gallies should be able to enter ocean tiles with a 50 percent chance of sinking

i've had this idea that i wish could be added as an update or at least added to the original civ 4 18 civ map. i believe that gallies should be able to enter ocean tiles with a 50 percent chance of sinking at the end of the turn. clearly in history, a few small ships have been able to cross the ocean. First, the vikings (please excuse my historical incorrectness) clearly did not have galleons. in fact, their ships were the most like the gally unit in the game with the exception of maybe the ships used in early Greece and Rome. My second example is........ get ready for this.....


The Polynesians!!! now, I'm pretty dang sure that the Polynesians DID NOT HAVE GALLEONS. IN FACT, YOU WOULD BE AMAZED BY WHAT THEY CROSSED THE OCEAN IN!

my point is, the ocean was crossed a few times in ships before galleons were invented. so shouldn't galleons be able to enter ocean tiles on the condition that the ship has a 60-80 percent chance of sinking? if anyone would be so kind as to consider this or post your opinion of this on this thread, i would be very grateful and maybe this idea would have a greater chance of being seriously considered.

The problems with pre-industrial ships on oceans (i.e. out of sight of land) are two-fold: navigational and logistical (supplies!). The most important navigational inventions were made following the Middle Ages, which, together with an increase in ship size, allowed long seagoing voyages - and even then the dangers of shipwreck persisted well into our own age. In short, a 50% chance of gallyetype ships sinking in ocean squares (as used in Civ1) is already way too low.

Basically, the Polynesians are an exception, as they did not use navigational instruments:

Navigators traveled to small inhabited islands using only their own senses and knowledge passed by oral tradition from navigator to apprentice. In order to locate directions at various times of day and year, navigators in Eastern Polynesia memorized important facts: the motion of specific stars, and where they would rise and set on the horizon of the ocean; weather; times of travel; wildlife species (which congregate at particular positions); directions of swells on the ocean, and how the crew would feel their motion; colors of the sea and sky, especially how clouds would cluster at the locations of some islands; and angles for approaching harbors.
These wayfinding techniques along with outrigger canoe construction methods, were kept as guild secrets. Generally each island maintained a guild of navigators who had very high status; in times of famine or difficulty these navigators could trade for aid or evacuate people to neighboring islands.

(Quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesia#Polynesian_navigation)

Also, despite theories to the contrary, Polynesians probaby did not cross the Pacific; they navigated from island (group) to island (group):

i see where you're coming from about the probability and realisticness of this. so maybe to make it more fair, it could be an 80-90 percent chance of sinking.

I would just say caravals should be able to hold any one. like a carrack.

This was a feature in civ 2 or 3, don't remember which. Now that I think about it I don't really see a reason to bring it back or not to bring it back.

well, carvels are meant for exploring. but i see what you're saying. maybe carvels could carry any unit that does not have the power for attack. i think the reason why they made it the way they did is so that you can't launch attacks until galleons. they should be able to also carry workers and settler

There are been found rests of a phoenician galley on the coast of brasil and ruins of a malinese village in the caribbean, a phoenician galley went all round Africa from Marrocco to Egypt, the viking village in Terranova, chinese ruins in the west coast of the USA, the polinesians, even without their instruments, only with their knowledge(as JELEEN has explained) they crossed from island to island nearly all the pacific, the chinese fleet on mid XIV century… and other things we don't know…

There was a recent thread on this:

Galleys in oceans, Thoughtful Thug, 22/9/09

I'm a fan of allowing a chance to cross oceans, although you'd want it to be a very low chance of success.

yeah, same here. they could enter ocean tiles, and at the end of the turn, there should be an 80-90 percent chance of the galley sinking. to account for some other ighly unlikely events. with this high chance of sinking, it could account for the vikings (excuse my historical incorrectness) crossing near Greenland and putting settlements in Canada. if only they had the common sense to said further south rofl instead of settling up there.

maybe an 80 percent chance is fair. if you wanted to spend 2 turns crossing ocean, you would need an average of 25 galleys. and if you wanted to put down a settler, you would need to fill each gally with a settler and a mace/longbow/axe. that takes a lot of hammers to make all that, not to mention upkeep. i think 80 percent chance of failure is reasonable.

eduhum said:

There are been found rests of a phoenician galley on the coast of brasil and ruins of a malinese village in the caribbean, a phoenician galley went all round Africa from Marrocco to Egypt, the viking village in Terranova, chinese ruins in the west coast of the USA, the polinesians, even without their instruments, only with their knowledge(as JELEEN has explained) they crossed from island to island nearly all the pacific, the chinese fleet on mid XIV century… and other things we don't know…

Click to expand...

Errr...

- no Phoenician galley was found in Brasil (they didn't use galleys, by the way)
- no Malinese crossed the Atlantic
- the Carthaginians navigated up til Guinea, not beyond (they also rounded the British isles)
- no Chinese remains were found in the Americas (curiously, they never tried to find the 'Isles of Happiness' they thought were in the East).

I'm sure there are very many things we don't know, but these ones we do.

So, basically, you're proposing a return to civ III, in which you can enter any tile, but there's a chance ofsinking when out of sight of land.

yes, and by the way, i figured out a way to get from america to europe using gallies, but not the other way around. it only works one way, and involves getting a city on the bottom right tip of greenland with 5 culture. from there, you can go to iceland and settle there. then all it takes to get to scandanavia is open borders, or GREAT ARTIST WORK IN ICELAND. then you may even have a tile on the british isles lol. only problem is upkeep..... im still working the kinks out of that. you will save 5 or 6 with courthouses.