NC XXXV: Julius Caesar

dalamb

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Joined
May 9, 2006
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Kingston, Ontario
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for advanced players to help people who play at Noble difficulty and below to learn how to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice. This time: a nice Praetorian romp -- for a little while. Our next leader is Julius Caesar:

ORG lets him conquer a bigger empire, and IMP gives him Great Generals faster to keep improving the military.

His UU and UB:
  • UB: Forum, a market that gives a 25% boost to GPP in its city -- a nice help for a non-PHI leader.
  • UU: the infamous Praetorian, a super-swordsman often viewed as the best UU of its era, to the extent where some people figure a Pangaea conquest with JC is too easy. But don't worry; it won't be as easy as that. It's a map with two continents too far apart for galleys, so after taking over the initial continent you'll need to tech to Astronomy before conquering the rest.
The map parameters:
  • Custom Continents: 2
  • World Size: Standard
  • Climate: Temperate
  • Sea Level: Medium
  • Era: Ancient
The start:

Lots of forest and seafood. As promised in the bullpen, I made sure iron wasn't too far away.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 35 Julius". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
 

Attachments

  • NC 35 Julius.zip
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Separate message for naive personal remarks:

I've been told the standard tech path for Rome ought to be BW > IW > Wheel, so that's what I'll do. With this map I think I'd want to settle in place on the plains hill and build workboat > workboat > warrior. After that, I'm not so sure, either for build or tech. Maybe currency > CoL relatively soon for the economic benefit and some Forums. I've also been told that Stonehenge might actually be worth doing for Rome, as a way of getting conquered cities to expand faster; is Masonry and quarrying the stone worth doing? or just build a worker and chop it out?

Edit: I'll play my usual combination of Noble/Epic. The various rounds in later messages:
4000-2525 BC: getting started, initial dotmap
2525-1550 BC: some strategic questions
1550 BC-730 AD: war
730-1919 AD: space ship victory
 
IW first and let the praets roll!
 
I will play this one when I get home from work. I would definitely think about taking a run at stonehenge by settling on the stone. 3 hammers for the capital + it saves you quarrying the stone, + you gain the 2nd fish. Unfortunately, you only have 1 guaranteed mine, but you have a lot of dark tiles so a couple other hills could show up in the BFC. I'm not sure what the best tech path would be for that, because Myst and masonry would have to be stuck in. Maybe BW > Myst > Masonry > IW > TW?

BW > IW > TW > Myst > masonry? Maybe this would be too slow and would result in losing stonehenge. I'm not sure. I'm looking forward to playing it later though. Rome games are always fun.
 
I've played current LHC, IU, and MS^ so I'll have a go at this to relax somewhat. I'll probably tack on archery to the computers and barbs though.

Do note that the noble's club was started by people AT the warlord-prince level (first was hosted by krick IIRC), and that Bleys and myself were actually prince players at its inception. After Bleys stopped posting frequently the series was left alone until I got bored :lol:. It might seem like I was hosting it as an advanced player for beginners, but actually I'm just one of those beginner holdovers, and the club is a part of my improvement!
 
I didn't notice its significance when I posted the map, but moving to that stone sure does look tempting, especially with the extra fish. 1N would get extra production from the two hills in the long term, though, as well as getting the fish now; is the rush to get Praets out fast significant enough to justify losing the extra few :hammers: per turn in the long run?
 
Oh .... JC :goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

I'm definitely gonna play this one today .... i'm just gonna keep it simple settle in place and beeline IW and see if that works :D

It's been a while since i went on a Preat rampage :mischief:

There better be some iron around or else .... :mad:
 
Prince/Normal

1000BC
Spoiler :

Settling on stone turned out to be wonderfull. And not to mentioned about the iron in the BFC. :lol: CynicalMagician, thanks for the tip, normally i'll just settle in place w/o thinking.

So, I started moving on the stone, and settled the next turn, building wb->wb->warrior->warrior->warrior until pop hit 5 then workers and settlers, researching BW-IW->TW->Farming.

I moved the warrior sw thinking it was a tiny peninsula. but it was bigger than I thought. so the warrior kept moving alone the seashore and quickly met Joao. Hmmm... an easy and close target to rush.

I slowed down my build speed for the first settler in favor of researching IW considering dalamb had stated that the iron would be within easy reach of the 2nd city at least. however, when the IW was researched, it was just ok! the iron is already within the BFC of the capital. now, let's build some praets and kick Joao's ass!

So i was debating where the 2nd city should be located. It should going towards Joao. however, if i settle 1E of the pig, the city will lack of both food and production for a while since i was not planning to get myst anytime soon and i was far away from AH. if 1NE of pig, i could work on the clam, but it will lack production for good. so i pick the 1SE of the rice for the site because the riverside rice could give me 5 food and at least 2 mines to work before the border pops. what's more, when the capital pops the 2nd time, it will get 2 trees to chop. in the mean time, maybe Joao could build a city for me around the pig? :cool: but, i forgot i didn't have Farming yet. :cry: so a few turns was wasted before i could really work on that town. :cry:

After I got 3 workers, i moved to military. iron and the 2 plain hills were mined and a few trees were chopped. and you know what? Joao kindly built his 2nd city 2E of the pig. how nice of him!

I got 4 praets and started the invasion, they quickly capture 2 of Joao's cities including the capital. However, the last city was a hilly copper city with 2 axemen. :mad: those 2 axemen ate 2 of my praets before fallen. and a few turns before that, I met Zulu's scouts but there homeland was unknown.

1080BC, 4 cities with SH and Mids built at rome. Revolting to reps and slavery. About 1 turn away from Alphabet. This map seems to be extra big for a standard continents map. Should I go city spamming here or wait for currency? with limited exploration of the map, zulu could be either down south or southeast or anywhere except the western peninsula. That's my backyard. I have at least 10-12 cities place to expand. It's a crossroad.

Screenshots
Spoiler :


Iron in BFC and where should the 2nd city go?


Joao built a city for me :lol:


Joao gone, now what? :confused:

 
Hmm this looks like a fun one, haven't played with praetorians yet. Do you guys wait untill catapuls to attack? Last time I tried to do early rushes, I failed miserably :(
 
Hmm this looks like a fun one, haven't played with praetorians yet. Do you guys wait untill catapuls to attack? Last time I tried to do early rushes, I failed miserably :(

with Preatorians .... NADA!!! :D, in fact you dont need to wait for cats with any rush, then it's not really a rush ...

what you do in this case is, tech BW then IW and go kill someone. :lol::lol::lol:
 
Prince/Epic.
Given the UU I considered marathon but keeping to a constant speed allows better game comparing. Rome will settle on the stone, the warrior will explore to the east and the build order will be workboat, Stonehenge with mysticism as the opening tech. If there is an argument for a better opening it would be welcomed and instructive. Could Stonehenge wait?
 
I think if you're going for stonehenge, settling on the stone and teching BW > Masonry > Myst > IW might be best. BW lets you chop the henge if you're in a hurry, and sometimes you can whip at 2 turns to go, saving 1 turn against a hypothetical eager AI rival. Masonry might not even be necessary if you plan on chopping the wonder but I'd personally rather save the trees for a settler or two.

I don't recall whether any of the opponents start with Mysticism; they were random. You can look at the list in the opening screen of "Custom Scenario" if you like. Edit: considering Indiansmoke's comment in the next message: I don't even recall for sure whether there are hills up north (though I think we can fog-gaze one)! Maybe my memory problems make me a good map-maker -- can't recall too many spoilers after even just a few hours. :lol:
 
My version of the question is "when you move to the stone: if every tile we can't see right now is junk, do you move back or not?"

good question, the gamble is hills really, will you have any on the other side? Because if 0 hills then your production will be limited to capital tile and one plains hil.

But yes the 3 hammer start is worth a possible 2 turn loss, if you return back.
 
Cool, I may have to give this one a go...
 
wow .... what a fun map :D

It's the first time in a long while i am playing Epic (obviously to get more milage from the Preats ;)), and i must say it does feel like i have dropped down a difficulty level, i actually had to check to see if it was Monarch ....

Monarch / Epic - Upto 1250 BC
Spoiler :
Settled in place. Well, the portugese just died. Shaka will die very soon. My stratergy was very simple, teched BW>IW and from thereon whatever else i needed (not important :D), built workboats and warriors initially for city to grow, then spammed workers + 1 settler to claim iron quickly. chopped everything around the capital for Preats. So far letting 2nd city develop before using for military purposes.We also popped a GG on the last turn just as Joao fell.





 
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