BOTM 31 Final Spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 31 Final Spoiler



So how did your game after 500 AD go? Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

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I've totally forgotten the details of my game :( I did go culture but posted a horrible date of 1695 AD. I popped too many great prophets (too much GP pollution from going wonder happy). I also had a spare great artist left at the end of the game as I totally miscalculated when city #2 and #3 would go legendary. I ended up using all of the late religions, including Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity, and even Islam. I had easy access to marble + copper and later stone so the multipliers were easy to build. Still, my game left a lot to be desired...
 
As I posted in the first spoiler, I did not play a very focused game. I did not decide on a victory condition until very late, as I was too busy having fun just growing my empire to ridiculous size as a pure builder exercise. :D

I eventually decided on an AP victory, and finally got around to researching Optics and sending out some caravels. Found all the AIs within 10 turns of doing so -- they really were amazingly close by. I had spread my state religion of Judaism to all my (many, large) cities so I had little worry about votes. The biggest issues would be getting all the AIs infected with my religion, and then getting one other civ to vote for me.

The answer to the second issue appeared when Catherine, still penned up on her starting island, showed up one day and asked to become my vassal. :) Our relations had been poor due to my declaring on her twice and razing her attempts to settle on the mainland. But I was happy to offer my protection to the Russian people in return for their loyalty.

But this raised a new problem: Catherine had long since adopted Judaism, and would be my rival for AP victory. I needed her vote since I was not permitted to vote myself to victory, even though I more than had the raw numbers to do so. I would need to pick one other AI and send enough missionaries to convert enough of that AI's cities to make them my rival. I picked Joao for this, as he was the most easily accessible of the AIs.

France, England, and the Netherlands were easily infected with my state religion, one small city each being converted by missionary. Portugal received a steady stream of missionaries, converting city after city. Soon he would be ready to serve as my puppet opponent. :)

But Isabella of Spain was a problem. She had not yet researched Theology, but she refused to open borders even after several sizable technology gifts. However, she had not entirely settled her continent as she had been busy warring with France. So I founded a new city on her border, converted it to Judaism, and gifted it to her. Every AI now had at least one city with my state religion -- time for a vote.

Joao converted to Judaism, conveniently doubling his votes and making him my rival. A couple turns later the vote was held, and I achieved AP victory in 1530 AD.

Just the turn before I had finally completed my master dotmap for the starting continent and associated islands (other than Catherine's), founding my 28th city. I discovered Combustion the same turn, with assembly plants finishing all across my empire. My final wonder count was 17 world wonders (Statue of Liberty the last finished), and 3 (+1) national wonders (Oxford, Wall Street, National Epic, and the palace). I did not get stone until rather late, so I lost a lot of the stone wonders to various AIs. Got most of everything else, though. :)

I am sure AP victory could have been achieved centuries earlier. I had delayed getting Compass for a long time, as I was just having too much fun growing and improving all my cities. It is not often that you get a chance to play builder like this game. :lol: I fully expect to be beaten by a huge margin for fastest AP victory. But this game was tremendous fun to play, and I thank the sponsor for the scenario. Very enjoyable.
 
First time played noble and tried culture victory, made a lot of mistakes and learned quite a lot. Tried to abuse Sushi, liberalism took Medicine and then researched Communism for Kremlin. No luck for GA, so only produced 4 GAs for culture bomb. However GAs did not matter too much since every culture city could produce over 1.5K each turn. If optimally played and with luck on GA, could pull a win ~1400AD and that's it. I am interested to see how fast the old way of stopping research at PP and Nat could achieve. Experts advices are welcome.:)

3 legendary cities.
Spoiler :






 
I've totally forgotten the details of my game :( I did go culture but posted a horrible date of 1695 AD. I popped too many great prophets (too much GP pollution from going wonder happy). I also had a spare great artist left at the end of the game as I totally miscalculated when city #2 and #3 would go legendary. I ended up using all of the late religions, including Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity, and even Islam. I had easy access to marble + copper and later stone so the multipliers were easy to build. Still, my game left a lot to be desired...

:lol: My date was 1740 - so you are buying beers so far!

I had a similar problem - went wonder crazy and had way too many other GPs (two prophets, a merchant(!?!) and 3 scientists from the GL). Still this would only have brought me in 10 or 20 turns. I must still be doing something wrong! The date should have been much faster. My last GOTM culture victory on Emporer was 1800 for pete's sake!

I played the "old" way of stopping at Liberalism / Nationalism. I think next BOTM I will try the Sushi way. With Parthenon, Nat Epic and pacifism I still had 11 GAs including the one from Music (I settled one early in my 2nd cottage city).

After a lot of thinking, I settled in place - which wasn't too bad. Made a stupid MM mistake early when I forgot Bismark starts with mining !!!! wasted several turns getting my 1st settler out.

Catherine never got off her island in my game. I didn't do anything fancy to contain her either. I don't think she had alphabet until 1500 or so (and neither did I until Willem showed up!)
 
mushroomshirt,

In my game (and possibly in yours) the tech pace was rather slow, despite the game being at Noble. There was only one AI to trade with pre-caravels, and as you described Catherine was so backwards that you could not get many (any, in my case) tech trades. It was almost like no-tech-trading was on for a significant portion of the game, and that really cuts down the tech pace.

Lack of foreign trade routes also hurt, although settling the other islands gave some help with off-shore routes. And in my case, my continuing (over) expansion kept my science slider down for a long time as the new cities developed.

I eventually had a massive religious economy going: 20+ cities with both temple and monastery, each building getting +2 hammers (AP), +2 beakers (Sankore), +2 gold (Spiral Minaret), and +5 culture (Sistine). And I did eventually (about 1000 AD) get a prophet for my shrine for another +25 gpt or so (larger by the end, of course).

While I waited for the final vote, I was finishing Industrial Era techs like Combustion in 2 turns. :) I avoided SciMeth -- losing all the bonus goodies for the monasteries would have hurt.
 
I finished both my games. The CE conquered in 1650ADish and the SE in 1550ADish, but with comparable scores. The former did a lot more tech and spammed some more cities, too. However both would have been a lot faster if I'd planned better to split my military campaign. I had the resources to run two seperate conquest armies.

In the first game, De Gaulle had build the Pyramids, unsuprisingly, so I wiped Cathy and then captured and held some of his eastern empire to get Pyramids for Police State. He vassalized. Izzy build the AP, so I dowed her next. Luckily De Gaulle had enough Buddhist votes that I didn't have to defy her anti-war AP resolution. She vassalized before I took her capital. The other three went down easily enough.

In the second SE game I'd started the building of a bunch of workshops when I got a fairly late Metal Casting, but they were not much use until the Caste System and Guilds +1:hammers: both came in. Obviously I beelined Chemistry for more :hammers: and frigates too. Tech might have been a bit faster if I'd prioritised getting cottages in the capital, but the Pottery+BW combo was acquired quite late... perhaps Bureaucracy was a mistake, but the :hammers: benefit was put to good use. Also killed Cathy, then vassalized DeG, Izzy, Lizzie, Willem and Joao, in that order.

Amusingly, the people off my continent were all European powers who'd been significantly colonial in real life, whereas Germany and Russia weren't so much. So I did rewrite history in a way... I colonized the world by force :).
 
Aimed for a fast conquest, ended 1250AD.

Settled in place, second city north near the silver, third east at the coast for Great Lighthouse. Went totally wonder crazy in the capital :) - so I run some kind of WE (wonder econonmy). Never settled that much Great People.

Inital techs: Agri, BW, Myst, Fishing, TW, Masonary, Pottery (-> Oracle MC), Sailing.

After Optics I went with two caravels east and west to find the other AIs. Met Izzy and the French guy but where are the others? Hiding south?

Next stop Astro.

The wars:
Attacked Cathy with Maces and Cats (transported via Galleys). Then de Gaulle, then Izzy. In parallel I shipped some Maces and Knights to Joao. After Joao I captured the two cities of William and finally the forces from Izzy joined to take the remaining Liz out.
I only faced Longbows when fighting the southern civs (Liz, William and Joao).

Really a fun game and I never build that much wonders.

Some pics:

Spoiler :


capital.JPG

wonders.JPG

 
Took the Contender start (as I always do), goal was a culture win as early as possible.

Spent some time beforehand reading jesusin's thread re culture games - thanks for the excellent info jesusin, and for the link mushroomshirt.

Despite that, from reading the posts so far it looks like I've probably lost the culture challenge from the pregame discussion :cry:. I thought I'd done quite well through most of the game, made a few mistakes, but generally having a smooth ride. Should have won soon after 1700AD, but botched my handling of last great artist, delaying win for a while.

Also wasted 3 turns at the start looking around for a better starting position.

I kept detailed notes as I played, hoping to compare step by step with someone more expert playing a culture game to see what else I can learn. I've attached my notes below, and would welcome similarly detailed notes from others, or suggestions on what slowed me down.

Spoiler :

  • Turn 1 - scout goes SE to marble hills, sees pigs. Not content with food supplies, settler NW, N to have a look from that hill. Damn, looks worse, and looks like we're in the northern reaches (want capital further south then). But can see coast to east, maybe there'll be seafood?
  • Turn 2 - scout goes NE to try to get a look at coast but can't see much, settler NE, SE to the corn to look around. Damn, not much to see and no food resources.
  • Turn 3 - scout goes SE, SW to check the view from the hill by the pigs - that doesn't look compelling either. Settler returns to starting position intending to settle for settling there after all
  • Turn 4 - scout goes NE, N, and at last we start to see a better food possibility - more pigs! Settler goes E, E and will settle there to get the pigs, corn and marble. Unclear whether the extra food makes up for the loss of plains hill extra starting hammer and reduction by 4 in number of grasslands to cottage. Wish I'd settled in place.
  • Build worker, warrior, warrior (1 turn), settler, warrior(finish), warrior, settler
  • Research animal husbandry, agriculture, bronze working (for chopping), masonry (to work the marble), wheel, pottery (to get cottages started), writing (need libraries for some culture in our cities), alphabet, fishing???. Then better consider archery or horseback riding for defense.
  • 3120BC scout has gone east, south, west and is finally seeing the wonderful river plains - anyone scouting west at start may have found a better capital location than me. Damn.
  • 2960BC Berlin grows to size 3 and starts working on a settler. Working pigs, corn (will be improved next turn, and a hill). Why haven't we met any scouts from other civs yet??
  • Plans for our 3 main culture cities - capital, a city to the west on the flood plains (2N of the pigs, double as a wicked GP farm and will get many cottages), and 3S of the marble (to get pigs, horses and many cottages, as per Jesusin's strategy thread about cottages being best source of culture later on)
  • 2400BC after a game of "bear and warrior" which we won, Hamburg is settled west of capital on the floodplains 2N of the pigs. Will build worker > granary. Scout has explored NW barrens and now heads SW.
  • 2000BC Munich is founded south of capital (3S of the marble). Next to a lion. Hope they run away from newly founded cities defended only by a warrior, rather than attacking... (phew, they do). It will build a warrior to defend itself better when barbs start appearing.
  • 1560BC finally met Catherine - for a while there I thought we might be alone on a huge continent (reminiscent of BOTM28)
  • 1360BC we see our first barb warrior, and we found Cologne way up north for fish, crabs, silver and deer (later realised I'm founded this way too soon, before I had mysticism or fishing to allow culture expansion and access to the resources - should have first founded one less far up north for the other silver and deer.
  • At 1000BC we have 4 cities, 5 cottages and 3 more coming, 6 workers, 11 warriors, our faithful scout (still exploring - has explored all the SW jungles, then NE dodging barbs and viewed Russian territory across the sea, and is now heading SW to try and go round the corner and N to see whether the Russians are on the same continent as us, and whether there's anyone else around). We're ahead of the Russ on score. Normally would have built more cities and less workers, but following advice in Jesusin's culture thread, delayed building more cities. We don't have any religions yet.
  • 675BC Got Alphabet, traded writing to Russians (only tech we've met) for fishing (they wouldn't trade the other 2 techs they had yet). Gifted Marble and Pigs to Russians to improve relationships.
  • 575BC Frankfurt founder NW of capital between sheep and deer
  • 475BC Catherine demands the secrets of Iron - we generously agree and she becomes pleased with us (but still won't trade her techs)
  • 300BC we found Essen on the coast south of the Russians, 1S of the sheep. Unfortunately 1 of the 2 warrior escorts is killed by a barb warrior, and a 2nd barb warrior turns up 2 turns away from the founding spot
  • 250BC Phew, the defender killed the 2 attacking warriors. We researched Monarchy which will give more happiness in our cities allowing them to get bigger. Now going for COL to get a first religion
  • 175BC The Russians have founded a city far to the SW in my next target spot, oh well
  • Re-reading Jesusin's culture thread, I realise I probably should have had a couple of science specialists running for a while in 1 city and generated a GS to create the academy by now. Damn - better get started on that.
  • 200BC The Russians beat us to COL by 5 turns, so we're way behind on religions for our culture goal. Fortunately it spreads to Essen next turn, so we're finally underway with getting religion
  • 50BC We found Dortmund SE of capital to get iron and clams
  • 225AD We see our first barb axeman
  • 300AD Got first great person - scientist - used to start a golden age and have 2 cities using 2 science specialists during it to rush towards 2 more great people. Still haven't met anyone other than Catherine. Got Essen producing missionaries now to spread Confucianism
  • 350AD We discover philosophy first and establish Taoism in Hamburg - a welcome 2nd religion. Next researching Aesthetics and Literature for some wonders
  • 375AD we found Stuttgart on the far SW coast to get dye and sugar
  • Foolishly waited till after golden age to change civics and religion, forgetting it can be done during GA without anarchy
  • 780AD We found Dusseldorf in the far south to get wheat and sugar - our 9th and last city, and we discover Theology first to get Chirstianity
  • 840AD Catherine finally decides to trade techs and gives sailing and archery for philosophy
  • 860AD Catherine devolves her cities on our continent to a vassal (Mehmed)
  • About now our GP Farm (Hamburg) is size 13 and allocates 5 artist specialists while staying stable on food (I've never before recruited so many specialists - I'd usually have wanted to keep working more cottages, but am trying to follow the ideas in Jesusin's thread). [Later when plantations kick in to raise my happiness threshhold I work more tiles to grow larger for a while. ]I realise however that my 9 city strategy is suboptimal - the GPFarm will be generating minimal hammers and so won't be able to build cathedrals, so 6 cities would have been sufficient. Living and learning... I'm now thinking maybe a GPFarm should not usually be one of the 3 culture cities???
  • 1000AD We discover Music and get a free great artist (who will culture bomb Munich). We start on Civil Service, then Paper, Education and Liberalism
  • 1050AD Someone beat us to the Statue of Zeus by 5 turns, minor blow. Michelangelo born, in Hamburg - he culture bombs Hamburg to push back the borders of Rostov, which had pinched 2 floodplained villages from us.
  • 1080AD we trade Philosophy to Catherine for Calendar, discover Civil Service and change to Bureaucracy
  • 1130AD We discover Paper, and at last the neighbours are turning up - the Portugese have found us, and we do a generous trade of Paper for Drama (not willing to trade away Music till finished Sistine Chapel, and they won't trade their Metal Casting or Feudalism for anything less. They've coming 2nd in score, well behind us.
  • 1170AD Third great artist, born in Hamburg
  • 1310AD We discover Liberalism. Hmmm, way slower than Jesusin's benchmark of 1000AD in his thread, maybe a bit slowed by lack of trading partners and a bit by insufficient skill. We get Nationalism as free tech, trade Liberalism to Portuguese for Machinery, change to Free Speech, start building Hermitage and Taj Mahal, and turn off research. Our GPFarm is working 6 artists. We recently popped a great scientist in Berlin and are about to pop a prophet in an auxilliary city - will use them for a golden age. Damn - once again I changed civics with anarchy when if I'd waited till I started the golden age I could have changed without it.
  • We're able to run 60% culture, which is giving us culture/turn of 222, 195 and 141 in our 3 culture cities, which are on 1795, 5211 and 9041 culture points. Could run some science and get Divine Right to found another religion, but think its more efficient to go all out on culture now. Also got 5 auxilliary cities running 4 or 5 artists to try to generate more GAs later in game. Started destroying surplus workers and warriors to reduce unit costs.
  • 1410AD Our second golden age ends, and 2 turns later we build the Taj for a third!
  • 1460AD Catherine beats my (minimal) research effort to be first to Divine Right and Islam
  • 1490AD The English make contact - they're far behind on score, but the Portuguese are closing on our score
  • 1555AD The people of Rostov (small city on our west coast) are drawn to our highly cultured German empire and revolt against their former masters. To reward them we disband their city and ask them to drive around in colourful wagons selling arts and crafts.
  • 1585AD Same happens with Yakutsk (small Russian city on our south coast) - more gypsies
  • Sailing a caravel south we've met the Dutch
  • 1640AD We discover Printing Press, and with all our auxiliary cities producing wealth we're now able to run 90% culture
  • 1650AD A great scientist emerges in our capital. Fat lot of use he is for our cultural goal. He establishes an Academy in Munich to help out with a 8 culture/turn... not so bad after all
  • 1695AD 4 of our auxiliary cities (which have been running as many artists as they can without starving) now start using all their population as artists (these cities will be beautiful but empty by end of game!). We're running 100% culture, with gold trading financing our costs.
  • 1816AD We pop great person number 17 (artist number 13), but due to some poor attention to detail (used 1 too many great artists on one city) victory will be delayed nearly 18 turns...


1848AD Cultural victory, later than necessary, lots learned, well enjoyed.
 
1903 Space victory. Filled my continent and the islands to the east. I took Russia's land. It was a building paradise. I didn't build any early wonders except the Oracle. Even without the Great Wall, barbs were never a problem. I did get 3 Golden Ages (doubled) and could have gotten a 4th if I'm managed specialists better, but I didn't make the effort.

The next 2 xOTMs are certainly interesting. But, it was just fun to build, build build and make a paradise.
 
Despite that, from reading the posts so far it looks like I've probably lost the culture challenge from the pregame discussion :cry:. I thought I'd done quite well through most of the game, made a few mistakes, but generally having a smooth ride. Should have won soon after 1700AD, but botched my handling of last great artist, delaying win for a while.

I think Duckweed is buying beers right now :king:
 
All I can say is I think I hit another personal record for me running 5 golden ages (including the Taj). I did try a builder game with the aim of setting off for the stars hoping for a pre 1800AD game again. Failed dismally with an arrival at AC in 1840.
 
Having forgotten to switch to Monarchy for almost 1000 years after I researched it and then building only 11 cities for 4 religions, I needed 257 turns to get a cultural victory.
 
Challenger save, 1725AD cultural victory, the 'normal way'. Played quickly as I don't have a lot of time for Civ now. I had a lot of spare research capacity and it would be interesting to try the Sushi way some time, especially with so much land and seafood.

I built lots of Wonders too:

1020AD Mausoleum
980AD AP
820AD Sistine
450AD Great Lib
150AD Parthenon
475BC Pyramids
525BC Kong Miao
1600BC Oracle

Cathy voluntarily vassalized to me around 600AD or so, well before I met anyone else. I let her get a foothold on the continent which was no big deal except that I had trouble grabbing the copper resource. She was useful for one or two trades since, as my vassal, she could be directed to tech things that were off my beeline.

I had a few slavery revolt events, but also a nice event related to my Taoist cathedral, which produced a free Great Artist!
 
Free Great Artist when pursuing cultural victory -- very nice, beestar! :)

Events were a very minor issue during my game. A couple extremely minor good ones -- the "breakthrough" event early on gave me like 30 beakers (about 1 turn of research at the time), and I got prairie dogs for +1C on a tile which was not actually in the BFC of any of my cities. :lol: The only negative event happened late (1400 AD or so) when a theater burned down -- cost all of about 50 gold to prevent losing the building, which was nothing at that stage of the game.

I generally play with events off, so I was glad to not have any significant events, good or bad, in my game.
 
Some details have escaped me about my game, as I finished it a couple of days after release =p.
But, I DO know that I inadvertently DL'ed the 'adventurer' save instead of the 'challenger' one- I wish you guys had more obvious names for the difficulty classes for numbskulls like me!

I guided Bismarck and the Germans to AC in 1834AD. The only war was with Catherine in the middle ages- she largely stuck to her island excepting an outpost on the west coast horses, until I over-ran her with maces. The war took way too long- I didn't capture Moscow until 800s AD if I recall- should have gone in sooner. There was so much territory to expand into though (although that could have been accomplished more quickly as well...)

Early game- I settled in place, and went for CS sling via Oracle and GS-bulb of maths from early library. I also landed Pyramids via heavy chopping around Berlin and revolted to Bureaucracy, caste system (a mistake in hindsight because it took so long to get buildings, settlers, units for REXing in), and Representation. Went pretty early for Optics and Astro to get a couple of tech trades in with AI, but mostly trade routes and GPT deals on excess resources.

Got sushi and mining inc founded in Confucian shrine city with Wall Street to keep the sci slider high. About half of my cities were production and 4 or 5 super science cities with academies, unis, etc (used production to build wealth/run sci specialists).

Among the AI, Jao was the biggest and smartest civ most of the game, but Isabella caught up towards the end when she filled into all of her land.

Interestingly, in Vivafox's practice game I made AC in 1836, so it was a good warm-up I guess =p.
 
I didn't optimize for fast finish this time, so instead I tried to see how high I could get my base score (without delaying the spaceship to do so because Modern Armor vs longbows is booooring).

I filled my continent, founded all the corps except Cereal Mills (used my GM for a golden age instead, thinking I'd get another, but just kept getting engineers). I got almost all of the wonders, except 3 or 4 of the early ones that weren't worth the bother of capturing.

Sushi was spread to every city and Mining was spread to all of my continent and the former Russian continent. Could build ICBM in a single turn, but largest city only got to be size 27.

I focused mostly just on building all the wonders and getting space techs, not so much on the military side until I could do so without slowing those priorities. Basically, when I got Panzers, you could say.

I took all the Dutch cities, then took all the French cities. By then it was launch time, so I was only able to take about 5 Spanish cities before the spaceship landed in 1914. Spain had just started getting infantry, bombers, and paratroopers... but most of her units were gunpowder or earlier.

By playing on Prince level, I think I got a bit more tech help from a Friendly cathy in the early game (see 1st spoiler), compared to you contenders. But when she stopped being useful I just took her two cities (pre-500ad).

What I learned: you can really produce LOTS of Great People when you have a well-supplied Sushi machine. I've never had so many late game specialists before. I just let the city governors decide all that stuff, so there was tons of unused espionage points, I'm sure. I just hate that micro stuff once the empire gets so big.

I surely could have delayed launch and milked my score quite a bit more, but honeslty I was only 20 turns from going legend in 3 cities, so I would have planned differently (like not building Hollywood in my 3rd highest culture city) if I were seriously milking. I launched at first opportunity... if I didn't detour for Space Elevator and make units for a land-grab, I could probably have landed just before 1900AD.

Anyhow, my final score (the one with finish date bonus >63000 before being adjusted to Noble level score of 53000) was still increasing when I finished, because I didn't have the patience to optimize my base score. Base score ended at >7300, which is pretty high base score for me... perhaps my highest outside Time victories.

I must be a builder at heart, because I enjoy games like this that reward good city planning.

Thanks for a fun one!
 
My first conquest victory in CIV ever (I usually end with domination taking too much land).
After series of 2-3 turns war, taking 2 cities from AI, capping AI, I finished a lot later then some of you...around 1868. Sigh...should play better.

Nice map though, next run i would have do a lot of things other way, but well such is life. So much to learn...
 
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