Nobles' Club XXXVII: Victoria

dalamb

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

This time: Victoria of England:
Victoria.jpg

Financial means a commerce advantage, and on a watery map like Archipelago usually means you can place lots of coastal cities that bring in lots of :commerce:, and will (eventually) get lots of "intercontinental" trade. The Great Lighthouse might be highly attractive. Imperialistic means faster settlers and Great Generals. Faster settlers means faster REXing, and FIN might help pay for a larger empire. Faster GG production in combination with the powerful Redcoats might make Renaissance-era warfare attractive.

Her UU and UB:
  • UB: Stock Exchange, a bank giving 65% :gold: bonus instead of 50%, which synergizes well with FIN.
    StockExchange.jpg
  • UU: Redcoat, a very popular UU because of its 25% bonus versus gunpowder units; it's the only UU based on riflemen, already regarded as a strong unit on its own.
    Redcoat.jpg
The map parameters:
  • Archipelago, Snaky Continents. This usually means lots of water. It's more likely that you'll have galley-era contact with some continents than with Islands, but galley-era circumnavigation isn't all that likely.
  • World Size: Standard
  • Climate: Temperate
  • Sea Level: Medium
  • Era: Ancient
The start:
start.jpg


Finally, a cut and paste (and slight edit) of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 37 Victoria Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal if you want them to start with both Archery and Hunting). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
 

Attachments

I'll be going Noble, Epic as usual, and will likely try for early Sailing and the Great Lighthouse -- likely BW > AG > AH > Wheel (too bad the river didn't connect with the pigs) > Pottery > Sailing. I plan to settle in place and move the warrior 2SE to the tribal village.

That is, if I get around to this before everyone else finishes. RL takes most of my time lately.
 
I'm not sure I have ever played Vicky so this should be fun. At first glance she's the perfect archipelago leader. Financial for good use of coastal resources and early commerce, fishing and mining are excellent for a GLH beeline, and imperialistic for mass settler spam after GLH.

We'll see what the map is like, but usually on snaky continents archipelago getting GLH is like playing a difficulty level (or two) easier. All hail the power of foreign intercontinental trade routes!
 
Will be taking this on Monarch/Epic

Not a bad looking start, Clam & Pig and a few hills for early production, ellies near by for an early :). Shame the 3 hammer plains forest hill isn't in the first ring of the BFC for a quicker workboat but you can't have everything.

Will probably go Workboat > Worker for first builds and Aggr > Animal Husb > Bronze on the tech front.

Great Light House is always a option on these maps providing it doesn't interfere too much with expansion.

Cheers Dalamb :goodjob:
 
Immortal / Normal - 50AD. Immortal Save. Sorry for the image size, photobucket wasn't working.
Spoiler :
England in 50AD:

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@ Ignorant Teacher:
Spoiler :
Why isn't Newcastle 1 NE to pick up the second gold? Did you not want close borders with Suleiman or something, or was that just a mistake?
 
I may give this shot as my first monarch game. financial trait plus archipelago map works to players advantage and may as well give it a go....

<edit - Will likely go for GLH on this map type. moving warrior wont help much, and moving 1E or 1SE loses an un-forested plains hill in the BFC which could be a strategic resource ? maybe settle in place. >
 
Hi there! :D

I am a total noob with this game, but you seem a friendly dinne... erm... lot, so I hope this'll be fun. (And if it isn't... do you really want to mess with tigers? just saying... :P) I am glad that I have the chance to play the same map as others and share tips/advice and whatnot.

As for the leader... In RL, the Mises fan in me really hates Victoria, but I hope I'll be able to get over this and allow her puniness to join me as a civ leader. I like the financial, but I'll sure miss the Philosophical, which Alexander had. (I like the Greeks) I'll also miss the goody hut gatherer scout of the Greeks, but then again, I'll enjoy the faster early expansions. That being said... all that's left is testing how to use spoiler tags and then starting the game.

Spoiler :
Rrr!1!!one


I'll play it in Noble, Marathon speed.

~~~
To Ignorant Teacher: how do you get the "will grow in 1 turn" alert? Going through all of my cities to see which grows next was the biggest pain for me so far. And as a marathon fan, you can image it was that more annoying.
 
@ CivilizedTiger, 1st welcome to CFC and it comes from the BUG mod which you can download from the Creation and Customization section of the forum.
 
I'll be going Noble, Epic as usual, and will likely try for early Sailing and the Great Lighthouse -- likely BW > AG > AH > Wheel (too bad the river didn't connect with the pigs) > Pottery > Sailing. I plan to settle in place and move the warrior 2SE to the tribal village.

That is, if I get around to this before everyone else finishes. RL takes most of my time lately.

I was going to settle in place as well and pop the hut with my warrior. But I'm having a hard time figuring out my research path.

What's your rationale for going with BW and Ag first? Since we start with Fishing and we have Clams in the BFC, it doesn't seem like we need Ag right off the bat. I was thinking Hunting first, which gets us to AH with fewer beakers than Ag.

I don't want to put off BW for too long -- in my experience Horses are pretty scarce on Archipelago maps so if there's Copper nearby I want to grab it.
 
I also was thinking hunting > AH since hunting is the cheaper prereq to AH and we have phants nearby with no wheat or rice visible.

now...having played one turn......

Spoiler :

settled in place, and I see cows in the BFC, so I will build worker first instead of workboat while teching to AH..then the improved cow will speed up the workboat as my 2nd build while growing pop 1 to 2.
 
Emperor/Epic to 10 AD:

Spoiler :

Settled in place, with ivory nearby and TWO! AH resources, I started research with Hunting>AH while building a workboat.

Popped hunting then wheel from huts! Had I known hunting would pop, it would have been best to build a worker first.

Expanded with one city to the south (corn+clams) before getting started on....

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


And with open borders you can see how good GLH is:

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


That's +9:commerce: just from trade routes :eek:.

Managed to unlock HE with some barbs:
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Also went for metal casting early for a fast build (had copper):

Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


So at 1 AD the empire looks like this:

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


I settled on Sully's island because that city is just so good. It is also picking up intercontinental trade routes with Hatty for +9:commerce: so it is actually a very significant boost to my economy. And with triple fish and double gold mines.......yeah, a nice city.

I'm in full war prep mode right now. Hatty must go - her cultural pressure is pretty rough, she already has the Jewish shrine up (+10-15:gold: already), and heck she's on my land. I already have HBR and construction in a turn so I'm going to cataphant her. I have barracks and stables up in production cities (most of my cities are focused on production) and forges will be up shortly. Heroic Epic in 14 or so turns. Then spam phants and cats until my continent is clean.


 
@ Ignorant Teacher:
Spoiler :
Why isn't Newcastle 1 NE to pick up the second gold? Did you not want close borders with Suleiman or something, or was that just a mistake?

Spoiler :
I was going to put a second city there to grab the riverside grass and the horse, but got beat to it by Silly by 2 turns. Either way, I guess that, in the long runs, the extra fish is more important than a second gold.
 
@IT

Spoiler :
But 1NE would have given you the extra fish and the 2nd gold.
 
Emperor/Epic to 1080AD:
Spoiler :

So I built up phants and cats and was ready to go:

Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Then that "witch" bribes Sully:

Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


That kinda sucked for 2 main reasons. I was going to lose my triple fish double gold city and it also shut down ALL my foreign trade routes. This really made my economy take a dive, since it is largely trade based.

Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


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The gold for peace almost pays off because I could immediately open borders and get better trade routes. A notice that Hatty did me a favor and built a few nice wonders.

As I often do, I stopped building units a little too early and ended up with not enough to quickly finish Hatty, who was down to two cities. But it was a good opportunity to backfill anyways:

Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg


The RNG was being nice to me:
Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg


Popped gems in my capital (extra nice since I had lots of forges up early) and popped an extra iron next to Canterbury, which just happened to be my HE city :goodjob:.

Round 2, and the expected happens:
Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg


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Tech is looking good. I had to self research through Philo and Paper (my GP production has been very poor) but I did get a GS in time to bulb education. Then I took a risk and made a detour to get compass+optics before taking liberalism:

Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg


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So I have astro and two caravels exploring. They should find the other civs soon and then I can get good trade routes again for a much needed boost to my economy. I also want resource and gpt trades. I haven't seen any other caravels so there's a decent chance I'm ahead on tech.

For now I'm going to do some economic recovery - harbors, courts, and some markets. Meanwhile I'll head toward steel. Galleons+frigates+muskets+cannons = vassals :D

 
Noble/Normal to 1 AD.

Spoiler :

Ah, what a game...

I settled in place, seeing the city borders touched on the north coast I gambled there was no sea food to miss out on, that paid off I think.

Once I met Hatshepsut in 3200 BC I started preparations for a rush. Having just this week read Sisiutil's "The Early Rush" guide I put some of what I learned into practice... I settled the second city away from the capital over at the copper/stone. Not for the copper so much as for the production capabilities, my plan was to warrior rush.

Tech path: Bronze Working, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Masonry, Hunting, Pottery, Sailing... war.

Build order: Worker, worker, settler, warrior x 8, axeman x 1

With a stack of troops, I headed over. Having already scouted the terrain I knew the best attack vector (thanks Sisiutil). Three moves and I was at her capital, defended poorly by three warriors. The axeman cleaned up one, no problem, and it took three more warriors to capture the city in 1400 BC, my earliest rush ever :ar15:
I decided not too keep Thebes, it's not well positioned given the other resources, so I've dot mapped a new city 1SW of where Thebes lay.

Research rate dropped to 10% after the war but it's creeping back up.

Met Suleiman in 900 BC which is rather annoying. I would prefer to have had a bit longer by myself, perhaps being a bit further from him, but never mind. I do have a whole island to myself now.

Wonders: 350 BC The Pyramids, 100 BC Moai Statues.
Quite annoyed I missed out on the Great Lighthouse :(

Thoughts: I was thinking about a culture win, but I really need some more wonders before that happens. Maybe, if I can take Suleiman early I'll try for domination, otherwise, tech to space victory, hopefully before 2030 this time.

Some screen snaps to show planned city locations...

NC37_1.png


NC37_2.png


NC37_3.png


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NC37_6.png

 
@ L-Plate
Spoiler :

Tech path: Bronze Working, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Masonry, Hunting, Pottery, Sailing... war.

Build order: Worker, worker, settler, warrior x 8, axeman x 1

There's some glaring problems with the initial tech and build order. You need to prioritize food before everything. Workboat first is a strong choice while teching straight for AH to get the pigs and cows up. Or build worker first while teching toward AH (although in this case your worker would be sitting around for a little while with nothing to do). But it looks like you didn't have any food heavy tile being worked for at least 50 turns?

If you simply prioritize food I predict a massive improvement in your game.

Probably could have skipped wheel for a while longer in favor of earlier sailing.

Also, I would avoid building the pyramids here. You have no stone and the mids are very expensive. All those hammers could have been used for workers+settlers to give you a much larger empire. If you are going to go for a wonder, the Great Lighthouse is far far superior to the pyramids on this map.
 
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