ArsTechnica Review (12. Sep)

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EmpireOfCats

Death to Giant Robots
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2010/09/first-impressions-civilization-v.ars

Not a full review (they promise one "soon"), but this detail about the lack of data on how a battle will go:

This may annoy numbers-junkies, but does a 5 percent change in either directly really impact whether or not you'll attack? The new system gives you a much clearer idea of how things are likely to go.
Click to expand...

Uh-uh. More talk about things being "streamlined". I'm getting to hate that word.

EDIT: There might be one thing. Were we aware of this ratio yet:

The number of city-states that appear on each map is tied to the number of civs; for example, a map that starts with 4 civs has 8 city-states, 6 civs start with 12, and so on.
Click to expand...
 
What? I suggest you read your quote again, or even look at screenshots of the system he's refering to. He's saying that the new system is a lot better at predicting combat results, mainly because there is not the wide win-lose variance that there was in Civ 4.

Also, streamlined is only used in reference to the UI (Which I can't see any reason to be nervous about), and the new combat system. Remember, "streamlined" is not a synonym for "simplified". Streamlined only means that things are easier to understand and easier to do, not that there's less strategy involved.

Oh, and he spends a good portion of the preview (It's not a review) talking about how combat requires a lot more thought and is more fun. Doesn't really fit with this "streamlined/simplified" conspiracy theory that people keep talking about, no?
 
Yeah, "simplified" is the word we DO NOT want to hear. Streamlined is actually a good thing in almost any situation.

Thanks for posting this, I'm starving for some Civ V related stuff today!
 
The change feels subtle, since it's alerting you to all the same things that Civ has always been about, but it really becomes apparent how helpful it is as time passes and the game gets more complex.
Click to expand...

Don't be too worried about simplification. Streamlining, as others have said, is good, and does not lead to less complexity.
 
The city-state ratio appears to apply only to "Play-Now" and default advanced settings but you can choose to override it (i.e., pick an explicit number of city-states).
 
EmpireOfCats said:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2010/09/first-impressions-civilization-v.ars

Not a full review (they promise one "soon"), but this detail about the lack of data on how a battle will go:



Uh-uh. More talk about things being "streamlined". I'm getting to hate that word.

EDIT: There might be one thing. Were we aware of this ratio yet:
Click to expand...

Streamlined car

is it safe to say streamlined isn't bad (Karma gets insane MPG and it is also relatively fast, auto guys drool over this car)
 
Something being simple or streamlined isn't a bad thing, if the reviwer said this game reminds me of playing tiddleywinks then yeah it could be construed as a negative comment.
 
Yes, "streamlined" in the normal sense of the word is good. However, as some of you might one day have the dubious pleasure of finding out, it is also used as an euphemism -- companies "streamline" by firing people, and, more to the point, games "streamline" by taking out features. I hope you guys are right. But remember we already know that the diplomacy screen has been "streamlined" out of existence.

I guess we'll have to wait eight more days to find out, won't we.
 
I don't see how the diplomatie has been ''streamlined''.

At the worst, it's very close to Civ 4 with a few new feature and hopefully better AI. And if you are talkinga bout the fact that we don't see clearly what the other leader think of the player. Then it's a matter of opinion, I always though this was very stupid in Civ 4 since they are supposed to be trying to win just like you.
 
This preview seems to heavily imply that city states can in fact be destroyed outright. I sincerely hope that this is the case (there has been some debate on this issue).

Also the screens they're using look good. I'm diggin' the continental tilesets. Lots of flavor. Good stuff.

I hope that the player can warn AI civs off of city-states as the AI civs seem to do to the player in diplomacy. Sabre rattling is always a fun part of negotiations.
 
I hope you CAN'T raze city-states. There are quests that C-S's give you to liberate them if they are captured. If you capture one, you must live in fear that one of the AI civs will attempt to liberate it. Just razing it is a too easy solution to that risk.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
I hope you CAN'T raze city-states. There are quests that C-S's give you to liberate them if they are captured. If you capture one, you must live in fear that one of the AI civs will attempt to liberate it. Just razing it is a too easy solution to that risk.
Click to expand...

seems rather gamey to say "you can raze any other city, but not THAT one. They're like bed bugs, you just can't get rid of them."

This may annoy numbers-junkies, but does a 5 percent change in either directly really impact whether or not you'll attack? The new system gives you a much clearer idea of how things are likely to go.
Click to expand...

This. . . really annoys me. WTH was wrong with tell me 90% vs whatever "major victory" might meant to the computer.
 
Gath said:
This. . . really annoys me. WTH was wrong with tell me 90% vs whatever "major victory" might meant to the computer.
Click to expand...
How would you provide percentages? There is no "chance of winning".

We discussed this in an earlier thread: the descriptor is determined by comparing the amount of expected damage dealt vs expected damage received. They DO display all of the following: Expected damage dealt; expected damage received; descriptor describing the compared values. For ranged attacks, the descriptor is determined according to only the "damage dealt", since the attacker receives no damage.

Two evenly matched units will do ~3 points of damage to each other (a "Stalemate") - and there appears to be no more than a 1 (or possibly 2) point variation from the expected. So you will have all of the information needed to make an informed decision.
 
Don't know about streamlined, but Steamlined Civ V is certainly questionable.
 
Thyrwyn said:
How would you provide percentages? There is no "chance of winning".

We discussed this in an earlier thread: the descriptor is determined by comparing the amount of expected damage dealt vs expected damage received. They DO display all of the following: Expected damage dealt; expected damage received; descriptor describing the compared values. For ranged attacks, the descriptor is determined according to only the "damage dealt", since the attacker receives no damage.

Two evenly matched units will do ~3 points of damage to each other (a "Stalemate") - and there appears to be no more than a 1 (or possibly 2) point variation from the expected. So you will have all of the information needed to make an informed decision.
Click to expand...

Oh. I guess I hadn't heard about this part of the combat. Interesting.
 
bjbrains said:
What? I suggest you read your quote again, or even look at screenshots of the system he's refering to. He's saying that the new system is a lot better at predicting combat results, mainly because there is not the wide win-lose variance that there was in Civ 4.
Click to expand...

"You have advantage" is not more clear than "you have a 60% chance"
 
The predictor isn't always spot on, there's still some chance involved. Really it's giving you a fairly accurate predictor more than anything.

With unit promotions, policy buffs, wonder buffs, great generals, terrain, etc. there's a lot to calculate when two units collide or bombardment takes place.
 
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