Let The Sun Never Set - Farewell SG for RFC

blizzrd

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An era has closed for Rhye's and Fall of Civilization (RFC). With the recent release of the final patch Rhye has also announced his retirement from CivIV modding. So to finish up with an appropriate ending, the time has come for one final RFC Succession Game, with a twist - this one will include Rhye himself!

Roster (as previously determined in this thread):
1. Blizzrd
2. Jusos2108
3. Nody
4. Rhye

600AD unlocked start, Monarch difficulty, with most recent patch of Rhye's and Fall of Civilization BTS v1.187.

SG Rules

  1. Must avoid winning by UHV and can only win by Domination victory. 2/3 UHV encouraged.
  2. Must try to establish the English Empire at its greatest extents but at all times our cities must be on tiles that are within our maximum historical limits (see map below).
  3. Conquering historically conquered lands is preferred to simply settling them before any AI civs.
  4. Cannot launch punitive attacks on AI civs (including Natives) in areas that are outside of our historical lands. Foreign-controlled cities on tiles outside of our historical lands but with cultural spread that is claiming some of our historical lands are however acceptable targets for razing.
  5. Must build the Channel Tunnel and Wembley World Wonders.
  6. Must finish constructing Olympic Park in an Olympic year.
  7. 10 turns per player, unless by prior arrangement.
  8. Reloading turns on consensus only (majority vote required).
Any area coloured on the map below is fair game for city locations, but greyed out regions are not allowed for city locations. English control of some areas changed with time (USA for instance) but England clearly never controlled Denver so we can't have a city there.

We obviously have to try to get our culture into (at least) all of the areas coloured on the map, but areas such as Antarctica will have to be occupied by units as opposed to city culture. Cultural spread is going to be vital in order to get a Domination Victory.
Spoiler :
The_British_Empire.png

Current British overseas territories are underlined in red.
Let the sun never set upon the English Empire!
 
Why are some of the place-name on the map under-lined?
 
Why are some of the place-name on the map under-lined?

Those that are underlined are currently held by UK.

BTW, what are you going to do with Bermuda (a coastal tile with no nearby lands) and Cyprus (an island-peak)?
 
I would only send workers to build a fort in the Antarctic...no troops there.:)
 
So some questions about strategy:

-1st GP a great spy?
-Early conquest (mainly Egypt) or building up?
-Cities on the British Islands: London (since we are historical?), Newcastle, Dublin with all the fishes and what about Plymouth?
-Are we aiming for University of Sankore? Spiral Minaret is probably pre-built in Egypt.
 
How about trying to found and conquer colonies around the right historical time? (i.e. NAm in 16th century, Caribbean in 17th, no Egypt or India till the 19th century) The Caribbeans might be a problem but you can make exceptions (i.e. if Spain was trying to found them you can do it first).
 
OK, so from humble beginnings our noble band of adventurers must set out to dominate the world! The world is our oyster, let the good times roll.

Here's our starting position, for those unfamiliar with the RFC mod:
Spoiler :
attachment.php
Turn 0: We make contact with France on their turn before our actual game start. Gifting them 10g they become pleased and I sign an Open Borders agreement so that our galleys will be able to traverse the English Channel without declaring war on France. French culture dominates the seas to our south, for the moment anyway.

Turn 1: After many games with England, I very much prefer Southampton (on the Cows to the SW of the starting tile) over London because it allows for Newcastle instead of a city in Cornwall and also will eventually control the Dye across the Channel if enough wonders are built in Southampton. So I move one settler one tile SW and found Southampton as our capital. Switch civics to Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, Slavery and Organised Religion (2 turns of anarchy) and direct research towards Compass. (Due to the extended anarchy in the first few turns, I will play a couple of extra turns on this set as a one-off exception to the 10-turns rule.) One settler heads for the Newcastle tile (N of the Deer) and our remaining two settlers are loaded onto one of our Galleys. All four Longbows are loaded into the remaining two Galleys and set sail to the SW, intended destination Alexandria where rumour has it the Great Lighthouse and Great Library can be found. Anarchy, no production this turn.

Turn 2: Notre Dame is built in a foreign land. Checking the F9 screen reveals that Notre Dame and the Hagia Sophia are now in the same city, which must be Constantinople. Anarchy, not much else to report, other than the French have founded Rennes which shaves a little off the distance required to sail the SW.

Turn 3: Inverness flips to us with one Archer and Christianity. I adopt Christianity as our State Religion (more anarchy). Our Galley with 2 settlers onboard arrives off the coast of Ireland and one settler disembarks onto the goody hut. We get 48g. Meet Spain with our 2x Galleys full of Longbows who after we gift 10g becomes Pleased and we get Open Borders.
Spoiler :
attachment.php
Turn 4: Meet Vikings with one of our work boats which is sailing N through the North Sea towards Inverness. Vikings are Cautious but I gift them Monotheism and they become Pleased and Open Borders. Found Dublin and start work on a monument.

Turn 5: Ask for, and receive, 1gpt from Spain who still likes us quite a bit apparently. Use the whip to finish a work boat in Inverness and a monument in Dublin (next turn). We attack and destroy a Barbarian Trireme off the coast of Spain with one of our Longbow-filled Galleys.

Turn 6: On defense just before our turn, our Galley kills another Barbarian Trireme and I choose Flanking I and Navigation I as promotions for this unit. Should help with colonising efforts later in the game. 2x work boats turn into fishing nets outside of Inverness. Trade Horseback Riding to Vikings to get them to switch civics to Slavery and Organised Religion, and also to given them a little instability. They don't actually have a state religion currently of course. Trade one of our new (surplus) fish resources to France for 1gpt.

Turn 7: Masjid al-Haram built in in a foreign land, assume Mecca. Otherwise an uneventful turn.

Turn 8: Borders of Southampton finally expand and our initial work boat which has been waiting on the Crab for some time finally turns into fishing nets. Our Galleys and Longbows towards Tripolis and rip up some Byzantine fishing nets for 3g along the way.

Turn 9: On defense again, we destroy yet another Barbarian Trireme, this time with our Galley that has a Settler onboard. This settler is headed for South Africa, probably to settle Durban on the Gold. I usually find that the early Gold is important for the extra happiness that it brings in to the empire. We meet Germany who after a gift of 10g become pleased and Open Borders. Whip production on the remainder of a Library in Southampton.

Turn 10: Library comes online in Southampton, otherwise an uneventful turn. Our 4x Longbows are unloaded outside of Alexandria, on the Dye. Arabia has unfortunately already conquered the city from the Byzantines, not such a good result for us. The city is defended by a Camel Archer with Strength II and a basic Spearman.

Turn 11: Meet Netherlands and Open Borders. Lose contact with Vikings. Our four Longbows didn't sail all this way to look at the pretty Dye resource that they are currently camped on, so we attack into Alexandria. First Longbow dies, only slightly damaging the Camel Archer. Second Longbow also dies, severely damaging the Camel Archer though in the process. Third Longbow kills the Camel Archer at 80% odds. Fourth Longbow kills the Spearman at 74% odds. We're in!
Spoiler :
attachment.php
Turn 12: 2x Galleys begin to sail back towards England and our other Galley rounds the West African coast. Our Navigation I Galley luckily kills a Byzantine Trireme on defense, and promotes to Navigation II. Whip a Granary in Inverness and a work boat in Dublin, to be completed next turn.

Turn 13: Work boat from Dublin sets up fishing nets to the SE, although Newcastle actually is utilising this tile. Whip a Warrior in Alexandria, which has come out of revolt but is about to starve down from 2 pop to 1 pop otherwise. The extra Warrior will hopefully help to prevent city revolts from Arabian cultural influence which is coming pretty strongly out of nearby Cairo. Upgrade our fish deal with France from 1gpt to 2gpt. Start trading Fish to Spain for 1gpt also.

Compass will come in on our next turn.

Spoiler :
attachment.php
Suggested to do list:

1. Pick a location to settle our remaining Settler. Suggest Durban on the Gold, but depends on Natives and how active they appear to be.
2. Continue to develop our homeland tiles. I have built two additional workers to date and five should be enough, but we will need to ferry into Ireland to improve tiles there also.

Jusos2108, you're up next I believe.
 
BTW, what are you going to do with Bermuda (a coastal tile with no nearby lands) and Cyprus (an island-peak)?

Not much with either. The RFCC modmod of RFC allows for Cyprus, but unfortunately the RFC mod itself doesn't. I did say try to establish the English Empire, as far as the limitations of the RFC map allow in any case.

So some questions about strategy:

-1st GP a great spy?
-Early conquest (mainly Egypt) or building up?
-Cities on the British Islands: London (since we are historical?), Newcastle, Dublin with all the fishes and what about Plymouth?
-Are we aiming for University of Sankore? Spiral Minaret is probably pre-built in Egypt.

Great Spy is very useful but we would have to be lucky. We've already had a Great Scientist for a couple of turns in our capital now that our Library is up. If you want to turn off the Scientist that is OK with me, but I wouldn't recommend this idea.

Sorry about no London, but Southampton is a superior location. Plymouth is a sucky city.

How about trying to found and conquer colonies around the right historical time? (i.e. NAm in 16th century, Caribbean in 17th, no Egypt or India till the 19th century) The Caribbeans might be a problem but you can make exceptions (i.e. if Spain was trying to found them you can do it first).

In a perfect world, sure. I don't expect that the AI will push us so hard that we can't afford a few little liberties like trying for this sort of flavour objective. But I think we should play to make the stated objectives our clear priorities and flavour to suit (if possible).
 
Looking good!:goodjob: Southampton is much better capital than London, I always found it too, and saves us the trouble called Plymouth. Also taking Alexandria was quite nice, although I believe I need more troops to take Cairo, so I might have to whip couple catapults.

I'll aim for Durban, since it is just an awesome city place.

EDIT: I'll keep the scientist as Alexandria has two of them + more fancy stuff. I'll probably dedicate Newcastle to have 1spy all the time, so it might eventually spawn a Great Spy.
 
Turn 0 We start building two catapults; in London and Inverness. Taking Cairo and later Jerusalem is a priority as otherwise Alexandria will flip back to Arabs.

Turn 1 Compass is in, next Paper. I usually steal engineering and guilds, but that is not possible at the moment, I recommend that we try to trade for those. Dublin whips a work boat. Newcastle starts to build a longbowman.

Turn 2 Christianity spreads to Dublin! Hopefully it spread soon to the other cities as well. Nothing else happens.

Turn 3 Alexandrian Longbowman kills a Arabian Camel Archers while defending. Dublin whips another work boat and Inverness whips the rest of the catapult. Newcastle finishes a longbowman.

Turn 4 Galleys come back from the Mediterranean Sea. I load a worker and catapult into it. 2nd one goes to London, which finishes catapult in the next turn.

Turn 5 We ask for 40g from Germany and get it. Galley dumps the worker to Ireland and sails south. Longbowman loads into one of the Galleys and the catapult from London into another.

Turn 6 We set sail back towards Egypt. Meanwhile development in England continues: libraries and harbors finished in almost every city, next up forges and markets.

Turn 7 The African galley arrives at the gold spot and unloads the settler there, no natives in sight. I only spotted one around Cape Town.

Turn 8 NICE!:D We get the Classic Literature Quest and so it happens that we do control the Great Library. We must finish it before Renaissance! A Great scientist is born in Alexandria, I use to build an Academy for culture and science (the Great Library isn't obsolete until Scientific Method; fell free to disagree.:) But then again University of Sankore is built in Constantinople. :( How come the Byzantines are all of a sudden pumping out wonders? I thought that shouldn't happen anymore.:confused: We found Durban on the gold, it starts to build axeman and another axeman goes in line.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001-3.jpg


Turn 9 Axeman is whip-able in Durban. Use that if the natives are coming.

Turn 10 Galleys push deep into the Mediterranean Sea, watch out for Byzantine triremes.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002-2.jpg



Notes:

-The african galley meets the Malinese on its way back, so trade for Divine Right. We should build the Forbidden Palace in Durban, after it has built library, work boat and a couple workers (more axemen if needed).
-Building up England is important
-We should carefully take Cairo with two Longbowmen and two catapults, maybe approach with one Longbowman first to see what we are up against


Some ground rule suggestions:

-Tech paths discussed directionally
-City founding discussed beforehand
-City conquest and wars generally discussed beforehand
-Discuss civic changes
 

Attachments

It's interesting you guys went for libraries first before forges. I usually whip AP buildings and forges out then libraries because you get the extra hammers, and also forges need 3 pop to whip while libraries need 2, so if you whip the latter, you reach your unhappy limit quicker (English cities grow like rabbits), and having a Christian church helps with mass control. Very lucky that you have Christianity in Inverness because that's usually the 1st city that becomes unhappy.
 
Looking good. With University of Sankore already gone to us it we should probably not focus on trying for Spinal Minaret to the detriment of other options. Getting Sistine Chapel will be much more important in the long run, we will need it for the cultural bonus if we are to get Domination Victory.

We should be able to trade for Meditation but we don't have contact with a couple of the Euro civs (Vikings, Germany, Russia) at the moment. Netherlands will trade Engineering currently, but it is too expensive for us just now.
 
I think we will want Philosophy and Pacifism sooner rather than later. But Meditation is a prerequisite and we may not need to do the research ourselves if we can trade for this tech.

Shame that Paper didn't benefit us directly because Sankore is gone before we learnt Paper.

If we choose a tech to research next that Netherlands doens't have, we should be able to trade it for Engineering. This I think is our best course of research in the short term.
 
Yep, we were a bit unlucky.

I agree about trading with the Netherlands, though which tech should aim for? We already have paper that they don't have. Education?

EDIT: Although, are we seriously going to adopt pacifism, that doesn't suit too well with our domination goal?
 
Although, are we seriously going to adopt pacifism, that doesn't suit too well with our domination goal?
I definitely think we should adopt Pacifism for a good period of the mid-game. We will need those Great People to ensure that we are first in tech to enter the Industrial and Modern Ages.

I think the Domination push will come later rather than earlier. We need to settle key locations first where possible and then decide which areas to conquer once we have the tech lead and can afford to take the more militaristic civics onboard.
 
Either way is fine. Okay, so we adopt pacifism at what point? Other civic changes we need are resettlement (really nice and free bonus points) and representation (obviously with pacifism). So we should pack two of them together.
 
Nody: Can you please ensure that you set all espionage points to Netherlands as a matter of priority? I should have done this in my turn set, my bad.

Resettlement is nice enough, but I've never seen the need for it in my games personally. I prefer Viceroyalty typically, but happy to go with the group decision on the expansion civic category.
 
You should consider that resettlement gives you +2 stability points per founded city and they are permanent just like razing a city gives you -3 permanently. Thus there really isn't any point to adopt viceroyalty until later, since the bonus it gives is only temporaly. Trust me we will need those extra points.

EDIT: my bad too, completely forgot about the espionage. Well that was only couple of points wasted.
 
Everybody say after me: no more than 10 cities until you're ready for domination.:)
I often do Representation and Pacifism together (philosophy, bulb education, steal or trade for guilds, printing press, liberalism-->constitution). Your cities need more infrastructure first so I wouldn't change to pacifism any time soon.
 
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