Nobles' Club XXXVI: Gilgamesh

dalamb

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May 9, 2006
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Kingston, Ontario
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

This time: Gilgamesh of Sumer:

Sumer starts with Agriculture and the Wheel, which happen to be a full set of prerequisites for Pottery if you want to get a really early start on cottages and granaries. His UU and UB:
  • UB: Ziggurat, a courthouse available with Priesthood instead of the more expensive Code of Laws.
  • UU: Vulture: a stronger axeman (6 vs 5), with the same base strength as the swordsman without the city attack bonus. It has +25% vs melee instead of the axeman's 50%, but with the increased strength they both work out to 7.5, so you lose nothing. Edit: oops; all mods affect defender strength, so vultures lose to axemen.
The map parameters:
  • Custom Continents: 2
  • World Size: Standard
  • Climate: Temperate
  • Sea Level: Low
  • Era: Ancient
The start:

Gold in the BFC makes me and Sumer happy!
Spoiler map edits :
I swapped with another civ to make sure we were on the larger of the two continents. I also reduced the amount of desert overall; does anybody know a good map script that gives a lot less desert than normal on Continents and Custom Continents?
Finally, a cut and paste (and slight edit) of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 36 Gilgamesh Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal if you want them to start with both Archery and Hunting). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
 

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I plan on doing some espionage this time around, with those early courthouses, and thus might try to chop the Great Wall. So I think Mining > BW > Masonry > Pottery > AH > Mysticism > Med > Priest. Maybe put Mysticism before Masonry because that means researching Masonry cheaper, but some other civilization might get to the Great Wall first if it has some advantage like starting with Mining or Mysticism, having stone nearby, or being Industrious. I build these maps enough days in advance of posting that I usually forget such details by the time I make these posts.

I might combine with a Vulture rush, since they're slightly tougher on city attack than axemen, but that's not my main goal with this game.

Starting with wheel and having a prerequisite for Animal Husbandry means someone could go AH first for a chariot rush (if there are horses nearby, which I forget. In case you didn't notice, I get frustrated about my very poor memory.).
 
Gilgamesh! :goodjob:

One of my favorite leaders, the only "problem" with him is that he can do everything very well early on. Vultures are great rush units as they are stronger than normal axes against archers. He can also do a great REX - early and cheap courts and cheap libraries while the Creative trait blocks off land quickly.

Start looks very strong - solid food, good production, plenty of forest to chop, good cottage land, and GOLD! Settle in place for a bureau abuse capital. Start with worker and tech mining>BW while scouting around. If there is space and good land go into full REX mode and block AIs while using the gold to sustain the REX and head for Priesthood for early courthouses. If there is an AI close or we're boxed in will settle city #2 for copper and Vulturize our enemies.

Will give this a go this evening.
 
Been a long time since i last played Civ,
Will give this a try ASAP,
Good luck everyone
 
grassland wheat ... ... interesting
 
I will give it a try on monarch, PIG mod v0.7x. I'm not really sure I will find the energy to post my progress, it's rather hard for me, but I want to show my interest on this ; Gilgamesh is already one of my favorite leader :p
 
Strong commerce start. Gold in the BFC of the capital and those flood plains and riverside wines are nice. I may have to give this one a try too, its been a while since I've done a NC game.
 
I edited a bit, but IMHO not too much.
Spoiler my evil map-editing :
The gold was already there. I added the wheat, wanting at least one Agriculture resource in the BFC, but maybe should have picked a different one? I changed some deserts to plains (after many, many, regenerates and attempts to use other map types that would give less desert). Some of the islands around the map are bigger than the 1-tile they used to be and now have a seafood instead of barren water. We're on the 3-opponent continent instead of the 2-opponent.

Maybe a couple more edits I'm forgetting.
@TheLazyHase (and anyone else using the Monarch or Immortal saves): let me know if there are any problems. I don't expect anything severe, but can take it into account for the next map I do.
 
Thanks dalamb! I was hoping Gilg-man would be next since you posted your poll. Look forward to this one.
 
Looks pretty fun, I think I'll give it a shot. I had a blast with NC 35 Julius, but I've never played Gilgamesh, so this should be more of a challenge.
 
I've actually been playing around with the Protective trait recently with Qin and Toku. Seems to be an overall unpopular trait. Generally, I don't even bother building walls and castles. However, the free drill promotion bumped to drill 2 and more with barracks, etc. is a nice feature for archery and gunpowder units. Probably the trait with the least synergy in the game, except for maybe Toku, but it has it's advantages if used correctly.

I think I will go Mining>BW first if not least to get the UU online for a possible early rush to secure some land on the continent. However, I may think about doing my first cultural victory ever. I'll need to get some religion online. After early warring, I may decide to run as peaceful a game as possible.

I feel that I'm getting strong at Noble but will play one last NC game at Noble level just to make sure I'm good enough to move up for good.
 
I will let the cow for another city and prepare a strong capitale by settling W of the gold. Cottage spam incoming, and civil service first target.

Mining -> BW is possible, and may offer good rush option, so I will go for that. After that, it will depend on the map, either archery if no copper available, or priesthood. Because of fast ziggurat spawning, I think fishing, and maybe archery, will be left alone to be stolen.

(BTW, I will play with a mod, but at least for the opening move it will change nothing ; the only significant difference is that vulture are a little more costly in PIG, but they are still cheap enough to kill dudes)
 
Thanks for hosting this game dalamb, been looking forward to this one. :)

I love creative civs! They make the early game so much easier and I never seem to have a bad game with this trait on board.

regarding the start...

I'm debating using up a turn to settle 1 south, gaining 2 floods and 1 wine, lose out on a few hills though! (although I think there is atleast 1 to the west in the fog. As this map is low sealevel there should be plenty of space to rex pretty hard, I want to see if I can beat monarch playing a peaceful game... Ofcourse if a neighbour is too close that might change :mischief:

Will probably tech animal husb first then mining > bronze, after that I might get pottery > writing before heading for preisthood.

Havn't read the spoilers for the map edits, I like surprises!
 
What is the PIG mod?
 
Prince/Epic.
First time with Gilgamesh and he's a puzzler, ain't he? Creative, protective and the UB argue for REXing while the UU is a matter of early war or a waste. Probably best to play it safe until the advantages of terrain and the nearby opposition are revealed. So, I'll settle in place (a decent enough spot), go mining/BW and open with warrior/worker.
 
interesting grassland wheat. Just the same as corn so what's the real point? Anyway this looks like a very fun game to play with this cap and second city spot.
 
The first war. (880 BC)

Spoiler :

At first, I didn't want to rush everything, but having Mansa Musa AND Sury so near were a little daunting.

Tech wise, it goes Mine -> BW -> myst -> med -> priest -> pottery -> writing -> mathematic -> alpha -> currency. AH were found in a hut, and I had researched Hunting when I began to see Sury's chariot, I can't recall when exactly.

It was not really a Sury Rush ; rather, I waited for mathematics before cutting tree, made 12 vulture with 2 spear, and smashed the three city he managed to get into what I decided to be MY territory.



The ruin is the other city ; the third is to the north, 1N of spice

After that, I waited for alpha to complete before peace ; out of boredom I have taken the second-to-last city of Sury with the ~8 remaining vulture. Now, I only have to wait 10 turn and build some more vulture to remove him definitely from the place.



Religion wise, Mansa had Hinduism and judaism. Sury stupidly goes judaism while I'm the only MM buddy. Still, I plan to take his capital at the very least ; it's too close to my capital and is two-time holy. I just have to wait that he build at least one shrine, and to have something to smash skirmisher, because vulture rush on skirmisher is too costly for me.

By the way, under PIG mod I was at a significant disavantadge : vulture are more costly (the price of a sword IIRC), and slavery were giving me +1 unhealthy per city, significantly hindering city growth. Still, a very easy war for now, and I can now claim land unhindered. Mansa is already choked on the south and Tokugawa is too far to really take the land I want.

My capital :


My first city, geared to mass produce units :

(librarie because I would have gone into strike if I had not stopped to build vulture at some point)

And the tech situation :

 

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Noble/Epic/BUFFY to 600BC (guess I'll be first to start reporting)

Spoiler :
Well, I felt like jumping right in and getting a start on this game, since for some reason I was excited about playing a leader that I haven't played before but that owned me in previous games. I thought about going Prince for this one, but decided I'd stick with Noble one more time before moving up for good.

Researched Mining/BW/surprisingly Hunting/AH and then path to Priesthood for Ziggys/Oracle. My thought on Hunting was twofold -speed up AH and bring on Archery soon to take advantage of the promos. Protective Archers rock early in my opinion. Also, I wanted to work that Gold asap and knew I would not grow fast enough at this point to work the cows.

First builds were Worker/Warrior/Worker/Warrior/Settler/Settler. I whipped the second worker so the warrior came out fast. Sent Warriors scouting East and West to find Khmer/Mansa/Toku. One Warrior popped another Warrior from a hut so I had some good fog busting going early. Some time later Churchill shows up in a raft.

My initial intent was to get a settler out fast and down to the stone or marble to the south near Mansa in order to block and secure these resources. However, copper popped up just to the North with some good food, so I sent my first settler there to bring the UU online. There were some copper sights further out that may have been better, but I didn't want to take the time going that distance. Second city settled near gold/stone/gold to the southeast - kind of a strange desert spot and will be interesting to see how that city matures. Regardless, I want the Mids bad.

Couple of warriors scouting south around 2250 BC near Mansa. Mansa has an exposed worker on the border. I don't always do this at this level, but decided to attack and grab this worker. Anyway, Mansa is likely an early target for me to wipe out so I'm not worried about rep. I plan to warm up Khmer and Churchill. Toku is usually a lost cause and difficult to attack early.

After grabbing the necessary early tech and the Priesthood path (WHICH I POPPED FROM A HUT THE FIRST TURN I STARTED RESEARCHING IT), I then chose to research Aesthetics with the intent of using the Oracle on Code of Laws.

In 1550 BC I finish Aesthetics, build the Oracle, and take CoL free. I didn't think of it at the time - given Gilgy, but other than founding Conf, I wonder if CoL was such a rush. I do want CS fast though for Bureau.

Okay, this is interesting, I founded 3 religions (Hindu, Judaism, and Conf) by 1550 BC without even trying. Well, I expected Conf. The AI seems to be teching slower than usual and not emphasizing religion at all. Khmer is the only one to convert so far. I'm waiting to see how things fall first. I expected Mansa to be up there, although I did stifle him a bit by attacking him early.

Barb city pops up just to the south between me and Mansa near the wine. I take the city in a few turns - for healing -with one Gilgy super archer. This becomes my fourth city and should be nice commerce with wine/flood plains. In the meantime, I send a settler down to the marble/wheat/cow/lake just west of Mansa's start. I was amazed that Mansa had not expanded here yet, though I got there just in time as he was sending a settler that way.

It's now around 600 BC. I have five decent cities. The cap is about to finish the Mids and will turn the the Great Library (I have Lit) before taking on some GS's, although I don't necessarily plan the cap for a GP farm. I want it to be a good bureau city. Two decent prod cities including the copper one to the north. I have a settler in the works to hopefully send east to take the clams/bu-ku elephants before Khmer gets there. I really hoped to have more cities than this though with the Zigs, but I guess it's not bad. I went ahead and started teching Alpha, although I'd planned to skip it for trade, the spies might actually be good in this game.

Next targets - Civil Service and Mansa. I want him gone from this world even though he's not such a bad guy.


 
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