she gets redcoats. Economically they both have very good land, but Cyrus is bigger.

3) How should I got about attaining CoL, Currency and Calender? I was thinking I could self tech CoL after Literature, and trade it for Calender, in which I could then attempt to trade both of those for Currency + Monotheism or Priesthood or something like that. Thoughts?

 

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It was over even more quickly than your first attempt, TMIT...

Spoiler :
Was a chariot rush on Hammurabi completely unreasonable at Immortal? 8 chariots at 1750BC got the smackdown laid on them by two bowmen and a spear in the capital.
 
Not sure if I'll get a chance to play this, but moving south and settling on the plains hill seems like the obvious choice to me. Lose 2 grasslands, 2 plains and 1 grass hill.
Gain early +1hpt, levee access (these IU's always seem to run into the industrial era for me) and whatever might happen to lie in the fog (probably mountains and desert >.<)
 
Please Read and Help

Spoiler :

So I *believe* I did a good job on expansion, but my economy isn't doing too great right now. I need CoL, Currency and Calender fairly badly for more happiness, and money. My initial tech path was Polytheism (tried to nab Hinduism, but with Huayna Capac and Saladin in the game, that wasn't likely to happen) Agriculture -> Mining -> Bronze Working (Found Bronze) -> Animal Husbandry -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing -> Sailing -> Iron Working (Trade Mysticism for Hunting) -> Aesthetics and I'm now researching Literature. Barbs haven't been a problem this game, and I actually got 2 barb cities with my chariots, which is nice. Now, I do have some questions:

1) Which city should be my GL/NE site? I am split between either Barcalona or Madrid. Both have lots of food, but Barcalona could use the culture (and has a higher base production). On the otherhand, Madrid could chop it out quite quickly, as it still has lots of forests in-tact. Anyways, I still have my first GP (which I got a couple turns ago) and which city should I settle it in?

2) Who should I attack first? I am split between Victoria and Cyrus. Cyrus has a huge tech lead over me, but I feel like I can catch up once I hit CoL, Calender and Currency. Cyrus is very big and will be hard to take down later in the game. Victoria isn't very strong, and I'd prefer to take her out before she gets redcoats. Economically they both have very good land, but Cyrus is bigger.

3) How should I got about attaining CoL, Currency and Calender? I was thinking I could self tech CoL after Literature, and trade it for Calender, in which I could then attempt to trade both of those for Currency + Monotheism or Priesthood or something like that. Thoughts?


I really want to finish my game, but I really don't know what to do. Help please! :D
 
It's so nice to have a finan....er. Right. Or not.

Immortal/Normal

To 1 AD

Spoiler :


Well its not like I feel like playing nice today.



Wait...I've seen this somewhere before. Where was it again? Immortal U 27? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Pillaged to hell, he can just sit there without being able to build anything or expand for most of the game. And I took akkad with my fast 6 chariots. Haha! Your UU sux k die!

So I grab a couple barb cities to the south, settle my land to block. The tech path was AG -----> AH -----> wheel -----> Pottery (yes seriously) ----> mining -----> BW ----> writing -----> aesthetics and start trading. I'm actually going to use drama for trade bait this game. Cities at 1 AD, will hook up iron soon to get some swords for that hill barb city and unlock HE (have an axe at 9 xp).











As you can see, he finally got a spear there somehow. I guess I got careless. Oh well. By now, the damage is obviously done. Where is he going to settle if I stop the war?!



To lib

Spoiler :


Nowhere, that's where.



I get beat to lib by ONE TURN



Darius seriously poached that crap in 3 turns of research. What the hell?

He gets astro and goes off settling the random landmass out there too so gets ahead of me in land. At least he doesn't declare at pleased and isn't going culture. He takes vicky as a voluntary vassal, HC takes hammy as one.

I'm OK in diplo here so I just head for democracy...might as well make my land mean something.



To 1525 AD.

Spoiler :


Research picks up for me:





But apparently for darius too, since he has to be annoying.



I miss the tech rate on the toku map already.

On the bright side, since darius isn't culture whoring I can turn on HC with impunity at infantry/arty (favorite civic will keep persia @ pleased almost no matter what I do here until I declare on him). I thought about SP + workshops since persia got kremlin but i'm not sure if that's actually faster than just cashrushing in my current position...probably not. It looks like UN will go to darius which means I'll have to beat on him both until vicky breaks free AND I capture the UN :sad:. Well actually he has the AP too so maybe I'll go that route.

Again, IF I can pull that off anyway, I'll be in command of the game of course. Fortunately darius picks science a lot so his stacks probably won't be that impressive. Arty vs tanks in the field kind of sucks but what can you do...as long as I have a lot of it I'll beat him.

Oh...by the way...Akkad has way more culture than Babylon. Akkad is only 4% hammy's now! Hammy's cap is about 11% mine. That choke really, REALLY put a damper on our neighbor. They can't whip effectively without improved tiles, and there's no commerce, no chops for infra...etc. The screenshots should be pretty telling.



Note: I WANT a great wall start that isn't isolated soon. I want to see what horse archers + infiltrate + support revolt can do to the AI :lol:.

It's hard to get enough EP AND get to guilds quickly AND get enough HAs to upgrade or knights but if one can do it knights + spy is pretty effective also...but I want to try since non-justinian use of knights is rare for humans :p.
 
It was over even more quickly than your first attempt, TMIT...

Spoiler :
Was a chariot rush on Hammurabi completely unreasonable at Immortal? 8 chariots at 1750BC got the smackdown laid on them by two bowmen and a spear in the capital.

Spoiler :
8 Chariots by 1750 BC is definitely not enough. I would recommend having 10 by 2000 BC. I tend to chop a lot (and whip, as well) in order to reach that goal.
 
150 BC

Spoiler :


So I decided to go for Spain on a lake on immortal. Risky I know. I settled in place and started working the lake. And waited... and waited. Buddhism was founded in a far away land. No big surprise there. Then, one turn from polytheism completing, I get beaten to it!!!! :mad: :mad: Oh well. So now, I have no workers, crappy techs, and lots of land to settle. Great.

I went about spamming settlers and workers. I didn't pay much heed to my economy. I did tech pottery before spamming my fourth city, but otherwise didn't do much else. If I had played this map straight up with worker first going agri--AH, I think I'd be toasting the AI now as the land is great. I'm catching up even after my goofball opening.

Seville is settled in a spot that's better than Madrid!!!

I teched towards aesthetics (begging gold from Darius who get early currency) and then traded for alpha. I then tech whored for math and monarchy and am now swimming in :). Once I get calendar, I'll be set for the game I think, as I have dye, spice, silk, and banana all in my culture.

Some funny shots:


Saladin wouldn't trade with me because I was a heathen. So I adopted NSR for 5 turns to get monarchy. I love spiritual!



I'm doing ok on the tech board. My research rate is atrocious right now and will be for some time as I need currency/col to fix my economy. I'm going to try for the GL, although I'm tempted to skip it as I'm going to have to chop lots of trees if I'm going to beat Darius to it (who teched literature surprisingly early).

Hammy has no iron as far as I can tell, and I have ivory on him. I may even go for a phantapult war on him if I feel ambitious. We'll see. The overall tech rate is very slow (except for Darius) so I'm not too worried. And Darius doesn't spam troops so he's easy to kill later.

My land:


Note my little fur camp I managed to sneak in :lol:
 
Spoiler :
8 Chariots by 1750 BC is definitely not enough. I would recommend having 10 by 2000 BC. I tend to chop a lot (and whip, as well) in order to reach that goal.

Spoiler :
You can't do it on normal speed with spain. If you go BW first then by the time you get AH you're not hitting pre-2k BC unless you had a commerce resource or two to put you along.

If you go AH + the wheel before BW (and possibly even mining!) you can start them sooner and hit sooner but not with as much force.

The reason I chose the latter is that I know full well how quickly the Immortal AI can hook up copper. I wound up having to compromise as I didn't have near enough chariots to take the capitol, but I had enough to completely screw hammy over by taking his good flood plain city and pillaging every tile improvement he had at one point. If I'd paid more attention I probably could have prevented his hooking up copper in his 3rd city (it wasn't iron, because he did not yet have iron at 1 AD! Haha!), and choked him long enough to mosey some cats down there and finish the job. But, spilt milk :sad:.



Kadazzle, can you post some screen shots in your spoilers? I'm going to bed now but I'll have a look tomorrow when I can (I have to paint a bit outside too so we'll see).
 
I'm new to the Immortal University and fairly new to Immortal. I need help! I'm not going any further till I get some advice. Spoilers to 175 AD are below; so is the save.

Spoiler :
The land immediately around Madrid wasn't great, so I went all out on a chariot rush of Hammurabi. I teched agr>ah>mining>bw>pottery>hunting>writing. Settled Barcelona right between the corn and horses. Built barracks, 4 workers, and chopped chariots like mad. Anytime I whipped I whipped workers so I could 2 pop whip and get the +25% bonus on the hammers from expansive.

I attacked Babylon first with 15 chariots around 1200 BC. he had 3 bowmen in the capital (and Stonehenge to boot :goodjob:). Detoured to the NW to take one of his cities newly built. Joined a few new chariots with the survivors and took Akkad, which was on the incredible floodplains site (and is the holy site for Judaism as well as the Great Wall). Took his last city next to the elephants.

Meanwhile I settled Seville to the far west to cut off Huayna Capac, settling on top of the fur and claiming deer and stone (will come in handy for UB). During all this my economy completely tanked. Plunder and cottages kept me floating at 0% science even with a loss. When I actually started making a profit I built up some cash and deficit researched writing. Went back to 0% science until I had libraries where needed, then deficit researched alphabet, aided by some barb city plunder. Saladin and Moao didn't have alphabet so I traded for iron working, sailing, archery, and masonry. Started building research while teching currency (which nobody has, btw) and am 7 turns away in 175 BC.

I stopped there because the diplomatic situation is very precarious. I just now opened borders with everyone. Probably a mistake to wait that long but I didn't have sailing so I didn't want them to get a trade bonus that I wouldn't get. Also took a -1 hit with Darius for declaring war on his friend Hammurabi.

But the religious situation is even dicier. Huayna Capac is Hindu, Darius is Confucian, Victoria is Jewish, and Saladin and Mao are Buddhist. I haven't adopted a state religion, hoping it would keep me out of the crosshairs but Darius is WHEOOHRN right now, Huayna Capac is assembling a large army to the west. Am I in deep doodoo? What should I do?


Any advice would be welcome. Thanks!
 

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